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#1 Brian Albin

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:44 PM

Between crater Lansberg and Montes Riphaeus, LO 4-125 H3 shows a wall similar in appearance to Rupes Recta. Has this wall been given a name?

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http://www.lpi.usra....iew/4125_h3.jpg

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http://www.lpi.usra....int/4125_h3.jpg

#2 NeilMac

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:12 PM

Awesome !!

#3 Greyhaven

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:38 PM

No name given in my Rukl's atlas location would be approx. 26.2w 2.s rukl's chart #42
nice catch
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#4 mikewirths

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:20 PM

I checked the LAC atlas but it only appears as a wrinkle ridge not a small scarp

http://www.lpi.usra....ac76/150dpi.jpg

I imaged this area a little while back it shows pretty well in this cropped image

Maybe Mardi knows the name, should post this on the lunar observing yahoo group or send it to Charles Wood

cool!!

Mike

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#5 mikewirths

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:21 PM

Brian I posted your observation on the lunar observing yahoo group. Danny Caes could not find any mention that it had a name, and hes the biggest lunar obsessed person that I know of! He thinks the people at the I.A.U should be made aware of this, maybe you will get a scarp named after you!!

Mike

#6 mikewirths

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:51 PM

Brian,

Danny has updated the moonwiki site with the un-named scarp with you as its discoverer!!!!

https://the-moon.wik...sberg/407096692

I think I smell an LPOD soon!!

CONGRATS!!

Mike

#7 Astrojensen

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:22 PM

Rupes Albin... Does have a good ring to it.


Clear skies!
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#8 photonovore

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:25 PM

No (prior- ;) ) name for this. It's too discreet of a feature--none of the old charts even hint at it. For good reason... i measured the width at the widest point and it's about 250meters on the LO image--that's half the width of the Alpine rille--so pretty much in the no-see-um class. The whole structure appears to be a narrow graben with the northend gaining elevation on the eastern side, enough to cast the floor in shadow... Reason I suspect this is that the north shadowed end and the southern, floor-illuminated end are uniform in width...suggesting similar structure (ie graben rather than an escarpment. To know for sure would take higher rez images than the LO.

#9 Brian Albin

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:29 PM

maybe you will get a scarp named after you!!


I hope not. That would be embarrassing. It's not like I did anything in astronomy.

It is fun though to look at the hi res photos and search for things nobody ever talks about.

#10 Brian Albin

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:33 PM

Hi Mardi,
Yes as you say, it may be a ditch instead of a single sided cliff. Yesterday it looked strictly like a cliff to me; today it looks more like a trough.

#11 Brian Albin

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:49 PM

Mike, that is a nice photo you made of it.
I have been wanting to ask you: Do you prefer your 18" or your 30" telescope for photographing the moon?

#12 Greyhaven

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:48 AM

Rukl's Atlas does show the object it's just not named.

#13 mikewirths

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:36 PM

Mardi- sounds like a well reasoned interpertation, I just did'nt think my image was high res enough to resolve down to 250M, maybe 300-400M in my best seeing image (not this one).

Brian, I use the 18" for all of my stuff, number one the 30 is onerous to transport and I think I would need almost perfect seeing to outdo the 18". But our region does get low subarcsecond seeing so perhaps one day. The seeing up at the observatory 9km east of us has median 0.45" seeeing.

cheers

Mike

#14 photonovore

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:57 AM

Mardi- sounds like a well reasoned interpertation, I just did'nt think my image was high res enough to resolve down to 250M, maybe 300-400M in my best seeing image (not this one).

Brian, I use the 18" for all of my stuff, number one the 30 is onerous to transport and I think I would need almost perfect seeing to outdo the 18". But our region does get low subarcsecond seeing so perhaps one day. The seeing up at the observatory 9km east of us has median 0.45" seeeing.

cheers

Mike


Hi Mike, thanks. I didn't measure the rez on your fine image for this task, i used the lopam image of this area--thinking the bigger the better for accuracy. :)

#15 Brian Albin

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:03 AM

I use the 18" for all of my stuff, number one the 30 is onerous to transport and I think I would need almost perfect seeing to outdo the 18".


I see. Thanks, Mike for the information.

