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Meet DA14's little brother?

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#1 Qwickdraw

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:12 AM

Is this a companion of DA14? Here is some incredible footage of a huge Russian meteorite explosion.

Web Link

#2 Jarad

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:00 AM

That's pretty cool - much better than the video on CNN that just shows the smoke trail afterward.

Jarad

#3 Qwickdraw

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:08 AM

That's pretty cool - much better than the video on CNN that just shows the smoke trail afterward.

Jarad


I would be curious of the trajectory to see if it is at all parallel with DA14's.

#4 Ebyl

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:15 AM

Some experts have been weighing in to say it does not have the proper trajectory to be connected with 2012 DA14. Others have said it's too early to know that for sure.

Most conjecture I've read regarding the meteor's trajectory puts it at somewhere between east to west and east to south. Assuming that's reasonably accurate, I don't see how it could be connected with 2012 DA14.

#5 deSitter

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:24 AM

I don't think there is a single person on the various cable news anchor staffs with even an elementary school understanding of science in general or astronomy in particular. At least the NY Times got the word - bolide - right. CNN stated METEOR SHOWER OVER RUSSIA. Pitiful!

-drl

#6 Ravenous

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:35 AM

Some experts have been weighing in to say it does not have the proper trajectory to be connected with 2012 DA14. Others have said it's too early to know that for sure.

They're probably not in the same orbit, if you think about it.

2012 DA14 will pass from the southern to northern hemisphere. This impact was in Russia, near Kazakhstan. If it was on the same orbit I doubt it would have been able to hit that for North - it would have struck somewhere much farther south, and most likely in the southern hemisphere itself.

#7 Ebyl

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:43 AM

"Astronomers at the Pulkovo Observatory outside St Petersburg say they believe the meteorite that crashed into the South Urals this morning was linked to the approach of the 2012DA14 asteroid, which is to make a close shave with the Earth at a distance of just 27,000 kilometers tonight."

That is the only report I've seen with anyone qualified going so far as to say they're linked. Doesn't mean there aren't others, but there is at least one, I guess. We'll see how it gets sorted out as more time passes.

#8 Jason H.

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:32 AM

"Meteor injures more than 900 in Russian city"

Washington Post Story

Meteorite Fragments Are Said to Rain Down on Siberia
New York Times Story

2013 Russian meteor event (wikipedia article gives very specific details on location and other relevant info.)
Wikipedia Article


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#9 deSitter

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:36 AM

BOOM!

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=1kvHl5Qcnzc

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#10 Jarad

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:03 AM

Ravenous nailed it. NASA has an update here. It says:

"According to NASA scientists, the trajectory of the Russian meteorite was significantly different than the trajectory of the asteroid 2012 DA14, making it a completely unrelated object. Information is still being collected about the Russian meteorite and analysis is preliminary at this point. In videos of the meteor, it is seen to pass from left to right in front of the rising sun, which means it was traveling from north to south. Asteroid DA14's trajectory is in the opposite direction, from south to north."

Jarad

#11 Qwickdraw

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:27 AM

Ravenous nailed it. NASA has an update here. It says:

"According to NASA scientists, the trajectory of the Russian meteorite was significantly different than the trajectory of the asteroid 2012 DA14, making it a completely unrelated object. Information is still being collected about the Russian meteorite and analysis is preliminary at this point. In videos of the meteor, it is seen to pass from left to right in front of the rising sun, which means it was traveling from north to south. Asteroid DA14's trajectory is in the opposite direction, from south to north."

Jarad


Ravenous may have gotten it right but for the wrong reasons.
No fault of Ravenous as we were all just speculating at the time and we didn't have as much data as we do now.

#12 Qwickdraw

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:35 AM

In modern history there has only been one recorded event of a person getting struck by a meteorite. I wonder with the roughly 1,000 reported injuries if that is about to change.

#13 deSitter

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:39 AM

I'm sure almost all of that is flying glass injury.

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#14 photonovore

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:53 AM

I ran this through Melosh's impact effects calculator and the smallest object traveling at 30km/sec (*very* fast, estimated by Russian Space agency according to wiki) entering at 45degrees composed of dense rock (3000kg/cubic meter) is 33 meter diameter weighing in at 51,000 metric tons--which produces a overpressure wave of about 1psi arriving about 40 seconds after the corresponding visual event. Changing the density to that of an iron object (8000kg/cu.meter) moves the diameter down to about 16 meters/17000 metric tons with the same expected overpressure of about 1psi (minimum to correspond with depicted damage). Energy of airburst between 1.5 (iron) and 4.5 (dense rock) megatons. Airburst occurs at 46,000ft for rock, 31000ft for iron.

Yet--the Russian Academy of Science declares it as a "ten ton" object (from wiki). There is no way i found to manipulate a ten ton anything into something that could cause the damage etc reported.

