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Oil on bottom of my TEC 160FL Objective

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#51 Scott in NC

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:01 AM

In case the lens still needs cleaning, in this Astromart thread, Roland Christen documents with photos, how he cleaned a 130EDF.

Cleaning a dirty lens

Jon


Thanks for sharing that interesting reading, Jon. I must have missed that AM thread, but have it bookmarked now for future reference.

#52 Kent10

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:18 PM

To add to my post above. I have been thinking about how to fold the Pec pad without getting finger oil on it. I have come up with these 2 ways.

1. a. Fold a single sheet of lens paper in half lengthwise, twice. Hold the sheet along its short ends only and do not touch the center.
b. Fold the resulting 3/4" wide strip in half by gently poking its center point.

2. I remove the pad holding it from a corner, and then gather the four corners together forming a small "balloon" of pad material.

#53 blueman

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:46 PM

I fold the pad and the Opti-wipes all the time. First thing, go down to the local camera shop and see if they sell the inexpensive cotton glove from handling photos and lenses. These work well and eliminate oils.
If not, just use sugical gloves. Put them on and then wash them with liquid soap and rinse. Dry with a clean towel and you will not have any oils, powder or whatever.
I use the corner of a folded Opti-Wipe to get to the edges of the lens. Pec-Pads will work, but I have to use Opti-Wipes afterward to clean up.

As you said, get all dust off first with air, if possible. Then if needed a VERY LIGHT wipe with a dampened opti-wipe will remove the rest.
Do not use too much fluid, it will run around the edge of the lens. Use just enough to get it clean.
Blueman

To add to my post above. I have been thinking about how to fold the Pec pad without getting finger oil on it. I have come up with these 2 ways.

1. a. Fold a single sheet of lens paper in half lengthwise, twice. Hold the sheet along its short ends only and do not touch the center.
b. Fold the resulting 3/4" wide strip in half by gently poking its center point.

2. I remove the pad holding it from a corner, and then gather the four corners together forming a small "balloon" of pad material.



#54 Kent10

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:16 PM

Thanks for the help, Blueman. I have these powder free gloves http://www.amazon.co...ils_o07_s00_i00

I haven't used them for anything yet so I don't know how they will feel. I shouldn't have to wash these, should I, if they are powder free or are there other things that could be on these gloves. It doesn't say they are sterile. I would have to be careful how I put them on so as not to contaminate them.

At least the bottom of my objective doesn't have much dust on it. Just that oil or whatever it is. Still not sure. The front of my objective has a very light coating of dust that you can see with a light at an angle but I think I will leave it for now. I will eventually want to clean it too but I don't need to keep it pristine. I hope I can get the bottom though looking like it was new.

Thanks again for all your help.

#55 steven40

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 06:01 PM

a few years ago I cleaned my AP160, and it went very well. Here's a link:

http://tech.groups.y...?threaded=1&l=1

Roland replied "You did it right!".


Steve

#56 Kent10

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 06:31 PM

Thanks Steve. I enjoyed reading about your cleaning experiences.

#57 teelgul

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:43 PM

http:// www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/photography/tips-solutions/how-clean-your-lens-a...
http://forums.dprevi...ms/post/3045081



Some like the above even advise against facial tissues due to presence of wood fibre.micro fibre may be better . caution with acetone especially near
Edge ,seal area as its a strong solvent , and will react with rubber ,plastic,paint .isopropanol may be better choice .for water soluble stain only ammonia free
Windex or spit will do the job !

#58 Kent10

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:57 AM

Thanks Teelgul. Yes acetone would be risky for me cleaning to the edge of the lens. I expect the Eclipse I bought which is pure methanol should be fine.

#59 Kent10

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:31 PM

Update:

I tried cleaning the bottom of the objective with Eclipse and Pec Pads but it is making it worse. I am not sure what is on the lens but oil or grease of some sort. It must be quite thick. When I clean it, it just moves it around and looks cloudy. I can buff it with a new micro fiber cloth (no fluid) but it takes a little pressure to get it to come out and it is very difficult to remove so I left it for now. And even with the MF cloth it isn't completely removing it. I am waiting on the Opto-Wipes that Roland C uses. They are supposed to be absorbent so maybe these will work better. It is going to be especially hard to clean around the edges. Does anyone think that ROR fluid might work better. I'll try these absorbent Opto-wipes first and if that doesn't work maybe ROR. What do you think? Thanks for any help.

