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DO BAADER HYERIONS COME CLOSE TO PENTAX XW

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#76 jrbarnett

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:56 PM

I like the XWs better than the Hyperions and better than the NAV-SWs, but...

I like the LVWs better than the XWs.

So no, no perfect eyepieces. But the question wasn't whether the XWs are perfect, but rather whether the Hyperions are close to the XWs. Hence my answer - most certainly NO! :grin:

- Jim

#77 george tatsis

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:52 PM

I'm glad that so many people enjoy the Pentax XWs, so it seems that someone needs to be a (slight) contrarian here.


Don't get me wrong, because they are very good eyepieces, and i could live with them. But with all the cheerleading going on, someone has to point out they aren't perfect, just very good.


:waytogo:

#78 ibase

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:12 AM

..Hyperions (5mm to 24mm) and use them on my 15in f5 Reflector with no issues.

They are good eyepieces and for the price you cant go wrong.

On a side by side the Hyperion 10mm vs Pentax 10mm XW (on Saturn and M13) the Pentax is a better eyepiece (overall) however the Hyperion was not a pushover.
.


+1 Hyperions are good values (especially on the C8 F/10) and have been popular for some time. Pentax belongs to the upper-tier in terms of optical performance and build, a step-up from Hyperions, and also worth saving for. All depends on how much $ one is willing to pony up. FWIW I had a Pentax XW7 and traded it for a Delos 6mm, and am a happy camper with the Delos.

Best,

#79 Arizona-Ken

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:03 AM

Hyperions were the darlings of this forum about 3 or 4 years ago for a modestly priced eyepiece. Now they have largely been supplanted by the ES eyepieces.

In my eyepiece journey I collected the 8mm, 13mm, 17mm, 21mm, 24mm, 31mm, and 36mm. In a f/10 SCT or a f/7.5 refractor they give great views.

I have since upgraded my eyepiece stable to include XWs, Panoptics, and a Nagler. These eyepieces give better views, but the Hyperions are great for 1/2 to 1/3 the price.

The advantage Hyperions still have over other similarly priced eyepieces is the performance with a 20 mm eye relief at all lengths. If you're an eyeglass wearer or just enjoy that longer eye relief, they still are a great choice for something between $100-$200.

Arizona Ken

#80 JayinUT

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:22 PM

I have own the 5mm Hyperion, the 8mm & 13mm Stratus, the 17mm & 21mm Stratus which are very close to the Hyperions. I enjoyed them and used them extensively for several years. I've moved on to the Pentax XW's in the 5mm, 7mm, 10mm and 14mm lenses. No, the Hyperions do not match the quality and view of the Pentax XW's. I then have a 27mm Panoptic that is my wide field finder, a 30mm Explore Scientific 82 degree EP that is my speciality wide field lens and I also own a 24mm ES 82 degree (just did a comparison vs the 27mm Panoptic on my blog) and a 20mm ES 68 degree.

Anyway, I find I use the 27mm Panoptic, the 20mm ES 68 and the 30mm ES 82 the most in that order. I may end up selling the 24mm ES 82 as I prefer the 27 Pan to it.

My point is if money is a concern, and you want good eye relief then the Hyperion's would serve and I would recommend them in the 5mm, 8mm (take your pick, you'll probably use the 8mm more than the 5mm) and the 13mm. Then the 21mm could be a finder. Or you could go with say the 8mm and the 13mm and then go with 24 ES 68 degree if they ever come back in stock. IF eye relief is not a concern than the Explore Scientific eyepieces would save you some money (for some) and provide a better view IMO. YMMV.

IF money isn't an issue, then go with the Pentax eyepieces. I started out with what I thought I could afford and then eventually moved up to the eyepieces I wanted in the Pentax. Many times I wish I had just bit the bullet so to say up front and got what I really wanted and had been done with buying and selling eyepieces. Plus I would have gotten grief only one time from the wife, not four or five times of "Your buying MORE eyepieces again? Don't you have enough?" Sometimes spouses just never understand the equipment thing. :grin:

#81 Scanning4Comets

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:10 PM

Think I have finally figured out what is going on with the 10mm and 7mm XW's in my scope! The negative FC in these eyepieces, (as seen on the Pentax XW graphs), go good with the positive FC in my scope cancelling everything out to show what "appears" to be a flat field!

Throw me a cookie now, I'll be good to go. :lol:

BTW, I just bought a 5mm Vixen LVW to add to the eyepiece family !!! :yay:

cheers,

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#82 Astrojensen

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:14 PM

This I have finally figured out what is going on with the 10mm and 7mm XW's in my scope! The negative FC in these eyepieces, (as seen on the Pentax XW graphs), go good with the positive FC in my scope cancelling everything out to show what "appears" to be a flat field!


