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Are Televue EPs water proof?

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#1 saptharishi

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:24 PM

I am wondering why televue have not made their EPs water proof? Even their premium lines. Are there any practical disadvantages? Or impact on performance?

#2 csrlice12

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:26 PM

Without the purging, they dont float, they just drop to the bottom of the bathtub till they drown...where they become eyepieces for Televue's new OceanScope.......

#3 Jim Romanski

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:39 PM

The only real advantage is to prevent internal fogging. I have seen some posts here on CN from observers in very humid areas that have had this happen. I've never had an eyepiece fog up on the inside and I've been observing for over 25 years.

Waterproofing is at the very bottom of my list of important qualities for an eyepiece. The only thing less important to me is whether an eyepiece is perceived to have a "cool" or "warm" color tone.

#4 johnnyha

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 03:23 PM

The only real advantage is to prevent internal fogging.


Another advantage to waterproofing is when you drop your eyepiece into water. The waterproof one will not be ruined.

#5 core

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 03:48 PM

Something that most won't have to deal with is the possibility of fungal growth (think high humidity tropical). I had a couple of TV smoothies from 2 decades back that are affected, half dozen SLR lenses (bigger issue as they as move air when focusing or zooming), polar scopes, numerous binos, and a C8. You could of course minimize the problem with dry cabinets, but a purged and sealed unit would help a long ways.

#6 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 03:54 PM

Yep, 30 years and no issues with eyepieces of any make. Including a WWII surplus eyepiece, and no telling where it had been.

#7 Paul G

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:53 PM

The only real advantage is to prevent internal fogging.


Another advantage to waterproofing is when you drop your eyepiece into water. The waterproof one will not be ruined.


That's happened many times to me while out observing. No, wait... ;)

I can see it being very important for spotting scopes, I use my Leica in the rain, carry it through swamps, etc. On the astro side I observe in an area that has horrible dew problems and have never had moisture inside a non-waterproof eyepiece.

#8 Lt 26

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:35 PM

My question has always been are the others waterproof. If so for how long. I think this is more of a gimmick. Don' t want no eyepieces that have been dunked in a tank first.

Dereck

#9 The Ardent

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:02 PM

Televue eyepieces are fine instruments valued by discriminating observers who treat their possessions with care. Who drops their Canon or SBIG camera in water?

#10 astro_baby

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:26 PM

Reduces risk of moisture ingress when cleaning

Bit of a safety for damp consitions

Cuts out internal fogging

Refuces risk of fungal growth

When you live in the UK and its wet a lot, rain can come out of nowhere, it can be humid, damp, foggy its no bad thang go have a bit of extra help.

Pentax XWs arent waerproof but they are weatherproof as well.

I admit its not the top priority when choosing an EP but it soes seem a sensible thing.

#11 saptharishi

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:38 PM

Right. I too felt that there may not be any 'must have' advantages of waterproofing EPs, given that they are always used with scopes that are not. Binos... Yes, it is required.

Accidentally dropping the EP in water may not be a strong enough for waterproofing :)

However, it can be a 'nice to have' in at least in higher priced EPs to avoid internal fogging. Again that will increase the cost of already costly EPs.

From the replies I can understand that there no disadvantages ( like reduced performance) due to waterproofing.

#12 Doug Culbertson

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:49 PM

My question has always been are the others waterproof. If so for how long. I think this is more of a gimmick. Don' t want no eyepieces that have been dunked in a tank first.

Dereck


Right, and if TV had introduced N2 purged eyepieces first, they would have been hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

#13 FirstSight

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:53 PM

The stewardess on the last flight I took said, as part of the preflight safety announcement: "In case of an unexpected water landing, those of you with Explore Scientific EPs in your carry-ons should use those for personal floatation devices. The rest of you will find a life vest under your seat..."
:praying:

#14 saptharishi

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:12 PM

Ha..ha..ha.... That was a good one. I will use the life vest :)

#15 meteorite

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:19 AM

My question has always been are the others waterproof. If so for how long. I think this is more of a gimmick. Don' t want no eyepieces that have been dunked in a tank first.

Dereck


Right, and if TV had introduced N2 purged eyepieces first, they would have been hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread.


Bingo!!!

#16 Astrojensen

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:17 AM

Right, and if TV had introduced N2 purged eyepieces first, they would have been hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread.



This. And other companies following the good example would be blamed for copying, lack of ingenuity (because they didn't do it first) and generally be laughed upon, because they didn't offer N2 purged waterproof eyepieces before TeleVue.

I surely don't see it as a sales gimmick. It's a genuinely useful feature in some situations and certain climes, for others, it's not an important thing, just as with so many other design parameters. Some are important to you, others not. Choose what you need.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

#17 FirstSight

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:49 AM

On one occasion the morning after an observing session afflicted by extremely heavy dew, I noticed that one of my Naglers I had used had fogged up internally (I think it was my 13T6). I simply unscrewed the lower barrel half from the upper black anodized aluminum half, gently dabbed with an optical cloth, and then let the respective halves finish drying a few minutes and screwed the two halves back together. You can safely use this same approach with all the T4s, T5s, and T6s, since the respective exposed lenses in each respective half are firmly held by retaining rings (and hence not at risk of coming loose or falling out), and these are the lens surfaces most likely vulnerable to internal fogging.

However, I cannot say whether this same tactic is as safely workable with either Panoptics or Ethos; I only have one Panoptics (24mm) which hasn't ever fogged up internally, and neither have any of my Ethos. What I can say is that I have an all-Televue eyepiece collection, and there have been plenty of nights when I've come home from a dew-prone session at our club's observing site with every single eyepiece I've used dripping-wet with moisture, and I've only ever had the one aforementioned instance of internal fogging. Whenever my EPs come home at all damp, I lay them out on the shelves of my study, both endcaps off, and let them (and their respective bolt cases) dry out overnight. I'll use the endcaps to prop them up so the bottom lens is open to air circulation.

