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Meteorite over Russia

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#26 jrbarnett

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:44 PM

Technically, while it was "over Russia" it was a meteor. The bits that hit the ground, though, became meteorites. It did partially come apart at some point as there are bits and pieces being reported around the region.

In any case, very cool...that they believed it was a meteor, I mean. We were worried when that top secret test missile went haywire shortly after launch.

:grin:

- Jim

#27 Ebyl

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:59 PM

Yeah, I knew someone would come in and correct that. I honestly couldn't be bothered to change the terminology. Can't be bothered now, either. A mod can edit it if they want - I really don't care.

On a better note...

"The Science Channel has announced the premiere of a new special about the Russian meteor titled “Russian Meteor Explosion" at 8pm on Saturday, Feb. 16."

http://blogs.discove...eor-mayhem.html

#28 careysub

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:00 PM

Technically, while it was "over Russia" it was a meteor. The bits that hit the ground, though, became meteorites. It did partially come apart at some point as there are bits and pieces being reported around the region.


A good way for people to keep this straight is that the "-ite" ending is what geologists use to identify minerals: pyrite, anthracite, quartzite, etc. A meteorite is a mineral specimen from space.

In any case, very cool...that they believed it was a meteor, I mean. We were worried when that top secret test missile went haywire shortly after launch.


The city (Chelyabinsk) just happened to be one of Russia's military cities, and one of its two nuclear weapon research and production sites (Sarov is the other).

#29 careysub

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:11 PM

According to that article they've already found 3 craters! I wonder how many of the meteorite hunters are already on a flight there?


I'd certainly love a sample of that one!!! Wonder how strict the laws are in Russia, for meteorite hunters?


Me 2, i wonder if they will find a boat load of fragments like they found from the Sikhote-Alin meteor.
Certainly hope the people are all ok, seen reports where over 1,000 were injured.


This bolide weighed 7000 tons according to NASA. About 30% of the Sikhote-Alin meteor was recovered (30 tons out of an estimated 100 tons). If they can approach that recovery rate then there is a lot of meteor material that can go on the market.

The rate won't be that high since Sikhote-Alin was iron, and easy to identify. But still, it is winter and rocks on snow or ice are easy to notice.

Really weird that all four of the largest known falls over land in the past 200 years or so are all in high Northern latitudes, and 3 in Siberia (Tunguska 1908, Sikhote-Alin 1947, Chelyabinsk 2013, and Whitehorse 2000.)

#30 careysub

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:16 PM

According to that article they've already found 3 craters! I wonder how many of the meteorite hunters are already on a flight there?


I'd certainly love a sample of that one!!! Wonder how strict the laws are in Russia, for meteorite hunters?


This is the New Russia! Everything is for sale if the right authority gets a cut.

There will be hundreds of tons of material recovered from this rock.

#31 StarWars

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:44 AM



Meteorite fragments hit Siberia, 950 hurt.. :o


http://www.upi.com/T...ents-hit-Sib...

#32 edwincjones

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:26 AM

Beware any meteorites being offered for sale from this new fall - they are probably fakes. It will take some time before genuine specimens show up on the collector market, if they do at all.

There are a few respected Russian meteorite dealers. I am contacting them now to find out what the laws are in Russia regarding this, and if any specimens have been found yet.

One lesson here - we need to keep funding our sky-watch programs. :)


Here you go Mike.... Buyers beware....

e-bay - http://www.ebay.com/...teor-fall-as...


Davio R.



WOW

<$1000US, and free shipping

or

maybe I should wait for Mike's sale

edj

#33 sealevel

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:08 AM

[/quote]WOW

$1000US, and free shipping

or

maybe I should wait for Mike's sale

edj [/quote]



Hi E.,
Did you notice the Auction's "lake" crater fire picture? Shameful!


Davio R.






#34 Ira

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:39 PM

I.want.a.piece.right.NOW!!

/Ira

#35 Glassthrower

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:42 PM

Here is an excellent page about the event with many links, photos, etc. Courtesy of Dr. Nick Gessler at Duke.

https://web.duke.edu...chelyabinsk.htm

#36 Dave M

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:15 AM

I find it rather interesting also that there`s been 3 large events occurring over Siberia.
Any information yet on the type of meteorite that it was ?
and will it officially be named Chelyabinsk ?