:waytogo:

Exactly!


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

#83 GeneT

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:40 PM

No.

#84 GeneT

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:43 PM

Hyperions were the darlings of this forum about 3 or 4 years ago for a modestly priced eyepiece. Now they have largely been supplanted by the ES eyepieces.

In my eyepiece journey I collected the 8mm, 13mm, 17mm, 21mm, 24mm, 31mm, and 36mm. In a f/10 SCT or a f/7.5 refractor they give great views.

I have since upgraded my eyepiece stable to include XWs, Panoptics, and a Nagler. These eyepieces give better views, but the Hyperions are great for 1/2 to 1/3 the price.

The advantage Hyperions still have over other similarly priced eyepieces is the performance with a 20 mm eye relief at all lengths. If you're an eyeglass wearer or just enjoy that longer eye relief, they still are a great choice for something between $100-$200. Arizona Ken


Very well put! :applause:

#85 chboss

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:49 PM

Markus

Let us know what you think about the optical quality after the first light.
Might be an option to round out my arsenal at the high end of magnification. :D

best regards
Chris

#86 Scanning4Comets

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:58 PM

Will do Chris!

Next time I get out, (after these really cold temps go away), I'll be out there checking on Jupiter, some DSO's and a few other targets. I'll come back here after doing so and let you know what the 5mm Vixen LVW is like!

I have so many favorites here on CN, that I can no longer add this one, so I bookmarked this page, :cool:

Cheers,

#87 chboss

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 10:40 PM

Come to think maybe a new thread would be in order for a proper introduction since the original topic is about Hyperion vs. Pentax XW?

regards
Chris

#88 TexasRed

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:09 AM

Ah, but do the Pentax eyepieces have the eye relief of the Hyperions?

#89 coutleef

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:01 AM

Ah, but do the Pentax eyepieces have the eye relief of the Hyperions?


they do with 20mm ER

#90 russell23

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:35 AM

Ah, but do the Pentax eyepieces have the eye relief of the Hyperions?


Yes - lots of eyepiece lines have the same 20mm of eye relief as the Hyperions:

Pentax XW's
TV Delos
TV Radians
Meade HD-60's
Celestron X-cel LX
Astrotech Long Eye Relief

Dave

#91 Darren Drake

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:23 AM

Well I have the 17mm Hyperion and when I use it with a paracorr II in my f/4.4 I love the resulting image. The nice ER and sharp field stop and as I recall sharply defined stars near the edge make for a winner for me. I am surprised to hear from others that they are not at the level of the XWs but will do more investigating this observing season as I will have access to many of the Stratus eyepieces which are similar to the Hyperions.

#92 Starman81

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:29 PM

Well I have the 17mm Hyperion and when I use it with a paracorr II in my f/4.4 I love the resulting image. The nice ER and sharp field stop and as I recall sharply defined stars near the edge make for a winner for me. I am surprised to hear from others that they are not at the level of the XWs but will do more investigating this observing season as I will have access to many of the Stratus eyepieces which are similar to the Hyperions.


The 17mm might be the special case among the Hyperions; due to the sharp field stop you are not left straining to see edge of field. I first-lighted my 17mm Hyperion in a short session last week and the ergonomics and comfort were reminiscent of Pentax XW's, just very nice to use in the f/6 dob. If the rest of the line were the same, they would be a much more compelling choice for a lower-cost line of wide fields with 20mm ER.

#93 hfjacinto

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:35 PM

I used to own several of the Hyperions. IMO the 13MM and the 17MM were the best of the group. The 24MM was the worst while the 21MM was good on some scopes and not so good on others. If you own an SCT and need 20MM of eyerelief I would recommend the Hyperions. But being honest the ES 82* are sharper to the edge and better overall (except for eye relief)

#94 Darren Drake

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:51 PM

Has anyone ever done a detailed comparo of the 17 Hyperion to the 17 Delos? Also I wonder if the field curvature issue with a 20XW would sway someone enough to go with a 17 Hyperion (although not quite the same fl)instead of the XW...

#95 cjc

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:31 PM

I found that the 17mm Hyperion compared quite well with the 16mm ES68 in terms of view, but ergonomically they are very different. The ES is small and light, so much nicer to handle and more convenient being (just about) parfocal with my other (mainly ES) eyepieces.

#96 MRNUTTY

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:36 PM

Has anyone ever done a detailed comparo of the 17 Hyperion to the 17 Delos? Also I wonder if the field curvature issue with a 20XW would sway someone enough to go with a 17 Hyperion (although not quite the same fl)instead of the XW...