I'm not here saying that ES's "nitrogen purged" internals are not a nice innovation, but rather that internal fogging from Televue's has proven (so far) to be a rather rare, and safely, easily manageable issue, and I observe in an often moist, dew-prone climate.

#18 Kutno

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:30 AM

I too felt that there may not be any 'must have' advantages of waterproofing EPs, given that they are always used with scopes that are not.


Good point!

#19 Kutno

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:00 AM

The only real advantage is to prevent internal fogging.


Another advantage to waterproofing is when you drop your eyepiece into water. The waterproof one will not be ruined.


:question: I wonder if they make something in the two ounce range, so I can use it as a sinker, the next time I go fishing for stripers?


All the best, Johnny! :)

#20 BillP

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:19 AM

I too felt that there may not be any 'must have' advantages of waterproofing EPs, given that they are always used with scopes that are not.


Good point!


I don't think this is true in all circumstances. For the many birders out there, especially those that enjoy their hobby in the field in a variety of weather conditions, there are a host of spotting scopes that are waterproof that use 1.25" eyepieces. So having the eyepiece component also waterproof is desired. In addition to birding, this also goes for the many shooters who use a target spotting scope and shoot in very humid or rain/high humidity conditions. So the foresight to make your eyepiece waterproof simply opens up their potential use in other hobbies where this feature is very much desired and a real plus. True it may be rare need for astronomical use, both this is not the sole use for an eyepiece.

#21 saptharishi

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

True it may not be rare need for astronomical use, both this is not the sole use for an eyepiece.


I agree. Was saying it more from the point of view of astronomical use.

#22 Paul G

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:09 AM

The stewardess on the last flight I took said, as part of the preflight safety announcement: "In case of an unexpected water landing, those of you with Explore Scientific EPs in your carry-ons should use those for personal floatation devices. The rest of you will find a life vest under your seat..."
:praying:


That warning always cracks me up. I figure if we hit the water at 400 mph in a couple of days we'll all be floating anyway.

#23 FirstSight

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:24 AM

The stewardess on the last flight I took said, as part of the preflight safety announcement: "In case of an unexpected water landing, those of you with Explore Scientific EPs in your carry-ons should use those for personal floatation devices. The rest of you will find a life vest under your seat..."
:praying:


That warning always cracks me up. I figure if we hit the water at 400 mph in a couple of days we'll all be floating anyway.


I don't want to drift too far off-topic with this tangent, but on an actual Southwest Airlines Denver-to-Salt Lake City flight in January, the stewardess doing the preflight safety announcement quipped: "In case our flight unexpectedly turns into a cruise..." She didn't say anything about nitrogen-purged eyepieces being potential floatation devices, however.

#24 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:38 AM

My question has always been are the others waterproof. If so for how long. I think this is more of a gimmick. Don' t want no eyepieces that have been dunked in a tank first.

Dereck


Right, and if TV had introduced N2 purged eyepieces first, they would have been hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread.


Humm...

The reality is that many of the things that TeleVue introduced have been the "greatest thing since sliced bread." The Naglers transformed the eyepiece world and it was not long before Meade had copied them. Likewise with the TeleVue Widefields which were the predecessors to the Panoptic line. The Ethos line was soon copied. For the Newtonian owner, the Paracorr has transformed the what is possible. F/4 and now F/3 Newtonians could not exist they way they do without the Paracorr.

The reason those inexpensive and quite good Explore Scientific eyepieces exist is because TeleVue led the way. Meade and Explore Scientific certainly seemed to think the TeleVue innovations were the "greatest things since sliced bread."

There are probably advantages to sealed eyepieces for astronomy though they are not of earth shattering value. If the telescope one is using is waterproof and sealed, sealed eyepiece are highly desirable but even the Pentax eyepieces designed with spotting scopes in mind are more on the splash proof side. And too, if you look on the binocular forum they will point out that in the long run, unless one is using metal to metal seals like they do in the high vacuum systms, diffusion of the gases through the seals means they do not offer the protection one thinks they do...

Jon

#25 BillP

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:30 PM

On one occasion the morning after an observing session afflicted by extremely heavy dew, I noticed that one of my Naglers I had used had fogged up internally (I think it was my 13T6).


I had similar happen to me. Was out camping in Maryland and with a short tube Newt and eyepieces. Around 2am the evening air got moist enough that ALL eyepieces were dewed inside and out. The main mirror of the scope was still fine, although the scope was dripping wet on the tube from the dew. If I had a purged eyepiece I probably could have continued to view by simply wiping dry the external surfaces. But this stopped me dead in my tracks that evening.

When I used to hunt had similar issues with rifle scopes until I moved to a sealed and purged variety.

So IMO really depends more on your observing habit and location as to whether sealed and purged eyepieces for astronomy might be a necessary item or something useless for an observer. So not really about the eyepiece but about the observer. I for one am very glad that ES has innovated here and brought us sealed and purged optics at a reasonable price. While others have done it in the past, like the splashproof XWs, IMO ES has really been the innovator for this feature set.

But should TV do this? I don't think so because it is not their niche place in the market. Plus would make them look like followers which I'm sure they don't want. So doubt they ever will. And even if they did, would be a hard compete against the very much less expensive ES offerings, so don't think any sealing/purging addition would do anything for them other than raise their prices and more hurt rather than help their sales.






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