#60 Jeff B

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:41 PM

Have you tried spit?

#61 Kent10

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:50 PM

Thanks Jeff. That is on my list of what to try. Spit with clean finger and then clean up quickly. I am guessing I should clean it up with the Eclipse and a clean wipe. I think I will try the Eclipse with the Opto-wipes first to see how that goes. I did try breathing on it and using the micro fiber cloth but that wasn't enough. Thanks again.

#62 EJN

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:10 PM

If oil is puddling at the bottom of the lens, I would check the oil pump.


Perhaps someone could post a youtube video on how to change the oil or re apply the oil.


You remove the drain bolt in the oil pan, let the old oil drip out. Replace
the drain bolt, add new oil, check the level with the dipstick.

#63 johnnyha

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:25 PM

I feel your pain Kent. One time, my Denkmeier 14s had a grease leak and that stuff is very tough to clean. My guess is the absorbent Opto-Wipes will fix you up.

#64 Kent10

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

Yes thanks Johnny. I am somewhat relieved however. When I first saw the streak, it was so perfectly formed that I thought it was a scratch and that is why I started cleaning it. I had to see what it was. At least it is not a scratch but what it is and how it got there ???? I hope the Opto wipes will work. I may have to use a little pressure to lift it off so we will see. I don't want to scrub.

#65 mgwhittle

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:36 PM

Forget the optiwipes and pecpads for the final wipe, they have their place in the cleaning process but not at the end when you are trying to get up the last of whatever it is on the lens. Just use plain white kleenex, one sheet per wipe for the final stage. Also I would not just try and clean a section of the lens but the whole lens, in my experience cleaning a section will just have you chasing around that final piece of residue from one area to another.

I will tell you what I use and have never had a problem either with damage or getting stuff off high end glass. After blowing off any dust, first clean with 91% isopropyl alcohol on a pecpad (or optiwipe), then blue windex with kleenex (one sheet per pass) then a pass of acetone on a pecpad. The acetone will leave a small residue at the point of the very last pass where you pull up the wipe. I then use my breath and single sheets of kleenex to get that last bit up.

The alcohol breaks down parts of the grime, the windex gets the other parts and with the kleenex gets it off the lens (something that will never happen if you use a pecpad), then the acetone takes care of residual cleaner and any remaining grime that the alcohol and ammonia in the windex didn't get and finally, your breath is an excellent distilled water to remove the very last remnants of the acetone.

And oh yeah....no scrubbing....all of this is with the truly slightest pressure. Let the solutions do the work of dislodging the grime, oil, whatever....the wipes are just to mop up what you have released from the lens.

#66 Kent10

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:48 PM

Wow Mark, thanks. That is quite the process. I worry about the acetone because of what is on the edges of the lens. I can see very small bits of felt maybe. I am not sure what it is but even with the Eclipse when I got close to the edge there was some black on the wipe. Of course the acetone could be used if you stay away from the edge. I will have to give this another try with the Opto-wipes once I receive them and then make some decisions. Do you like the Kleenex because it is even more absorbent than the Opto-wipes. Thanks again, Mark, for your detailed explanation.

#67 mgwhittle

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 03:30 PM

Pecpads are great for applying whatever cleaner and breaking free the contaminant, but in my opinion, plain white Kleenex does a much better job pulling the contaminant off the lens. As far as the acetone, if you have something already reacting to Eclipse then I would be cautious. That is disappointing if you cannot use it, it's a great final wipe. You don't need much of it, just a very small amount on a pecpad. It should be moist, not wet if that makes sense. As you wipe accross the surface it should dry instantly. In fact, Eclipse should be used the same way, if you swipe across the lens with Eclipse, it should be instantly dry. However, I am hesitant to say use any acetone if you are pulling black residue off already using the proper technique. Just to reemphasize the point, you are only using the very slightest amount of acetone or Eclipse to get rid of mostly the left over residue of the alcohol and windex.

#68 teelgul

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

kent
i think you should contact TEC, , and try sending the objective in its present condition with out further cleaning. let them have a look and see whats the oil streak or whatever and if necessary clean it. its unusual to have such a sticky stuff on the lens . may be its a minor thing ,or may be a leak but let TEC do it as i believe they stand for their products.may be even they overlooked it the first time. the objective is the heart and better to get the best possible help and be at peace with something we value so much
regards

#69 Kent10

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:09 PM

vaidya: Thanks for your advice. I am torn between sending it off again and doing it myself. But I have sent it to Yuri 2 times already and I worry about it in transit. Getting lost might be rare but dropping it could do harm even when packed so well. And the temperature shock problem that I have had might occur again. It happened when the scope was shipped to me from Illinois when I bought it used just a few months ago. It was $75 for cleaning and then with shipping both ways it turned out to be over $100. It would be nice just to have it professionally cleaned and be done with it if I didn't have to worry about the transit.

