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14mm Delos just arrived!

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#1 Phillip Creed

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:40 AM

As part of my desire to re-configure my line-up from ultra- and hyper-wides to superwides, I've got the one eyepiece I've been most eager to try out--the 14mm Delos.

My premier eyepeice for the longest time was a 13T6 Nagler, but my astigmatism got to the point where I couldn't use it comfortably without (or with) glasses. So I got a 13mm Ethos, which had sufficient eye relief, but I was always straining to see the field stop. A lot of times I noticed I was being distracted by the massively-wide field stop, and I noticed that whenever I used a 70-deg AFOV eyepiece like a Pentax XW, everything just seemed far more comfortable and "there". So I reconfigured the line-up.

The question was what to do with the eyepiece closest to 13mm, which hits the "sweet spot" in most f/4.5 to f/6 Dobs. I decided to go with the 14mm Delos, because (a) I wanted the eye relief. Having up to 20mm of ER never hurts, (b) the 14XW has field curvature issues, so I took a chance that Televue wouldn't have those demons in the Delos line, which I can buy because © the 10mm Delos is just stunningly sharp and as part of a Televue line-up that's built "from the ground up" vs. matched to a spotting scope, it's reasonable to assume the same performance criteria are valid throughout the line-up, (d) the 14mm Delos' 17.3mm field stop very closely mimics the 17.6mm of my old 13T6, and (e) the 12T4 simply doesn't work that well w/o a Paracorr. As far as I'm concerned, I can't get a T4 without spending the extra money on a Paracorr, while I've found that the T5's, T6's and the Ethoi are more than sharp enough w/o a Paracorr for my tastes at f/5.

Naturally, it's cloudy here in NE Ohio (winter sky cover here typically is 80% or more), so it'll probably be a while before I get "first light" on the 14D. I'll keep everyone posted.

Clear Skies,
Phil

#2 Dave M

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:46 PM

Excellent line-up Phil, Congrats!
I`m looking foreward to getting some views through the
two Delos`s.

#3 Aquarist

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:03 PM

I too would be interested in getting further impressions!!!

#4 JayinUT

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:10 PM

I'll be curious to read your report Phil. I have the 14mm Pentax XW and its curvature with my Paracorr doesn't bother me a bit. Again though, looking forward to your report as I use a 14" F4.6 scope.

#5 Scanning4Comets

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:57 PM

Congrats on the new glass Phil! Pics please! Tease us all with nice pics of the EP and huge glass ! :yay: I also want a report on my desk in the morning! :lol: Would really like to know how it is compared to the 14mm XW and 14mm Denkmeier!

Cheers,

#6 Starman81

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:06 PM

Phil, I wish you had access to the XW 14 or Denk 14 or even the LVW 13 for a shootout with the Delos. Nonetheless, I'm looking forward to your findings on the 14 Delos.

#7 russell23

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:31 PM

Phil, I wish you had access to the XW 14 or Denk 14 or even the LVW 13 for a shootout with the Delos. Nonetheless, I'm looking forward to your findings on the 14 Delos.


14mm Delos vs. 14mm XW vs. 14mm Denkmeier vs. 13mm LVW ... I say Ditka wins that match!

#8 SteveG

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:46 PM

Good post Phil. I'm in the process of doing the same exact thing you are. I won't need to use glasses at that focal length, but I'm finding I enjoy 70* eyepieces best (with long eye relief). I might end up with the Pentax, because I do use a Paracorr, but I'm interested in the Delos as well.

#9 GeneT

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:06 PM

I decided to go with the 14mm Delos


I love mine. I also own the 10, 8 and 6.

#10 SeattleStarGazer

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:16 PM

I have been thinking about this. I have 3 Ethoi, but I have to use a Dioptrx with my astigmatism to see anywhere near the apparent FOV and so have to do a lot of switching as I change eyepieces. Plus i kinda get lost in that huge view. Although it is nice to observe without glasses it's a little bit of a hassle too. I got a Delos 17.3 and I really liked the nice framing of an object and that I was able to see it all with my glasses on. So was thinking of getting one or two more Delos before observing season really hits in a couple months.

#11 Phillip Creed

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:36 AM

Nothing but snow and clouds here, so no first light. Weather around here is usually atrocious in the wintertime, and the next stretch of days looks like no exception.

My test chamber's going to be fairly brutal--an 8" f/4.9 w/o Paracorr. We'll see how it works when the skies clear.

Clear Skies,
Phil

#12 Chucky

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:05 AM

<< so it'll probably be a while before I get "first light" on the 14D. >>

Phil, anxious to look through the thing down at Calhoun!!! Hope all is well.