#37 ZielkeNightsky

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:52 PM

Well this just came on RIANOVOSTI

“This meteorite is an ordinary chondrite, it is a stony meteorite which contains some 10 percent of iron. It is most likely to be named Chebarkul meteorite,” Grohovsky said.

http://en.rian.ru/ru...ound-in-Icy-...

A great weekend indeed

Monday I'll go to bank and get some ruble's - Already cleaned up some space in the collection box.

#38 Glassthrower

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:22 PM

Chelyabinsk was a closed city as recently as 1994. The entire area is loaded with Soviet-era military facilities and nuclear sites. It is also one of the most contaminated places on Earth and the site of the terrible (but little-known) Kyshtym nuclear disaster. Much of the area is completely off-limits to foreigners or highly-radioactive. There is a better than even chance that very little or none of this meteorite will make it to the collector market outside Russia. I hope I am wrong and I would love to have a piece, but I am not holding my breath until I see more recoveries. Right now, if the supposed recoveries are indeed confirmed, then TKW is very small. Of course, this could change at any moment if a large mass is found or if many more smaller stones are found.

#39 Dave M

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:57 PM

Thanks! Lars :)

#40 careysub

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:48 PM

Chelyabinsk was a closed city as recently as 1994. The entire area is loaded with Soviet-era military facilities and nuclear sites. It is also one of the most contaminated places on Earth and the site of the terrible (but little-known) Kyshtym nuclear disaster. Much of the area is completely off-limits to foreigners or highly-radioactive. There is a better than even chance that very little or none of this meteorite will make it to the collector market outside Russia. I hope I am wrong and I would love to have a piece, but I am not holding my breath until I see more recoveries. Right now, if the supposed recoveries are indeed confirmed, then TKW is very small. Of course, this could change at any moment if a large mass is found or if many more smaller stones are found.


So far I have seen images of only one single tiny fragment recovered from the ice cover of the lake. This does not bode well for public recovery of extensive material.

#41 Dave M

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:56 PM

Interesting..
http://rt.com/news/m...rkul-urals-432/

#42 edwincjones

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:28 PM

I.want.a.piece.right.NOW!!

/Ira


I want a BIG piece-when the price drops on the tons of fragments recovered

hopefully

edj

#43 Glassthrower

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:03 PM

http://astrobob.area...y-meteorites...

See that link for some great up-close photos of the recovered fragments.

This is obviously an L or H chondrite of some sort, probably an L5 or H5, from the lack of plentiful chondrules, highly-recrystallized nature of the visible matrix, and the crust appearance. It's also apparently shocked enough to produce plentiful dark shock veins, which are visible in these photos and a few other photos I have seen. This reminds me a lot of Park Forest in visual appearances.

Now that we know this (that the body was chondritic in nature), there is expected to be MUCH more material on the ground than what has been announced as "recovered" so far. Expect to see "new" specimens trickle out onto the market (institutional and private) as anonymous finders bring their finds to market over time. There are already reports of larger recovered masses being secretly held by finders who are waiting for "top dollar" to offer their pieces.

So, I think we will see this meteorite available on the collector market at some point in the near future, but I bet it will not be cheap. I expect it to be an expensive fall to acquire, based on the circumstances surrounding it (mass media attention, major damages, etc) and the history of comparable meteorites on the market in the past.

Many questions still remain - what is the petrology and chemistry of this particular meteorite, what is the parent body (if any known), what was it's exact orbit, and what (if any) anomalous characteristics it may have.

This the kind of exciting thing that makes meteorites so interesting - and this is good stuff from that perspective. Meteorite nuts like myself live for these events. And thank our lucky stars that nobody was killed - and that makes this entire story a little more positive and not quite so foreboding. Because this is also a stark reminder of how precious and precarious our position on this planet is.

Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG

#44 Glassthrower

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:00 PM

A warning to the overly-eager collector :

I just checked eBay (USA ebay site, not the various international eBay sites) for fragments of the Chebarkul/Chelyabinsk meteorite.

I did see a handful of listings for items offered as pieces of this meteorite, but I would not feel confident in bidding on any of them. Some are obvious fakes (from the photos provided) and the few with good photos were from unknown sellers with short feedback histories and scant details in the listings. Also, the photos were obviously borrowed from official media reports and do not show any original photos of the material apparently being offered.

In other words, it's still a little too soon to trust anything being offered on the major auction sites. When we see specimens from known or trustworthy sources, then I'd feel more confident in acquiring some. Things to look for - IMCA credentials, Meteoritical Society membership, longevity in the meteorite community with a history of reliable offerings, sources well-known to veteran collectors, etc.