Hi Darren, a better replacement for the 20m XW will be a Delos 17mm. Hyperions, although good, are not up to the same league as these guys.

#97 csrlice12

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:55 PM

Yes, but then the Pentax's go "Boo" and the Hyperions run away as fast as they can.........

#98 Darren Drake

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:55 PM

Right but again maybe the 17 is an exception as maybe it is nearly as good as the Pentaxes or TVs? That's what I'm trying to find out...

#99 Scanning4Comets

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:29 PM

I just went through the same thing....well kinda. I had a 17mm Baader Hyperion before getting a few replacements and finally staying with a 14mm Denkmeier. I *was* going to get a 17mm Vixen LVW, but the 14mm Denkmeier, (which really works out as a 15mm / 70 degree eyepiece in my scope), is better.

The 17mm Hyperion showed a combination of coma, FC and some astigmatism near the edges in my 10" F/4.7 Newtonian. The aberrations would start at around the 70% mark and getting worse as you progress towards the edges. It will probably work a lot better in a long focal length scope....not sure, as I don't own one. The eye relief and comfort of the 17mm Hyperion in excellent IMO, but the edge correction in a fast scope isn't good at all. Images in the central FOV were pretty nice. It was a really good eyepiece on M-42 with my 2" Orion Ultrablock in my 2" extension tube.

The 14mm Denkmeier is way better and has excellent eye relief, it doesn't have eye placement issues,(it only blacks out if you get really really close to the lens, as ALL long ER eyepieces do), it has excellent transmission and barlows to optical nirvana. I had it trained on Jupiter using my 2" GSO ED barlow and the image of Jupiter was incredible. I almost got rid of it a few times because I LOVE to try many different eyepieces and I tried to justify my insanity by almost selling it off to try something new until I did a lot of research and realized that there is NOTHING that I would want to replace it with.

The 17mm Vixen LVW is a step up from the 17mm Hyperion and showed a bit more off axis coma than the 14mm Denk, but was miles better edge-wise than the 17mm Hyperion, and it showed tighter stars all over the view, (and it was coma because I tried re-focusing as one does when it is FC, so it wasn't FC because the tell-tale sign for coma was there), fan-shaped little comet-like stars with the fan pointing all towards the edge of the field stop all around. With FC, one can re-focus to fix it near the edges, while the stars in the central area get the FC back again. I've tried the "in between" focus thing with eyepieces that show strong FC and that doesn't cut it for me. I need to be right "in focus".

The 14mm Denkmeier shows extremely MILD coma, which doesn't take away from the views at all, so I kept that over getting the 17mm Vixen LVW. As far as the Orion Strats are concerned here, they are not even close to being in the same league as and I just mentioned. Off axis in a short FL scope, they are a total mess showing every aberration imaginable with major CA.

Another thing was that the 14mm Denkmeier and the 17mm Vixen LVW show pretty much the same field because the 14mm Denk is a 70 degree eyepiece,(it is listed at 65 degrees, but trust me, this EP is 70 degrees), (and really anywhere between a 14.5mm and a 15mm EP), and the 17mm Vixen LVW is a 65 degree eyepiece, so you'll get a bit more magnification with the same true FOV.

IMO, only the 17mm Vixen LVW can hang with the 20mm Pentax XW. The 17mm Vixen LVW showed a little bit of coma from the mirror and the 20mm XW to my eyes showed a slight bit of FC. The 20mm Pentax XW will have better transmission on DSO's. The 17mm Baader Hyperion edge-wise can't hang with the XW's.

Cheers,

#100 Starman81

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:30 PM

Has anyone ever done a detailed comparo of the 17 Hyperion to the 17 Delos? Also I wonder if the field curvature issue with a 20XW would sway someone enough to go with a 17 Hyperion (although not quite the same fl)instead of the XW...


Darren, I have a 13 Ethos and a 22 Nagler T4, a couple amazing eyepieces no doubt, but even those are not enough to get me to part with the XW 20 & 14. So I do not expect the Hyperion 17mm to do so in regards to the XW 20. The 20 & 14, though they are affected by FC, still have A LOT going for them that the rest of the 1.25" XW's have as well:

- excellent contrast/transmission
- cool tone with great color rendition
- most comfortable exit pupil ergonomics
- best design of adjustable eyecup
- relatively lightweight and not too big (this is specific to the 20 & 14)

Not to mention, the FC is cleaned up decently enough with a Paracorr, something a large number of fast dob owners already have. For those that don't, focus 1/3 of the way out from the center for a satisfactory view and the younger eyes the better for accomodation.






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