#13 GeneT

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:05 PM

I have been thinking about this. I have 3 Ethoi, but I have to use a Dioptrx with my astigmatism to see anywhere near the apparent FOV and so have to do a lot of switching as I change eyepieces. Plus i kinda get lost in that huge view. Although it is nice to observe without glasses it's a little bit of a hassle too. I got a Delos 17.3 and I really liked the nice framing of an object and that I was able to see it all with my glasses on. So was thinking of getting one or two more Delos before observing season really hits in a couple months.


Several years ago, I pushed eye relief to number three in what I want in an eyepiece. I have found that with Naglers, you need at least 17mm of eye relief to view while wearing glasses. However, 19 or 20 is even better. The Delos meets that criteria. So does the 31, 22, Naglers. The 12 Nagler has 17mm of eye relief which is barely enough for use while wearing glasses.

#14 Scanning4Comets

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:30 PM

If you can't test it because of the weather now, how about a few teaser pics next to other eyepieces to show the scale?

Maybe a few eye lens shots for us eyepiece nuts? :lol:

Cheers,

#15 Dave M

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:05 PM

Nothing but snow and clouds here, so no first light. Weather around here is usually atrocious in the wintertime, and the next stretch of days looks like no exception.

My test chamber's going to be fairly brutal--an 8" f/4.9 w/o Paracorr. We'll see how it works when the skies clear.

Clear Skies,
Phil


Actually looking at Clear Sky Chart it looks like its going to be clear tonight :grin:

#16 Scanning4Comets

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:16 PM

It was clear out for a bit last night, but not my idea of fun feeling like -19C !!! I *do* get out myself when it's this cold, but for no longer than 1 hour.

:coldday: :shakecane: :fishing:

Cheers,

#17 Phillip Creed

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

Between the clouds, I just got a very, very quick peek at the moon in the fading hours of day with the 14mm Delos in the 8" f/4.9.

First impressions:

(1) Very sharp on and off-axis. It's a Televue. In other shocking news, Lake Erie is moist.

(2) I'm grateful that the Orion 8" f/4.9 is a dual photo/visual instrument. These tend to require extension tubes to get most eyepieces to focus. Most. The 14mm Delos, though, requires significantly more infocus than the 10mm Delos, so I just took off the extension tube. I don't know the exact amount, but it's not a smidge; it's a lot. Definitely more infocus than a 30ES-82.

3. Slight softness near the extreme edge of the FOV (>97% out), manifesting itself in a tiny bit less detail in shadows around the craters and along the terminator. I don't know if it's a slight field curvature, off-axis astimgatism or--what I suspect--coma from the mirror itself. I had no stars to test for any of these aberrations; maybe later on tonight if I get a viewing window I could narrow it down. Don't get the impression it's "mushy" at the edges. Anything but, and this is w/o a Paracorr. It's much sharper near the edges than a T4 Nagler w/o a Paracorr at f/4.9.

(4) I had no difficulty holding the exit pupil. The 20mm of eye relief is actually a tiny bit *too* much for my eyeglasses, but the adjustable housing makes for a quick fix. The exit pupil is a bit more difficult to hold than a Pentax XW or my 22LVW, but nowhere near as finicky as a 12T4 or 17T4.

(5) Um, in the world of hyper-wide 100- and 120-deg eyepieces, it's easy to forget that 72-deg AFOV is still a wide-angle eyepiece. It "feels" like more than 72-deg AFOV; maybe it's having plentiful eye relief that does that. I definitely felt a 17T4 had a larger AFOV than my old 13T6, even though they were both 82-deg AFOV.

Clear Skies,
Phil

#18 coutleef

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:00 PM

Between the clouds, I just got a very, very quick peek at the moon in the fading hours of day with the 14mm Delos in the 8" f/4.9.

First impressions:

(1) Very sharp on and off-axis. It's a Televue. In other shocking news, Lake Erie is moist.

(2) I'm grateful that the Orion 8" f/4.9 is a dual photo/visual instrument. These tend to require extension tubes to get most eyepieces to focus. Most. The 14mm Delos, though, requires significantly more infocus than the 10mm Delos, so I just took off the extension tube. I don't know the exact amount, but it's not a smidge; it's a lot. Definitely more infocus than a 30ES-82.

3. Slight softness near the extreme edge of the FOV (>97% out), manifesting itself in a tiny bit less detail in shadows around the craters and along the terminator. I don't know if it's a slight field curvature, off-axis astimgatism or--what I suspect--coma from the mirror itself. I had no stars to test for any of these aberrations; maybe later on tonight if I get a viewing window I could narrow it down. Don't get the impression it's "mushy" at the edges. Anything but, and this is w/o a Paracorr. It's much sharper near the edges than a T4 Nagler w/o a Paracorr at f/4.9.

