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Lunt LS80 + DSII + Mark V?

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#1 Kent10

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:08 PM

Hi:

I had been reading quite a bit on this forum and have always thought eventually I would get a Lunt. (I own a Baader Wedge for my refractor.) But I didn't think I would get it so soon. One popped up on AM for a good price so a Lunt LS80 is on the way. Then today on AM a DSII for a good price popped up. I didn't think I would have one of these at least not for a while. But now one is on the way. :jump:

I realize I will know eventually once I can use it myself, but I am wondering how Mark V binos work with the DSII. The DSII creates dimmer views by 40% and so do the binos so how are they. Do they work well only at lower powers.

Also, I have the standard Crayford focuser. I have read reports that the Crayford is adequately strong enough for binos but not as good as the Feathertouch. I have some pretty heavy eyepieces that I use with my Mark V such as Pentax XW and even Leica Zooms. Will that be too heavy? I guess it depends where the sun is. I also remember reading there was another focuser that could be bought that might be stronger than the Crayford and cheaper than the FT. Does anyone know which I am referring to and do you have any experience with it.

I'll find out eventually but I am short on time for the next while even after I receive my scope so it may be a while before I can test it and I am anxious to learn.

Thanks, Kent

#2 Kent10

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:37 AM

I found one opinion from Zorg

"I have compared with a LS80DS, views were very nice up to 80x but too dark for me beyond 80x on the proms. With a bino, it was too dark at lower power."

#3 Kent10

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:50 AM

And another opinion from MikeTaormina

"While the overall view was slightly dimmer than when singlestacked, it was still quite bright enough for binoviewers and imaging."

#4 Kent10

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:40 AM

From George9

"I always use mine with a binoviewer, at 20x, 60x, 80x, and 140x if seeing is great. I could use 100-110x, but I don't happen to have that combo. For average seeing, I find 80x to be the max useful."

#5 mhilscher

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:14 PM

moonlite is the focuser

#6 Kent10

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:45 PM

moonlite is the focuser


Thanks mhilscher.

#7 George9

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:10 PM

Hi, Kent. Not sure why I said 20x. I meant 35x, 60x, 80x, and 140x. That's from a Denk II, Denk power switch, and a pair of 21mm Denks, with an AP BARADV for the 140x.

At 35x and 60x, it is bright enough for just a brimmed hat and the eyecups. At 80x, a dark cloth hood helps, and at 140x, a hood is essential.

I don't notice monocular vision feeling all that much brighter than with the binoviewer. I almost never go monocular.

I can't comment on the Crayford because I did get the FT.

Make sure your blocking filter is big enough. Ideally B1800. If B1200, just look out for vignetting. B600 won't work well.

George

#8 Kent10

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:14 PM

Hi George. Thanks for all the information. I appreciate it. I am getting really excited about getting my scope. Using the binos for all magnifications sounds promising. I do have a hood. I also have the B1800. Can't wait. Thanks again.

#9 jerwin

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:20 AM

Kent, I want to thank you for buying that LS80. I saw that on AM the last 2 times Tim posted it and I couldn't bring myself to do it. He lowered the price and something in me clicked that I was going to do it. He told me it was already pending sale and I felt a bit of relief as I already have a LS60DS and felt like I was jumping the gun without knowing if I could offload that one without loosing my shorts. So although I was slightly disappointing, I think it was for the best for me...and for you apparently. Going from a DS to a single stack was also weighing on my mind so you finding that DSII right afterwards seems like it was meant to be.

Good luck and clear skies. And when you move up to the 100mm and need to offload the 80DSII, send me a PM. :D

Jim

#10 Kent10

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:37 AM

Thanks Jim. I was like you. I saw it advertised at the higher price and it was a little high for me. I thought if it comes down $300 I would go for it. And it did just that. So I bought it. I couldn't believe the DSII came up the next day. I had already spent so much and felt guilty but it too was a good price and I had to have it. There is a LS100 with DS on AM now and wow it crossed my mind but again I am in your position and I can't get that while I don't even have my LS80 yet :) I do have aperture fever though and although I know I will love the 80, I am already wondering what it would be like to have the 100 and then DSed. Please help me!

