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Lasik Surgery and on/off axis sharpness

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#1 csrlice12

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:13 PM

Anyone else out there who's had Lasix surgery feel that on-axis is all we have anyways? Maybe due to the circular flap cut they made to the cornea? Even with my widefields, I have to move my eye or eyeball to keep the object sharp, once it moves a little, its not as sharp unless I look straight at it again. Astigmatism is not a problem for me according to the Eyedoc....Just curious if anyone else has had Lasik and how it affected their viewing....

#2 Gary Riley

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:27 PM

I've had lasik done in both eyes now for 10 years and it has affected by night vision a little. Mostly seeing stars with slight flares if not looking directly in central portion of eyepiece. I do have a little bit of astigmatism as well. Car lights and street lights can sometimes have a little bit of a "starburst" look to them. From what I have gathered this is one of the possible negative side effects from the procedure for some people.

#3 GeneT

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:09 PM

Because of my hobby of astronomy, I have put off having this surgery done. I would be interested in hearing from others who have had Lasik.

#4 ahopp

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:57 PM

I had it done last year. Daytime is incredible, 20/15. I do get way to much star burst at night. Not sure what to do about it. Surgeon does not seem to care.

Tony

#5 David Castillo

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:02 PM

According to my opthamologist, the 20/15(and sometimes greater) results are intentional. It is typical for scarring to happen 3 or 4 years on down the line that will yeild a 20/20 healing effect. As time goes by the great near-vision will wane. Nigh vision starburst patterns on bright lights happen, but usually decrease with healing. He also told me that the best correction achievable with present technology is 1/3 of a wavefront accuracy. This would explain why he wears glasses.
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#6 ahopp

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:15 PM

Is there eye wear that can reduce the starburst?

Tony

#7 csrlice12

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:19 PM

Actually, I am about 5 years postop and have no starbursts, and in the daylight, everything is focused. I really only notice it while looking in an eyepiece. I can track it looking directly at it while it goes off the edge and its fine, but if I look ahead and it starts to move from the center, before it even gets to 50% to the edge, it looses sharpness/contrast, if I look right at it again, it's sharp and good contrast; so it's not the scope or the eyepiece..

#8 ahopp

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:40 PM

Did you ever have the starbursts, and if so, how long before they went away?

Tony

#9 csrlice12

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:46 PM

didn't have starbursts. Starbursts are usually from RKE (Pie shaped cuts using a blade) and not Lasik (Laser). With the Lasik, I had a "Halo" at night for the first couple of years before it faded away. But, like I've said, at 1X everything is fine, in the scope, on-axis is all I've got, at least I can "follow" the object off the edge. I will clarify that this only happens with planets, and not DSOs. DSOs show up fine......

#10 berobertsmd

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:12 AM

One of the main factors in what you're noticing is pupillary size. During the day, your pupil is small, so even if you glance "off axis" you're still looking through the central region of the cornea, where's there's the best correction and least scarring.
After dark, your pupil is much larger,so when your gaze is diverted to the side slightly, now your looking through more of the edge of the cornea, where the flap was made, and there is some scarring and distortion.
I bought my first Dob from a man who had early Lasik surgery. At night, his vision was great looking straight on, but he said he could see the flap edge otherwise.
Supposedly some of newer forms of Laser surgery can minimize some of these problems.

#11 Quest

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:28 PM

Maybe I'm lucky because I got my Lasik surgery prior to getting my first telescope so I can't really comment on viewing prior to surgery vs. post-surgery. I can say it's the best thing I've done for myself in decades. I had terrible astigmatism and now, 5 years after surgery, still have 20/20 eyesight and could not be happier. I experienced a halo effect early on which gradually diminished and was completely gone within the first 8 months or so. Now, no more glasses and contacts or dry eyes and overnight camping at my dark sky location is so much better than camping with all my contact supplies.

Maybe I have some affects that are viewable through the eyepiece that wouldn't be there if I hadn't had the surgery but to me, everything looks great through the eyepiece.

