Jump to content


Photo

is this real....deserves its own post.

  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

#1 mustgobigger

mustgobigger

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5345
  • Joined: 11 Jun 2007
  • Loc: Michigan

Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:50 PM

1920's ANTIQUE RUSSELL W. PORTER BRASS FIELD GARDEN TELESCOPE.
looks a lot different from the ones we are used to seeing.
Porter Telescope ?

#2 Ducky62

Ducky62

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 672
  • Joined: 31 Oct 2010
  • Loc: The ATL

Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:07 PM

Sure looks real in that case. I was just about to post in the other thread.Secondary is upside down.

#3 jjbird

jjbird

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • Posts: 216
  • Joined: 17 Jan 2006
  • Loc: Wisconsin

Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:08 PM

Besides the fact that the secondary/eyepiece holder assembly is installed backwards, this seems to have been cast from imprints and has some more modern looking features. There's a fake/repro look to it.
I could be wrong...

#4 rmollise

rmollise

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 15392
  • Joined: 06 Jul 2007

Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:25 PM

My verdict? Not real as in "not original."

#5 starman876

starman876

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5933
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2008
  • Loc: VA

Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:31 PM

Looks like it was made in India. Just looks to clean and the mirror looks like it was just recoated.

#6 bremms

bremms

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2528
  • Joined: 31 Aug 2012
  • Loc: SC

Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:39 PM

Some of it does look old, just stored. Look at the tripod and some of the parts. Pretty sure I saw a picture of this one long ago in a really old S&T(older than me) It may be a repro or partly restored. Tripod looks old and some of the parts look old.
If it's real, worth a LOT for sure. How much are those garden telescope repros? 50k??

#7 bremms

bremms

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2528
  • Joined: 31 Aug 2012
  • Loc: SC

Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:42 PM

Some of it does look old, just stored. Look at the tripod and some of the parts. Pretty sure I saw a picture of this one long ago in a really old S&T(older than me) It may be a repro or partly restored. Tripod looks old and some of the parts look old. If it can be verified as a one of a kind Porter scope? 100k maybe.
If it's real, worth a LOT for sure. How much are those garden telescope repros? 50k??

#8 starman876

starman876

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5933
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2008
  • Loc: VA

Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:47 PM

Rumors that there was a company selling replicas at NEAF last year

#9 Ducky62

Ducky62

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 672
  • Joined: 31 Oct 2010
  • Loc: The ATL

Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:55 PM

What is with the screws on the tripod? Are some of them just screw head shapes inscribed in the metal? That seems fake. I can't find any India copies on the 'net. You'd think they would try to copy more of it

#10 tim53

tim53

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9195
  • Joined: 17 Dec 2004
  • Loc: Highland Park, CA

Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:56 PM

It's definitely not a Garden Telescope. It doesn't look functional to me, even with the prism and eyepiece holder turned around.

Tim

#11 pbealo

pbealo

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 649
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006
  • Loc: New Hampshire

Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

1) yes these is a company selling Garden Telescope repros: but they do not look like this. See http://gardentelescopes.com/

2) This would be functional with the secondary holder turned around.

This looks very much like it could be a variant of a Garden Telescope. But that said: I have never seen anything like this. Even as early as 1919 Porter was looking at Garden Telescope ideas, I have one of his concept paintings from then, but they didn't look a thing like this!

#12 Da Bear

Da Bear

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 988
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2006
  • Loc: Kali-Forn-Ya

Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:55 PM

Wrong price, wrong patina.....show me the provenace or I'll assume it's a repro.

Da Bear

#13 starman876

starman876

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5933
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2008
  • Loc: VA

Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:19 PM

I emailed the guy and asked if was made in India. He told me I was not even close. Then I asked him if he could prove origin. Told me he did not appreciate my India question and would not provide any more information.

#14 starman876

starman876

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5933
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2008
  • Loc: VA

Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:29 PM

the response from the lister

"This telescope is definitely old, from the 1920s era I would estimate..It has been tucked away in the estate for decades....I thought it may be a prototype to Mr Porters garden scope, made before the famous one???...or possibly made by the Springfield Telescope makers of the 1920s era..I believe the collectors will have a better idea about the telescope...It has had a fair amount of interest"

#15 Joe Cepleur

Joe Cepleur

    Surveyor 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 1995
  • Joined: 18 Mar 2010
  • Loc: Dark North Woods

Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:52 PM

I asked him if he could prove origin. Told me he did not appreciate my India question and would not provide any more information.