#11 Kent10

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:47 AM

Oh and to make you feel better. I think in Stephen Ramsden's review of the LS80 he says the LS60 DS is slightly better on the surface detail. Likewise, I think I have read somewhere that the LS80 DSII has slightly better surface detail than the LS100. Still I would like to see that with my own eyes. You can probably get higher magnification with the 100 and I love those high resolution pics of the prominences. On the other hand the 80 might tolerate poorer seeing. I am trying to make myself feel better too.

#12 Kent10

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:55 AM

But many recommend the 100 over the 80 DSII :(

#13 jerwin

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 09:19 AM

I saw the 100 on AM, but 7k would take a little more of my savings than I want to give up right now. If I knew I could recoup most of my LS60DS it would probably still be more than I feel comfortable spending. I'm probably going to dedicate a savings account towards astro equipment, drop a few hundred in each month and see how that goes.

Look forward to sobbing quietly to myself after your first light post.

Jim

#14 mhilscher

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:30 AM

Jim,

Oddly enough we have the same set up, instead of the Feather Touch Focuser, I went with a Moonlight for the DS60, additionally, I have a CPC1100,...wondering when do you use the focal reducer? -do notice improvements?
Thank you

Matthew

#15 jerwin

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:47 AM

I do use the focal reducer, almost all the time. I feel like it does flatten the overall image and the increased FOV is nice. With that an my ES30 82 degree I can ALMOST fit m81, M82 and NGC 3077 in the same FOV. I get the corners, so not quote there. Maybe the 100 degree will get me there someday :p

I've spend a lot of money and it's a part that I don't regret buying at all. The bad thing about it is I forget to take it off for planetary viewing, so I often get a smaller Saturn or Jupiter than I would at the F10.

Clear skies,
Jim

#16 George9

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:51 AM

But many recommend the 100 over the 80 DSII :(


I expect you will like the LS80. (And there will always be something else slightly better or slightly worse.) For visual, I really love the LS80 DSII disk.

George

#17 frolinmod

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:51 AM

Is anyone using a Baader Maxbright with either the LS80 or LS100?

Anyone wants to look through an LS80+DSII side-by-side with an LS100, just let me know. I have them both.

I did get to try an LS100F out for a day and it definitely improves the views, but not by anywhere near enough to justify its cost.

The improvement provided by the DSII on an LS80 is night and day. The DSII is a vast improvement and a good deal cost wise. The improvement provided by the LS100F on an LS100 is more subtle. It's definitely not an additional $5K better in my opinion.

#18 Kent10

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:16 PM

But many recommend the 100 over the 80 DSII :(


I expect you will like the LS80. (And there will always be something else slightly better or slightly worse.) For visual, I really love the LS80 DSII disk.

George


Thanks George. I do believe you are right. I know I will enjoy it. It is only natural to wonder however what could be better. I can't believe I don't even have the LS80 yet and I am wondering so much about the 100. I do feel really good about my purchase but the difference in price between the 2 isn't much and I wouldn't have to worry about the weight. I only have a DM-6 mount and Rob Miller tripod for my 160mm refractor. Supposedly the case is the same size for the 80 and 100 so I think only the mount is of concern for those who don't have one large enough for the 100 or who don't care to take a larger one with them when traveling.

So I am happy with my purchase but will still have to decide if a 100 came along if I would want it. Thanks frolinmod for the information on the LS100F. It is interesting how it doesn't improve as much as the DSII for the 80.

I have also been wondering if the 60 external DS is worth having over the DSII. I see some prefer it since you don't get the red glow and it is easier to put on and take off. Is the view brighter too when using the external. In Ramsden's review of the 80 he notices that the 60 with external 60 is brighter than the 80 with DSII. Interesting.

Thanks again all.

#19 Kent10

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:48 PM

Anyone wants to look through an LS80+DSII side-by-side with an LS100, just let me know. I have them both.


That is very kind of you, frolinmod. I am not sure where you live but it would be too much of a coincidence if you lived near Flagstaff, AZ where I live. It would be so much fun though.