#12 orion61

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:07 PM

Star Burst used to be REALLY bad when I was in the optical business and got popular in the 80's, they used to take radial cuts to do the correction. A buddy who was very near sighted had one done and it ruined it for Astronomy in his dominant eye, he chose not to do the other, now one lens is thick and the other thin. HE SAIS THERE WERE A BUNCH OF RAYS LIKE BICYCLE SPOKES coming from stars.
I don't have Astigmatism so I just took one lens out of my old pair of glasses, eye relief doesn't bother me and I can read my handset, Walking well thats another thing..
If I were going to do it I'd have a good talk to the Operating DR before the surgery, and dont do the Dominant
eye first

#13 berobertsmd

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:08 PM

I agree with Orion61. Definitely discuss astronomy, the technique of diverted gaze, and you concerns of the effects of a dialated pupil at night with your surgeon.
If you happen to have a corneal specialist in your area, they would be most familiar with latest techniques.
IMO, I'd stay away from the "Lasik bargin mills", but would choose a local eye surgeon known to do Lasik surgery frequently. I would not want the surgeon who does 1 LASER procedure a month. Also agree in doing your non-dominant eye first, try it out, then do dominant later.

#14 REC

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:57 PM

Try and search around for a complete in depth report on this subject that Sky & Telescope did back in 9/05.

#15 jturie

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:39 PM

Best of both worlds for me. I was a monovision candidate, had Lasik on only the left (bad) eye to correct to better than 20/20. I observe with my right. I've stuck the left in the EP and seem to notice the same effects as others have mentioned in this thread.

#16 derangedhermit

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:34 PM

I used to have very sharp vision when my eye doc finally got the combination of power and prism / astigmatism dialed in, and used high-end lenses.

I then got LASIK on both eyes. It is convenient. My night vision is much worse, even wearing glasses, than before.

#17 csrlice12

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:54 AM

Yes, a definite loss of night vision. Luckily not enough to affect night driving (at least I've not run over anybody....yet)

#18 Darenwh

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:36 AM

I had it done about six months ago. It's been great for me. I do see starbursts at night still when driving but they are very limited in the scope. I do still use my wide field eyepieces for planets but as I follow the planets with my central vision I do not see any adverse effects from the surgery. Next week I will be going in to have my dominant eye touched up as my vision is currently 20/35 in that eye. One thing I can say is colors are much more intense since the first surgery, especially star colors. Prior to the surgery red stars were hard for me to see. Now they are easy. Double stars showed very little color rendition, now it stands out well. It's like my eyes were operating more like they were when I first got in the hobby in the very early 80's. If I had the chance to go back to before I had the surgery would I? Yes, yes, and yes again.

Oh, and night vision, when driving, is much improved as well. Even with the star bursts I still see far better into darker areas on the side of the road and have no issues seeing the road itself.

#19 derangedhermit

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:27 PM

I had it done about six months ago. It's been great for me. I do see starbursts at night still when driving but they are very limited in the scope. I do still use my wide field eyepieces for planets but as I follow the planets with my central vision I do not see any adverse effects from the surgery. Next week I will be going in to have my dominant eye touched up as my vision is currently 20/35 in that eye. One thing I can say is colors are much more intense since the first surgery, especially star colors. Prior to the surgery red stars were hard for me to see. Now they are easy. Double stars showed very little color rendition, now it stands out well. It's like my eyes were operating more like they were when I first got in the hobby in the very early 80's. If I had the chance to go back to before I had the surgery would I? Yes, yes, and yes again.

Oh, and night vision, when driving, is much improved as well. Even with the star bursts I still see far better into darker areas on the side of the road and have no issues seeing the road itself.


I certainly won't question your personal experiences. I do wonder how well your prescription was fitted for glasses or contacts before the surgery.

#20 faltered

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:39 PM

Ive had my LASIK for 7 years. It was the greatest thing I have ever done. I did have astronomy observing problems for about 8-10 weeks - but after that everything is flawless.

The problems were the "halo" effect I would get on really bright stars. DSO's saw no change in the observations.

I would do it again in a heartbeat.

#21 KJL

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:27 PM

I hesitate to reopen this thread, but I wanted to ask if people here -- both with successful Lasik surgery or not -- could briefly state how much myopia and astigmatism was corrected, and a note as to how close "to the edge" your corneas were for the procedure?

I have very high myopia (basically -10 in both eyes), though with very low astigmatism and good corneal thickness (I think it was 550 microns). My corneal steepness was somewhere around 43, whatever that means. Also, my entrance pupil was around 6.25 mm (yay for 41mm Panoptic!).

I had one consult tell me that I was still within their comfort zone for that level of myopia, though I would likely have to return for a touch-up, and another tell me that because of my photography and astronomy hobby I would not be satisfied with the resulting "optical quality" even if he could get me to 20/20. Both consults admitted that they would not truly know what the impact of halos and lowered contrast might be until quite some time after the surgery, again for my high level of myopia.

Needless to say, I haven't sprung for it yet. But I hate glasses and contacts so much ....

