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Fracking & Light Pollution in PA

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#26 dpwoos

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 12:05 PM

It is a common misconception that producing a commodity locally means local lower prices. Commodity pricing is global, and only government price controls/export restrictions (all contrary to free market capitalism/socialism) will result in prices that are below market.

#27 csa/montana

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 12:13 PM

Folks, let's remain on the subject of LP, caused by fracking; not the political aspects of it.

Thanks! :)

#28 dpwoos

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:41 PM

I think you are confusing economics with politics.

#29 csrlice12

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:50 PM

Truthfully, you can't really split the two, they're related.....

#30 dpwoos

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:27 PM

I guess everything is related to everything somehow, and so what can be discussed and what can't? Is pointing out that the commodity market is global a political statement? I don't see how - it is simply an uncontroversial economic fact. Discussing whether or not it SHOULD be a global market can certainly be debated in a political context, but that never came up here.

#31 csa/montana

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:55 PM

When the discussion changes to "government price controls & exportation", this is carrying the discussion away from LP.

Now back to the LP caused by fracking.

#32 kfiscus

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:02 PM

In southeast Minnesota and Southwest Wisconsin, frac sand MINING threatens to become an LP (and dust) problem. The companies want to go 24/7 if they can.

#33 csa/montana

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:25 PM

Never would have thought of the dust problem, but defintely can see where that would just add to the overall LP. :(

#34 dpwoos

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:05 PM

Mitigating light pollution from fracking can be approached on (at least) two different fronts - 1) better lighting, and 2) less fracking. The second requires understanding something about the pricing structure of natural gas and petroleum, hence my post.

#35 DarkSkys

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:26 PM

Were doooooomed. :(

#36 csrlice12

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:39 AM

Here in Colorado, you can heat your house, run your car, and your lawnmower...all from the convenience of your Kitchen faucet!!

#37 George N

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:29 PM

Were doooooomed. :(


Maybe…..

Personally, if it gets as bad as all that, I’m moving full-time to Indian Lake NY. There is no gas under the Adirondacks and it’s nearly all a ‘gray zone’. Of course it’s also 20 below and cloudy at night most of the winter.

#38 Motokid600

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 05:13 PM

I got a place in Tunkhannock, PA. Used to be a small, quiet town. In the last few years its since become a boom town because of the gas. And its a mess. My skies went from green ito yellow quite easily.
Aaaand then came the gas line.. 50 feet next to my property. It.. was quite amazing actually. In just months they cleared thousands of acres of trees all the way up and over the mountain. But in the process I lost my second home. The property has gone to hell. I give it a few more months before the retaining wall of my lake blows out. They removed all the trees so there's nothing to hold the ground together. Just needs a good rain storm.
I'm sorry if that's off topic a bit but I wanted to share that. I'm really bumbed about it. Place was my childhood and now its destroyed. And there's nothing I can do. All for more fossil fuels... MORE.. FREAKING fossil fuel.

#39 George N

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:15 PM

I got a place in Tunkhannock, PA. ....... My skies went from green ito yellow quite easily.
.....in the process I lost my second home. .....Place was my childhood and now its destroyed. And there's nothing I can do. All for more fossil fuels...


I'm sorry to hear this. It's really sad. I've been to your town and it *was* a wonderful place.

Alas, I fear that you are describing the future of rural New York as well.

#40 Joe Bergeron

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:24 PM

I don't think I'll be able to stand it if they start fracking here. I'll have to get out. Witnessing the destruction day by day would be too depressing. For many years I was grateful there was nothing here that the extractive industries wanted. How naive. They will stop at nothing.

#41 herrointment

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:30 PM

I've decided to take a positive view of the situation.....when all our hills are carted away and pumped underground we will have wonderful unobstructed views of the horizon.

When the sand runs out or the price crashes it's dead certain they will be gone as quickly as they arrived and the lights will be extinguished.

Then the real work will begin.

#42 Joe Bergeron

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:52 AM

Luckily the price of natural gas has fallen enough that the frackers are no longer quite so eager to move into NY.

#43 George N

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:09 AM

I don't think I'll be able to stand it if they start fracking here. I'll have to get out. .....


Joe,

My plan is to move to the Adirondacks, or another nice dark place like North Korea….. oh wait, I mean Cuba! It should be nice there for about 5 years after the hardcore Commies leave and before the casino industry builds up too many lights.

#44 dkb

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:29 PM

Although PA looks just as bad in the light pollution map shown at the beginning of this thread this map shows the Bakken oil fields much more prominently and was taken just last year:
http://earthobservat...ew.php?id=79800

#45 Phillip Creed

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

Interesting feature--there's a substantial light pollution source that's equivalent to a town of 5,000-10,000 people about halfway between Caldwell and Woodsfield, OH. Last time I was there 10 years ago, there was NOTHING out there. Heck, we even had an observing site.

Anyone familiar with SE Ohio know what that could be? It's near the town of Summerfield.

Clear Skies,
Phil

#46 zippeee

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:27 PM

Although PA looks just as bad in the light pollution map shown at the beginning of this thread this map shows the Bakken oil fields much more prominently and was taken just last year:
http://earthobservat...ew.php?id=79800


Gee, reminds me of home :tonofbricks:

Seriously though, that Bakken development is mental!

#47 herrointment

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:33 PM

When there's big money involved the speed at which change occur boggles the mind.

My friend sold the farm for frac mining, just like everyone else. In 14 months it went from a quiet farm where you easily mistook the Milky Way for clouds to a giant hole with a bridge and a train loading facility that runs 24/7.

They did not want to sell but they had little recourse and are actually devastated by the results.

This happened in an area that has stayed basically unchanged in my lifetime.

The mile(s) long conveyor belt is in the approval stamping stage. More lights needed undoubtedly.

I no longer recognize the area. Everything that was familiar to me has vanished in little over a year.

#48 mountain monk

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 11:32 PM

Perhaps some of you will be gladdened by this. I was.

http://opinionator.b...les-a-ban-on...

Dark skies.

Jack

#49 Joe Bergeron

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 11:45 PM

Indeed I am.

#50 t.r.

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:57 AM

Wow...about time someone took a stand. I have no desire to be able to light my faucet on fire or to drink the eco-friendly chemicals!






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