#70 Kent10

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:21 PM

OK everyone. I think I got somewhere with the cleaning. I like the Opto-pads a lot more but maybe I didn't give the Pec Pads enough of a chance. The Opto-pads are a lot thicker and they do absorb so I think that made the difference. I did have to press a little to get some of it off but I think it was fine. The lens is no longer cloudy but there are still some streaks along the edge and a few small marks elsewhere. The lens looks really good if viewed in normal light. It is only when I shine the flashlight on it that you can see all the streaks. I realize some say not to use the flashlight because you will always be disappointed.

So it is not perfect but from everything I have read I doubt it will affect my views at all and I am satisfied knowing I have a first rate scope. So now if only I would have the time to use it :)

It would be nice to know what the "gunk" is. I think it is coming from the edge because that is where it started and any time I got too close to the edge things would get worse so I stayed away from the edge after trying to clean it.

Thanks to everyone for all your advice. I really love this forum.

#71 jrbarnett

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:52 PM

Fog the lens with your breath and go over it with a PEC pad, and then check the surface again with a red flashlight. Breath fogging is always my final step whether cleaning objectives, correctors or eyepiece eye lenses. It does wonders for whatever reason. Just enough moisture to "float" the cleaning pad and remove stubborn, thin, residual streaks.

We still don't know, though, if your objective is leaking or the goop came from somewhere else, right? I'd keep a close eye on it.

- Jim

#72 Kent10

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:15 PM

Thanks Jim. I did use the fog on the lens trick as a last step. I think it helped but there were still some streaks of the "stuff" near the edge and a few elsewhere. To get those I think I would have had to rub a little harder and I was already tired. It was getting to the point where it was getting worse as I tried to get the "stuff" near the edge. So I told myself to stop before I made it worse yet.

You are right. I will keep an eye on it to see if any oil does leak. I will also have to use it in the cold but there will be no shock as far as I understand shock. I have always let it cool down and warm up gradually so I think this was just an unusual case of frost buildup that eventually melted and maybe the wet from the frost did something that I will still find out about in the future. Yuri had it for 2 weeks and couldn't find any problem though so he sent it back. That streak of "stuff" that I saw was quite long and thick. It was about an inch long and a quarter inch wide and had the same curve as the edge of the lens, was close to the edge but not right up to the edge. So being such a "perfect" size it doesn't appear to be a result of the melting of the frost but that is just a guess. It was quite sticky or gooey considering how hard it was to remove. Before today I had never touched the back of the objective.

So you use a red flashlight to check the surface. I used white light. Will have to try red sometime.

#73 johnnyha

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:14 AM

Those stubborn edge stains! This is one of the two perfect uses I have found for the controversial, mini-chamois tipped Lens Pen Pro. I use only a fresh new lens pen - you have to be very careful with them because the chamois can grab grit. But nothing can clean up the edges of a refractor lens quite so easily and thoroughly as a Mini Lens Pen Pro. It's quick, it's easy. They also work well for cleaning out binoviewer prisms. But again, when using a lens pen on expensive optics that I only clean once or twice a year, I make absolutely sure to use a brand spanking new, fresh virgin unused lens pen!

#74 Kent10

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:35 AM

As it turns out I have a brand new Nikon brand lens pen that I have been saving for a special occasion. Maybe I will try it out on the objective some day. I think many also recommend using only brand name ones too. I once had a very cheap one and the black particles on the cloth tip were very noticeable. I decided not to risk using it and threw it out.

#75 Yuri

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:50 AM

"I think Yuri would do himself a huge favor if he would post a pictorial guide on TEC's website showing how the TEC optical group is oiled, assembled and mounted in its cell. It might help alleviate some of the superstition about oil-spaced objectives. "

Jim,
the oiling techniques is kind of "know-how" to share on internet. And even if we would not count on this, the assembling, centering, sealing requires special equipment
including auto-collimator, etc. We also want to keep the immersion formula for internal use...
Many companies try to get into "oiled" design, but only two made it right.
Regards, Yuri






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