(4) I had no difficulty holding the exit pupil. The 20mm of eye relief is actually a tiny bit *too* much for my eyeglasses, but the adjustable housing makes for a quick fix. The exit pupil is a bit more difficult to hold than a Pentax XW or my 22LVW, but nowhere near as finicky as a 12T4 or 17T4.

(5) Um, in the world of hyper-wide 100- and 120-deg eyepieces, it's easy to forget that 72-deg AFOV is still a wide-angle eyepiece. It "feels" like more than 72-deg AFOV; maybe it's having plentiful eye relief that does that. I definitely felt a 17T4 had a larger AFOV than my old 13T6, even though they were both 82-deg AFOV.

Clear Skies,
Phil


Sounds you will be satisfied with the Delos. Probably that what you saw is related to coma. I agree, 72 degrees is wide enough and very pleasant

Glad you found what you needed

#19 ibase

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:58 PM

Great 1st light report, thanks for posting!
Glad that you like your Delos. The 6mm in the stall is definitely a keeper and it feels good owning one. It's the new kid on the block, w/shiniest new-tech coatings.

Best,

#20 Scanning4Comets

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:51 PM

Phil,

How long was the scope cooled for, etc? Just curious as it does have an effect on viewing, and eyepieces, etc.

The exit pupil is a bit more difficult to hold than a Pentax XW or my 22LVW, but nowhere near as finicky as a 12T4 or 17T4.



I agree on holding the exit pupil on the Delos compared to the XW. To me the XW is a lot easier to hold and I leave the eye cups of my XW's in the full "down" position.....no problems doing that on the XW's.....I couldn't ever do that with the 6mm Delos I owned, which is now owned by Hernando.

Cheers,

#21 Phillip Creed

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 06:48 AM

This ol' bear has to tend to his cubs, so once the children were settled in, I brought out the 8" and the 12" scopes, both at f/4.9 and w/o Paracorr for a limited test with the 14mm Delos.

It was a short test, but enough of one. It's an amazing eyepiece.

My first premier eyepiece was the 13T6, and in a lot of ways this is what the Delos reminds me of, only with a lot more eye relief. Heck, the field stop is almost identical to the 13T6. Having that extra amount of eye relief makes a *big* difference in viewing comfort for those with eyeglasses.

Contrast? Incredible. Then again, my previous two eyepieces that I've used to hit that 2-3mm exit pupil "sweet spot" on my f/5 dobs have been a 13T6 and a 13mm Ethos, both renowned for their contrast, so nothing really new in saying that. I took a quick peek at Jupiter in the 8" (71X) and while the lack of magnification concentrated the planet's light a lot more than I'd have desired for my eyes, I could still make a lot of detail in the belts. Putting the planet outside the FOV didn't "teleport" wayward ghost images back into the FOV.

The softness I saw earlier at the very edge was indeed coma from the mirror, as I found the off-axis astigmatism and field curvature at the edge to be negligible. No difficulties in holding the exit pupil once the adjustment on the housing was made.

My only disappointment, and it didn't impede the function of the eyepiece on either scope, was the amount of in-focus. My 8" f/4.9 is designed to work for both imagers and visual observers, and places the focal plane out to the point where most eyepieces require an extension tube to reach focus for visual use. Not a terribly-long extension tube, mind you, but you'll still need one. That's actually a plus, because if an eyepiece like the 14D needs more infocus, you simply take out the extension tube.

The point is, extension tubes are cheap. Ripping the stock focuser out and replacing it with a low-profile one to handle specific accessories and eyepieces, though, isn't.

I could reach focus in the 12" f/4.9 Skywatcher Dob. The eyepiece came within 10mm of "bottoming out" on the focuser. The 12" Dob has just the base focuser in it, and it's hardly a low-profile focuser. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid about the 14D's in-focus issues on other folks' scopes, but I just wanted to let y'all know--you've been warned.

All in all, great eyepiece, and a very welcome addition to the stable.

Clear Skies,
Phil

#22 ibase

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:10 AM

.. To me the XW is a lot easier to hold and I leave the eye cups of my XW's in the full "down" position.....no problems doing that on the XW's.....I couldn't ever do that with the 6mm Delos I owned, which is now owned by Hernando.


Mark, thanks for the mention, glad the trade worked very well for both of us because in my case, the Delos is easier to hold with less beaning/blackouts (eyecups fully retracted) compared to the Pentax XW.

Best,

#23 Scanning4Comets

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:07 PM

Wow!