#22 Gary Riley

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:14 PM

KJL,

I had LASIK surgery in both eyes for severe nearsightedness in 2003 at age 48. I was able to go without glasses, except for reading glasses, for approx. 2 years until my astigmatism gradually became worse. So now I have been wearing glasses for the past 7 years. But my lens are no where as thick as they used to be. Unfortunately, I do have the halo effect or starburst effect from bright lights and car lights at night. My astigmatism has gotten a little worse because I'm beginning to see flaring on starlight when I look thru my scopes with or without glasses. So, I'm going to the eye doctor soon to see about a new prescription.

Also, in my case, I developed cataracts shortly after having the LASIK and had to have them removed. Then about a year later had to have surgery for a detached retina in right eye then again for left eye about another year later. Doctor never would say if the LASIK had anything to do with any of my eye problems I developed later. So, I would say check things out very, very carefully before committing to the procedure and don't be afraid to ask lots of questions with your eye professional.

Just my two cents worth!
Gary

#23 derangedhermit

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:38 PM

Approx right -4.5x+1x180, left -5.0x+1x178. Was, before LASIK, wearing Zeiss mid-index lenses, and then Zeiss progressive lenses, and we dialed it in to where I was satisfied (and I'm picky) over a number of years. 55 year-old. Wore contacts many years ago.

It had been a couple years, and it was time for a new scrip (my eyes never quite settle down), so we did the exam and we talked about it, and he seemed unconcerned if I had LASIK done - "just find one of the good ones".

So in 2009 I had it done. I got monovision (non-dominant eye focuses at 18-24 inches - actually less nearsighted than before :grin:). Each eye was sharp immediately (20-15), although it took months for the brain to adapt to monovision. It is convenient. After the LASIK there have always been halos to some degree at night around bright lights, and my vision is back to around 20-20 or 20-25 in my right eye.

BTW, the doc who did it said I wouldn't have to wear glasses to drive any more. If you're middle-aged and choose monovision, then that may or may not be so. In Texas, you have to pass the seeing test with each eye. So I still have the "corrective lenses" mark on my DL - and they're right, I'm not safe driving at night without glasses - monovision, halos, smaller pupil.

For naked eye observing, or Telrad use, I'm better off closing my non-dominant eye, since it can't come close to focusing on the stars, and it just adds blur. I can dial it out fine with binocs.

You can see that monovision is an additional compromise for convenience' sake. Some people manage with monovision with no glasses and are very happy.

No one can decide for you. You know if you're picky about your vision. If you prize sharp vision, especially at night, then you are taking a real risk having LASIK done; they cannot get rid of the side-effects *if* they become an issue. If you're not picky about your vision, then you're more likely to be happy with the results. You may have some adjustments to make in visual observing.

It remains very convenient during the day, or when there's enough ambient light; I can see "well enough" for everyday things. It hasn't interfered with my photography hobby at all - in fact the view through the viewfinder of the Canon DSLR is much better sans glasses, and I don't find a need for eagle eyes either shooting or processing.

And, most important, I can finally wear Raybans. :cool:

If I had to do it over again, I'd still do it, I'd be more selective in who did it, and I would not have monovision; I think the blur from that is more distracting, or more often distracting, than the halos. I could drive at night without glasses, and I could use the Telrad better. I'd put up with readers of increasing power like us old folk are supposed to. :grin:

#24 KJL

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:35 AM

Thanks Gary and derangedhermit: that is wonderfully helpful information. Your experiences probably explain both consults' disclaimers and especially my second consult's outright recommendation not to get Lasik given the importance I give to optical quality.

The main limitation is the sheer amount of material that would be removed due to my high myopia, leading to much less predictable outcomes. The second consult was very clear that if my eyes had been a bit more or less steep (I can't remember which, I'm guessing steeper) then even he would be comfortable operating on my eyes. Given that he has operated on at least one S&T editor (he couldn't remember his name off-hand), I was quite assured of the accuracy of his diagnosis.

The same doctor confirmed my dry eyes that the first consult also identified, and which I had not been aware of. He hypothesized that my earlier issues with wearing contacts may well have been due to the dry eye. Therefore he inserted a couple silicone punctal plugs into my tear ducts last week and I will schedule a contact lens fitting with him soon. This is probably the wisest course of action for someone with strong correction looking to lose glasses.

Thanks again for your help. And by way of payback, look where microbots are going:

http://robohub.org/m...as-magnetica...

I will update once more after speaking again to the second doctor at the contact lens fitting.

- KJ

#25 derangedhermit

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:24 PM

Sounds like a wise choice. Good luck!

Lee






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