#16 mikewirths

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 02:33 PM

Brian, Mardi and all,

After our discussion here I contacted a member of my hometown RASC chapter in Ottawa Ontario. Simon Hanmer is a structural geologist working with the Canadian Geological survey, but besides that he is an avid astronomer and is well loved by our club for the great talks he gives. I directed him to this thread to get his view on the graben structure, this was his response:

"This person has it right on the money, in my opinion ... this is exactly how I saw this feature. Interesting that the development of the shadow - and hence the increased elevation on the east side of the narrow graben - coincides with a slight, but very real change in azimuth of the graben faults. This change will have influenced the local stress field and **could** account for the change in fault behaviour. Remember that fault displacements are 3D, even when we observe the evidence for them in 2D, plus fault motions may vary along the length of the fault. A terrestrial example from your old home serves as an illustration. The topographic expression of the Eardly escarpement on the north side of the Ottawa Valley is clearly shorter in length than the Ottawa Graben that it is part of, and represents a greater uplift than along other parts of the valley fault system. I think we're looking at something similar n the lunar example."

So there you go! Good eyes Mardi :waytogo:

cheers

Mike

#17 Brian Albin

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:24 AM

I did not follow all of that. "a slight, but very real change in azimuth of the graben faults"
Did he mean a change in altitude? The line runs fairly straight; if he meant azimuth, to what was he referring?

Mostly he seems to be saying the darker northern half of the run has an uplifted plateau on the right (east) with a relatively lower plain on the west.
That is how it appears to me as well.
So while it is obviously a graben in it's southern extent, perhaps it is a wall in the northern half after all.
I should like to see it with a different lighting angle. I wish I were cleverer at navigating the orbital photo archive.

#18 photonovore

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:50 AM

I did not follow all of that. "a slight, but very real change in azimuth of the graben faults"
Did he mean a change in altitude? The line runs fairly straight; if he meant azimuth, to what was he referring?

Mostly he seems to be saying the darker northern half of the run has an uplifted plateau on the right (east) with a relatively lower plain on the west.
That is how it appears to me as well.
So while it is obviously a graben in it's southern extent, perhaps it is a wall in the northern half after all.
I should like to see it with a different lighting angle. I wish I were cleverer at navigating the orbital photo archive.


Azimuth is direction of the feature's trend line on the ground "by compass" so-to-speak. A relatively small but persistent variation often reflects a variation in subsurface composition/structure, which, in turn, can cause variations in the expression of the features visible morphology.

Pictures being worth a thousand words, maybe these will help clarify...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Azimuths shown. "Second" section at top; "right" section at bottom in this LOPAM image.

#19 Brian Albin

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:28 PM

Thank you Mardi. Once you draw the arrowed lines on there, I see that the change in direction is greater than I had noticed.

#20 photonovore

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:11 PM

See Friday's LPOD http://lpod.wikispac...m/March 8, 2013 for Chuck Wood's discussion of this specific feature... :)

#21 Brian Albin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:44 PM

It looks like Miss Jocelyn Serot used only 12 inches of aperture for her picture. A nice accomplishment.

#22 Brian Albin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:58 PM

Chuck Wood's NAC picture shows the shadow indicating the west wall to dwindle in the northern half. I had thought the elevation difference was caused by an eastern uplift, but now I think a settling or slumping of the western plain is more likely.

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#23 cpsTN

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:45 PM

This region of the Moon was the Lunar Photo of the Day on 03/07/13. Under the image for this day, Mr. Wood states that this is a mini-Straight Wall, similar to one south of Aristarchus, saying that this one is 34km long and 60-70m high. He states there is probably a relation of the two of them. You can read it here:

http://lpod.wikispac...m/March 7, 2013

#24 azure1961p

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 07:54 AM

Interesting Charles. Thanks for the added info.

Pete

#25 photonovore

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:56 AM

This region of the Moon was the Lunar Photo of the Day on 03/07/13. Under the image for this day, Mr. Wood states that this is a mini-Straight Wall, similar to one south of Aristarchus, saying that this one is 34km long and 60-70m high. He states there is probably a relation of the two of them. You can read it here:

http://lpod.wikispac...m/March 7, 2013


FYI, the above assessment was corrected by Woods the following day, March 8th; "... a graben, i.e., a tectonic rille. I have commented twice, yesterday calling it a fault (based on a QuickMap topo profile across a WAC image), and last month I reported that from LRO images that it was a narrow rille. From a plan view it is a rille/graben, the images commonly show the east side is higher as if it were a fault, and the topo cross-section (which I am not certain I completely believe) makes it a thin rille perched in the middle of a continuous rise. It is an unusual linear feature, definitely a rille, but also a shadow-casting elevation."






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