There is always the chance that some random person local to the fall area will register as a new user on eBay and offer a genuine piece of the meteorite with some blurry photos and a description that is lacking in many ways. A buyer just might get lucky. And that kind of thought is what every internet scammer preys upon. The odds don't look good enough yet for this collector/dealer.

Buyer beware at this point.

#45 csa/montana

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:30 PM

Well Mike; I'll be on your list for one, when you start aquiring some fragments! :jump:

#46 oblako

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:01 AM

Here's the Russian site http://www.avito.ru/...e?name=мет%D... that offers fragments. Some sellers admit they are not sure what they are selling. For example this listing http://www.avito.ru/...sli_da_to_zh... states:
"Is it a meteor, if "yes" I am waiting for your offer" Of course it is not a "meteor" :-) , and not a meteorite either.

And now I checked out EBAY auctions.
For example, this one http://www.ebay.com/...-02-2013-/33... is not a meteorite, an least not a stony one. I sent PM to the guy who sells it, but I doubt he will remove the auction.

#47 careysub

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:52 AM

From a New York Times article from today's paper:

"M3-Media, a financial news site, reported that under Russian law a person can gain legal title to a meteorite, but only if it is reported to the authorities and submitted to a laboratory for tests. The laboratory will charge 20 percent of the estimated value of the object for certification, the site reported, citing the Russian Academy of Sciences."

"But this is Russia, so the excitement became tinged with anxiety on Monday as unknown cars appeared, cruising the streets and bearing men who refused to answer questions but offered stacks of rubles worth hundreds, then thousands, of dollars for the fragments. Strangely, no authorities were anywhere in sight."

The second paragraph recalls a comment I made a few days ago on this thread to the effect that everything is for sale in the New Russia, as long as the appropriate authorities get a cut. These mysterious men no doubt have arranged the necessary "understandings".

#48 Glassthrower

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:14 PM

The NYT has a history of printing misinformation and bias against the private meteorite community. This has been addressed at length, in another forum, by most veteran members of the meteorite collector world.

This same article was brought up on that mailing list again today, and it is currently being discussed there - again. (*sigh*)

The rules are a little looser on that mailing list, and I can be a little looser with my words there than here, but here are some relevant excerpts from my rebuttals to the NYT errors and misrepresentations :

The NYT is...the same publication that put out that hit-piece against meteorites last year where all of us were declared as a "black market" of illegal activity. It was little else besides slanderous statements, half-truths, and propaganda...

I recall the IMCA even wrote an official statement to rebut the lies and errors in the NYT article. You know an article is really really bad when the meteorite community feels it necessary to put together and release an official rebuttal.

Of course, this NYT article will get picked up by tons of news wires and aggregators who will republish and churn it back out endlessly. While it's new, unknowing people will repost and "like" or "recommend" the article on Facebook, further spreading the misinformation via social media. It's like a dirty...virus and I'm sure I won't be the only one today playing "damage control" on Facebook with this latest NYT torpedo-job.

This type of event is what makes me excited to wake up every morning and be involved in some small way with the world of meteorites and meteoritics. It's the reason almost everyone reading this is a member of a mailing-list like this - because Cherbarkul is what meteorite falls are all about. This is good good stuff and I loathe to see another rehash of the slanderous BS put out into the media. So if you are reading this, and later on you see a discussion in a forum/list/site somewhere about this event and somebody is quoting or referencing these error-filled NYT articles - please chime in politely but firmly and correct the misconceptions. It will be tedious, but it's necessary.


and ...

The problem is, there are a few bad apples in the meteorite world. But they are an extreme minority in relation to the greater numbers of reputable and decent people involved with meteorites. That is true for every group of people on Earth, no matter how big or small. If one chooses to be biased, selective, and narrowly-focus on a single negative anecdote, then anything can be made to look bad. The art of the "spin"....


I tried to edit my comments to bring them into compliance with Cloudy Night's TOS. I hope I succeeded while getting message across. :)

Best regards,

MikeG

PS - in other words, private meteorite collecting and trading is NOT illegal and is far from it.

#49 Dave M

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:57 PM

Well Mike; I'll be on your list for one, when you start aquiring some fragments! :jump:


Make sure you get me one also :)

#50 ZielkeNightsky

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:43 PM

Yep, I'm definitely also in the market for a complete stone.
(Rather small I guess)

It will awesome to take such a stone out of vault and start tell stories, 10 years from now.






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