Since I doubt I can make it to your location I will have to rely on your description. I have read lots already.

Do you agree the surface detail is better with the 80 + DSII. Some say spicules are better with the 100 while others say that they are only seen with 100 and above (that is what S Ramsden says).

I imagine you can get closer to the prominences with higher magnification with the 100. Is that right? That would be nice. Everything is probably brighter and and I bet binos work better with the 100.

I wonder if you notice differences in poor seeing conditions between the 80 and 100 where the 80 would have an advantage. It is one thing to have a larger scope but if you can only see better detail periodically then it may not be worth it. I suppose it depends where you live but are you able to take advantage of the larger aperture at all times or only when seeing is great.

Some say the views in the 100 are too bright at low power but I think binos or a ND filter would help if that is a problem.

Actually, I just found this description from a previous post of yours.
"The LS100 takes power much better than the LS80 does. It can still do full disk views, but because of the need to apply a little more power, the disk fills more of the field of view (as in most of it). But whoa boy can you crank up the power! Where the LS80 goes soft, the LS100 is just loafing along asking for more power. And the extra definition on the LS100 is incredible. I haven't been able to get the LS100 to go soft. I need to get some higher power eyepieces! Before I got the LS100 I used to think it was the zoom eyepieces going soft at high powers. Nope, it was the LS80 itself.

The LS80+DSII has higher contrast, but only at low power. Once you start cranking up the power on the LS100, the LS100 wins hands down.

When compared to the bare LS80 without the DSII, the LS100 wins in all cases except very low power where the LS100 is so bright it washes out detail. But so what, just crank up the power a little on the LS100."

One other question I had for anyone with the LS80. I read that extending the dew shield actually causes heat build up in there resulting in poorer images. Has anyone else noticed this. I would extend it to keep dust and other things off the lens but if heat builds up in there, it might not be a good idea.

Thanks for all the help!

#20 George9

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 02:06 PM

Kent, to answer your specific question, I extend the dew shield if there are any visitors around who might touch the objective. Otherwise I don't bother to extend it. I have not noticed overheating when extended.

The big advantage of the LS80 for me was its portability. I bought a TV85 case from TeleVue and modified the foam to hold the LS80+DSII. With a Bogen tripod and a geared head, I can carry everything, including the binoviewer and eyepieces, on one shoulder plus one hand. For me, that means I use it 50-100 times per year. The LS100 would get used 10-20 times per year, about the same as my white-light refractor.

The LS80 does show spicules and prominence detail, but the LS100 is better by my views (I don't own it).

George

#21 Kent10

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 02:32 PM

Thanks for the info, George. What you do with the dew shield sounds like a good idea. I worry about dust and pollen etc so I guess I will just have to try for myself and see.

So it sounds like you have viewed through the 100 and thought it was better than the 80. Is that with DS. I think everyone that has seen both has liked the 100 better overall as long as portability isn't an issue as in your case. They are also pretty close in price too if you have the DSII. The 100 gets the FT focuser while the 80 gets the zoom EP.

#22 George9

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

In my limited LS100 experience, the LS100 SS was better on prominences than the LS80 SS or DS. I prefered the LS80 DSII to the LS100 SS on the disk, but I can certainly believe frolinmod's assessment. Yet if you poke around more old threads, you will see that some rate the LS80 DSII as the best all-around disk ever (if you account for detail, contrast, and evenness); that's presumably at low to moderate power.

For that matter, my brief views through the LS152 showed it to be better than the LS100 on prominences, and my brief view through the LS230 showed it to be even better than that. The sky did have a fairly bright red background in the LS230, but the prominence was much brighter and more detailed. I guess seeing must have been good that day.

George

#23 Kent10

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 03:09 PM

For that matter, my brief views through the LS152 showed it to be better than the LS100 on prominences, and my brief view through the LS230 showed it to be even better than that. The sky did have a fairly bright red background in the LS230, but the prominence was much brighter and more detailed. I guess seeing must have been good that day.

George


:) Like you said there is always something better. Just have to decide where it ends and then dream of the next step up.






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