???

The Impact calculator is based on what I understand to be *the* paper on impact effect estimation... as a person interested in crater formation generally, i wonder why the massive contradiction between what is coming out of the media vis a vis mass/size vs. the observed effects on the ground...?

#15 Jarad

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:56 AM

Ravenous may have gotten it right but for the wrong reasons.


No, he nailed it right on. He noted that DA14's orbit is south to north, and correctly pointed out that in order to hit so far north in the northern hemisphere this bolide couldn't have been travelling in that direction. He didn't have the additional info that the smoke trail indicated the bolide was actually travelling north to south, but he figured out from the geometry of the earth that it could not be south to north.

Good attention to detail on his part. :bow:

Jarad

#16 deSitter

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:58 AM

Jeff Masters

http://classic.wunde...rs/article.html

-drl

#17 deSitter

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:09 PM

I think this was a scout ship and that DA14 will make a non-ballistic turn at 2:30. Klaatu barada nikto.

-drl

#18 PhilCo126

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:31 PM

A few "simple" rules:

These dark objects smaller than 50 meter are very hard to detect (even on detailed astro-photos)
Size of the object (leftover after re-entry) X 20 = roughly diameter impact crater
Spaceflight debris mostly burns up in West to East direction (the direction it's mostly launched - other than polar orbits)
Impacts happen all the time, check 2013 so far:
http://thelatestworl...ts.blogspot.be/

:graduate:

#19 Jason H.

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:36 PM

Regarding the title of this post, the timing is interesting. Here's an animation of DA 14

http://en.wikipedia....e:2012_DA14.ogg

and info on the orbital period (i.e. slower)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_DA14

I was going to make an analogy of a skater being overtaken by a car, but I don't want to get beaten up. It's interesting timing anyway. I guess in a half hour or later today we'll know if it's a swarm/cluster? :shrug:

I'm watching for flashes :lol: remembering 'Duck and cover' from the atomic age.

Jason H.

#20 Kaelin

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:43 PM

Collection of various videos of the meteorite fall in Russia:

http://www.guardian....-shakes-russian

First photo of crater in the Russian boondocks:

http://news.national...ussia-meteor...

#21 Glassthrower

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:11 PM

I recently spoke to a friend of mine who works at the University of Hawaii's institute of astronomy. One of the highly-placed directors there (who is new) is hostile towards meteoritics and openly insults meteoritics as not being relevant to science of astronomy. This Russian event makes that director sound like a fool.

I can't wait to see what is recovered. An event like this must have dropped meteorites. Here in the USA, we have entities like Galactic Analytics that could have confirmed the drop and plotted the strewnfield.

Beware any meteorites offered for sale from this fall - especially this early in the recovery. They will be fakes. It will take some time for genuine specimens to hit the market, if they do at all.

Best regards,

MikeG

PS - we better keep funding our "eyes on the skies" programs!

#22 Jason H.

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:48 PM

This video catches the cloud, then multiple sonic booms and echoes, smashing glass, car alarms going off, and gives a good sense of the scale and sense of urgency after the guys run down the block and image part of the other end of the trail and people coming out of buildings.

Here's the link.

Edit adding addtional short but wow sonic booms video link

I bet they fund asteroid searches now :lol:

Jason H.

#23 shawnhar

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:37 AM

Tunguska doesn't seem so mysterious anymore.
If this had happened over Moscow in the 70's we would have been nuked for sure.

#24 deSitter

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:11 AM

Good point, this sets to the books the active cause of that earlier event, and could possibly calibrate it - and in the very same part of the world, on the very day of a near miss - ... gives pause.

-drl

#25 Qwickdraw

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:05 AM

Ravenous may have gotten it right but for the wrong reasons.


No, he nailed it right on. He noted that DA14's orbit is south to north, and correctly pointed out that in order to hit so far north in the northern hemisphere this bolide couldn't have been travelling in that direction. He didn't have the additional info that the smoke trail indicated the bolide was actually travelling north to south, but he figured out from the geometry of the earth that it could not be south to north.

Good attention to detail on his part. :bow:

Jarad


Jarad,

Not to beat a dead horse but I respectfully disagree.
In his post Ravenous made no reference to Earth geometry references as a reason for them not being companions. His point was if it had been the same orbit as DA14 it would be very doubtful that it could have landed in the northern hemisphere. Key word here which I agree with is "doubtful ". I am not sure of all of the orbital elements nor do they matter for the purpose of this discussion as it was all speculation at the time but if the meteor would have been either leading or lagging DA14 by the correct amount to place it in a closer approach it could have been possible for Earth’s gravity to capture it and swing it around until it eventually made a northern hemisphere impact. Again and as Ravenous pointed out, this would be unlikely but IMO still possible.

Anyways, it seems enough data is now in to rule out this possiblity.






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