With the 14m Delos having that much in focus, I would have to pass altogether if I ever decided to get that EP. I have a 14mm Denkmeier that I almost sold a few times because I wanted to try a different eyepiece. I took the 14mm Denk out on a few occasions and from what I saw, it offers excellent performance, has a 70 degree field, super sharp field stop, is extremely light, and it is parfocal with the rest of my eyepiece line.

I am actually pretty much at a point where I'd hate to stir up the line I have now because they all throw up excellent views, save for a bit of coma / astigmatism in my new 38mm Q70 I just picked up after selling the first one off to try out a better corrected wide field sweeper, (That was a 34mm ES I had bought from MRNUTTY). Great EP and all, but I actually preferred the 38mm Q70 because I can takes pics with my camera easily with it, it has no blackout issues and it is a lot lighter and parfocal to the rest of my eyepieces. The 34mm ES required a 28mm Baader FTR so I could even reach focus at all !

The 14mm Denk in terms of edge performance is excellent. All I can see w/o a Paracorr is extremely *MINOR* coma about 85-90% of the way out. Transmission is excellent, coatings are top notch, and it barlows really well. :cool:

Thanks for the report Phil, now I know 100% that I will steer clear of the 14mm Delos, and only because of the in focus it has. Not knocking it in any way, as the 6mm Delos I traded for my 7mm XW with Hernando was an incredible EP in it's own right. I just preferred a bit less magnification and I found the 6mm Delos a bit too long ergonomically speaking. The 7mm XW fits the bill in terms of being parfocal with the rest of my eyepieces as well.

Hernando:

I'd like to take another opportunity to thank you for the trade here as well. I still have the 7mm Pentax XW! In all of my trades, and sales, the 7mm XW has remained in my line up and will remain for a long time to come, which is a lot for me, :lol: After getting the 7mm XW, I went and grabbed a like new 10mm Pentax XW to compliment the 7mm XW! :bow:

Cheers,

#24 ibase

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:58 PM


Hernando:

I'd like to take another opportunity to thank you for the trade here as well. I still have the 7mm Pentax XW! In all of my trades, and sales, the 7mm XW has remained in my line up and will remain for a long time to come, which is a lot for me, :lol: After getting the 7mm XW, I went and grabbed a like new 10mm Pentax XW to compliment the 7mm XW! :bow:


Thanks too Mark, glad your XW arsenal is growing! Delos & Pentax XW's are in the same top class, performance wise, as OP's review reveals too, some of the best eyepieces ever made! :bow:

Best,

#25 Phillip Creed

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 07:23 AM

I had a chance last night for a very quick peek through the 14mm Delos in my 8" f/4.9. Our 2-year-old and 8-month-old take up a lot of our time, and part of being on cub duty means I could only be outside for about 10 minutes.

I was interested in seeing how well the eyepiece barlows. As it turns out, VERY WELL. I used a 2X GSO Barlow in conjunction with the 14mm Delos. *Phenomenal* contrast on Jupiter and the moon with a very clean image.

One word of caution, though--remember that required infocus I mentioned on the 14mm Delos? It manifests itself in the form of more amplification than what is stated on your barlow lens, because the focal plane of the eyepiece is situated further from the field lens of the barlow than would be the case for other eyepieces.

On an 8" f/4.9, the 14mm Delos' 17.3mm field stop should yield almost exactly a 1.00-deg TFOV, and 0.50-deg TFOV at 2X. As it turns out, the moon last night was at a point in its orbit where its angular size was almost exactly 30', so the 14D+2X combo should have had the moon span across the entire field stop. Instead, I noticed that it could only fit maybe 90%--if that--of the moon's disk in there, meaning I was getting at least 2.2X, or the equivalent of a "6.4mm" Delos.

Overall, I'd say Televue has a winner with the 14mm Delos. This, combined with the 10mm, deliver a real punch for anyone with an ~f/5 scope. I have been thoroughly impressed at this eyepiece's sharpness, comfort and contrast, as well as that of the 10mm.

I would clearly rate the 14mm Delos as superior to the 14XW if you're not using a Paracorr. Yes, the Paracorr will clean up the 14XW's field curvature, but if you don't want to spend the money for a premium 14mm eyepiece AND a Paracorr, get the Delos--provided your scope's focuser can handle the required in-focus of the 14mm Delos. I'll take some measurements next time I'm out to figure out how much extra in-focus is required vs. other eyepieces.

For the 10mm range, I've looked through both the 10XW and the 10mm Delos and it's a case of personal preference there. You simply can't lose picking either one.

I do wish that they had a few 2" offerings in the Delos line. They phased out the Radians; why not do the same for the aging Panoptic line? But the more I think about that, the more I realize the ES-68's are priced in a way that it's probably not worth their time and investment.

Clear Skies,
Phil






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