Perfectly reasonable question you asked and the seller evaded. When the seller is a fake, his scope is best presumed to be a fake.

#16 JonH

JonH

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2012
  • Loc: Brisbane Australia

Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:47 AM

Like Da Bear says, the patina for 90 year old bronze or brass isnt right. But if you were going to fake a Porter why make something that looks so incomplete? Perhaps the leaves and sundial were just too complex, or maybe this was a trial made out of junk alloy that was around in the workshop as the lister states. In any event it lacks the grace and beauty of the real Garden scopes.

#17 mustgobigger

mustgobigger

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5345
  • Joined: 11 Jun 2007
  • Loc: Michigan

Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:53 AM

perhaps being only 1 hour away he will let me come look at it.

#18 iluxo

iluxo

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 331
  • Joined: 23 Sep 2008

Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:55 AM

Not even close. A real one is worth a small fortune (see link with pics)

http://www.philharri....net/porter.pdf
http://www.considine.net/mac/pgt/

Also

http://www.astrosurf...sell_porter.pdf

Then there is this modern homage to Porter's design:
http://www.prweb.com...rweb9057009.htm

#19 JonH

JonH

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2012
  • Loc: Brisbane Australia

Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:47 AM

You sound undecided Brian. Is there something that makes you think it might be the real deal?

#20 Rich (RLTYS)

Rich (RLTYS)

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 5107
  • Joined: 18 Dec 2004
  • Loc: New York (Long Island)

Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:49 AM

To me it dosen't look right. :question:

Rich (RLTYS)

#21 Joe Cepleur

Joe Cepleur

    Surveyor 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 1995
  • Joined: 18 Mar 2010
  • Loc: Dark North Woods

Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:12 AM

Since 1998, this seller has sold 300 items on eBay. He is hardly an expert in antiques.

#22 mconsidine

mconsidine

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 23
  • Joined: 16 Nov 2006

Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:37 AM

I believe it is made by an amateur named Don Patch from Springfield in the early 1930s. He advertised a Garden Telescope in Sci. Amer. in 1933 and I believe it was assembled from spare parts. The mirror cell has casting defects that show up in later-run PGTs, but not in earlier numbers.
Matt
(owner : 2 original Porter garden telescopes)

#23 rmollise

rmollise

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 15392
  • Joined: 06 Jul 2007

Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:07 AM

I sent a question to him regarding the provenance or at least age of this scope...we'll see what he says--if anything.

#24 bremms

bremms

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2528
  • Joined: 31 Aug 2012
  • Loc: SC

Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:09 AM

Finally looked at the pictures on a larger monitor. Very suspect. Some things do look like they might be vintage most do not. Decent looking mirror coating? The brass/ bronze has that look of Indian made stuff to be honest. Jury is still out
but I say fake. RWP would have signed this one. I found the old S&T and it was a Garden Telescope. Unless someone comes forward that can vouch for this scopes authenticity, it is a fake.
If it is real, it would be worth 50x the asking price.

#25 hottr6

hottr6

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2321
  • Joined: 28 Jun 2009
  • Loc: 7,500', Magdalena Mtns, NM

Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:24 AM

Looks like it was made in India.

In both India and China, there is a large cottage industry in replicating vintage and ancient scientific instruments. The largest market for these repros is the home market, which is a reason why we do not often see the repros for sale in the west.

There is often a lot of "maker's interpretation" when casting the repros, and so the repro may or may not be operable. E.g., because Zhang Heng's seismoscope was destroyed in the dark ages, it's internal mechanism was lost. Subsequent interpretations have differed wildly as to how it operated: The Chinese think it was a simple falling mass, the British a suspended pendulum, and the Americans, well they invoked the memory of Heath Robinson/Rube Goldberg and use a maze of cams, pulleys and levers that would be better suited to Ideal's "Mouse Trap Game" of the 1960s. Not a happy moment for American interpretive engineering.






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics