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Good Seeing-poor tran Saturn-enhanced Polar image!

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#1 Kokatha man

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 07:51 AM

Edit: I've changed the image and some of the text in this particular post because although the image posted further down in this thread is more heavily processed it is imho far superior and features the highly-visible (in this image) bright spot almost directly next to one of the NPZ'z hexagonal vertices: high in the upper limits of the NNTZ.

Also, I believe that despite my reluctance to "super-size" my reprocess right down the thread at larger scale is a better outcome yet again imho...and will now "do" an r-rgb at this large scale!
:grin:

This is also the image which I have sent to the professional organisations and which has already attracted some interest from them..... :)

We spent 3 nights on the trot imaging from about 3am till 6am finishing yesterday morning with 300Gb+ of data, massive tiredness and no real sense of satisfaction!

I believe the seeing was quite reasonable - I'd go so far as to say "good" even.....but the transparency was poor with SkippSky predicting 6/10 each night although I'd have to say that rating was probably somewhat optimistic. :(

At least we got to try out varying the focal length at last and various framerates with different resolutions to keep the filesizes down so that WMP could play the avi's without resorting to VirtualDub.....but for data that seemed promising onscreen I feel as if it just didn't make the grade ultimately and can only blame the transparency - that or me and my trusty sidekick..! :question: :lol:

Anyway, here is one of a number of avi sets that all looked pretty similar - kinda strange that Encke and some quite distinct features such as the bright spot high in Northern latitudes directly adjacent to one of the vertices of the NPH-Zone and other details across the disk can be seen - but for some strange reason not cracking the sort of really sharp definition we were hoping/wishing for from the live feed.....as said, I can only speculate that the detail, although resolved was not clear & sharp because of said poor transparency?!? :question:

One other point to note is that which I made elsewhere about how the C-ring should appear - a pale "steel-blue" and NOT any shade of neutral gray.....and it should be appreciated re this point that blue intensity is reduced to 85% in rgb combine as well as the blue histogram being the lowest during capture.....I never do anything in processing to manipulate the C-ring's colour or visibility. :)

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#2 wenjha

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:11 AM

Wow! Super!! Darryl
poor transparency won't stop you to get a sharp Saturn!

#3 Rankinstudio

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:37 AM

Another awesome capture Darryl!

#4 Kokatha man

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:09 AM

Thanks Sam & David - I have no interest in "bunging on" as we say Downunder but tbh we were pretty disappointed because we were lured into thinking (possibly more like hoping in hindsight! :question: :lol:) that something really special was on the cards, but it was not to be. :bawling:

As I said, rather strange because the Encke was clearly brought out in many of the red channels in R6 wavelets stage with several B-ring sectors also revealed - even in quite a few green channels also :shocked:.....but although the detail is there if you scrutinise the disk it just didn't "pop out" in processing...and I can only "blame" the transparency.

We haven't really properly investigated all the data (the amount is mind-boggling) and as I said we finally got the resolution & frame-rates sorted so that we didn't have to do enormous amounts of Vdubbing for the last morning's captures.....so maybe there are a couple of gems still hiddden away waiting to be discovered as I can't just play avi's in WMP to scrutinise the better ones without first Vdubbing them which is a real pita - I hope there are but usually these sorts of hopes aren't realised..! :lol:

But we live in hope: I've had to be real helpfull to my better half after the marathon sessions she co-piloted with me these 3 nights, and we've been doing some major redecorating of the house with new furniture etc at the same time.....if I'm real nice and we get some rest in over the next couple of days we might get an opportunity again on Sunday morning..! :grin:

#5 Sunspot

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:20 AM

Excellent!

#6 ZuoZhao

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:13 AM

Wow,wonderful. How many years will be that I can do like this?

#7 mitovka

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:38 PM

Very sharp, high resolution Saturn. Congrats Darryl

#8 mikewirths

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:45 PM

Just gorgeous Darryl!!

keep em comin!

Mike

#9 Timthelder

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:03 PM

Looks pretty darn good from where I sit Daryl!

I haven't been able to get out and capture any *BLEEP*...'er I mean images as of yet. :bigshock:
Might make you a little more pleased with your own work... :silly: :lol:

Cheers, Tim.

#10 lcd1080

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:19 PM

3 hours and 300Gb of data, that's dedication Darryl! The results are very good in spite of the transparency issue. You mentioned having a chance to vary the focal length; in what range did you vary it? Also you mentioned wavelet 6 in connection with resolving Encke; I'm usually content with wavelets 1 and 2; how often do you use wavelet 6 in processing Saturn data?

Thanks,
Pete

#11 Kokatha man

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 05:10 PM

3 hours and 300Gb of data, that's dedication Darryl! The results are very good in spite of the transparency issue. You mentioned having a chance to vary the focal length; in what range did you vary it? Also you mentioned wavelet 6 in connection with resolving Encke; I'm usually content with wavelets 1 and 2; how often do you use wavelet 6 in processing Saturn data?
Thanks,
Pete


Thanks very much Paul, ZuoZhao, Michal, Mike, Tim & Pete... regardless of my allways child-like, over-enthusiastic anticipation of what might be in store for any single imaging session and its' actual outcomes, I am allways heartened by any kind words and feedback from forum members! :)

That 300Gb of data was collected over about 9 hours from 3 nights in a row Pete and as I said above we had worked out the combinations of resolutions for each frame-rate by the 3rd morning and managed to cut our total filesizes down quite drastically for that session! :)

Focal length was varied from around 5000mm to about 6000mm if my calculations stand scrutiny this time of the morning - from just under f14 to about f16.5 - not huge on the face of it but remember these are 3.75uM pixel cameras.

This appeared as significant image scale increase onscreen etc but tbh I did so as the seeing was droppping off possibly and I certainly didn't gain anything from the scale increase.....but because I checked collimation after adjusting my little home-made setup I can verify that adjustments don't affect the collimation - which I'm very pleased about! :grin:

Only use #1 & #2 also Pete, you've misread that.....and what I was really emphasizing was that after #1 settings the Encke and other B-ring details popped-out which is good - but alas the disk details didn't and for that I must blame transparency!

Sorry to go on about the C-ring but it's important folks don't read posts and think they're being given some "professional advice" just because it's said.....that goes for my posts as much as for anyone else's and I am happy for anyone to reference what they read here or elsewhere on these matters (and would strongly suggest they do!)

Of course when we image no matter whether we do it for ourselves and/or for forwarding to professional organisations there are numerous ways we can present it - "false" colour or representation is a very valid manner and with the devices we use it is allways an element of the equation: the elevation of the C-ring's appearance is one such manner.....but it is only a "mode" and not a pre-requisite to have it very visible because it is certainly not something that jumps out at you in the eyepiece - and it certainly ain't gray when it does unless you happen to be totally colour-blind!

.....and as everyone on this particular forum should know, you should be sitting at around eye level when viewing your screen to both process & look at images, especially for detail like the C-ring. As I said, I certainly don't try and make it some over-enhanced aspect to the image that stands out uber-unnaturally. :)

I have so much more data here to look at and most of it involves VirtualDubbing first - dang that makes it hard!!! :shocked: :foreheadslap: :lol:

#12 lcd1080

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 05:49 PM

3 nights in a row! I can barely keep my head up and held steady if I try two nights in succession. You really give it your all! Oh and I see the error in my ways, when you said Encke was clearly brought out in many of the red channels in "R6 wavelets" I took that to mean Registax wavelet 6 but of course you meant wavelets in version 6 of Registax (sigh).

Pete

#13 tjensen

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:08 PM

Hey Darryl
That is simply outstanding!!!!!! :waytogo: :waytogo:
You wanna send some of that seeing this way. I'll take your conditions over what I've had lately anytime!!
Keep 'em come'n!!!

#14 Az Frank

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:08 PM

Never tire of your excellent Saturn images Darryl!Keep them comming!

#15 Tassydevil

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:05 AM

Super as always Daryl.

#16 Kokatha man

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:17 AM

Edit: as per the first post in this thread I replaced the original image there with the single image version of the one shown here.....I'll leave this side-by-side pair here so that folks can see the annotations on the RHS image... :)

Thanks Tim & Frank - I still haven't started going through any of the rest of the enormous amount of data still to be analysed.....and still hoping a real gem might be hidden amongst it! :fingerscrossed: :fingerscrossed: :fingerscrossed: :lol:

But in getting the images already processed ready for sending I was so intrigued by the bright spot right next to the NPZ's hexagonal outline & vertice (actually in the upper limits of the NNTZ - a cloud feature probably? :question:) that I did a heavier and slightly different processing regimen to (hopefully!) enhance its' visibility...followed in the next post by a Polar projection for another gander at this. :)

Others will be the judge of this but imo it was worth the repro - and it seems to me that "North up" gives it a bit more prominence: here it is as identical images side-by-side with the RHS image indicating this particular feature for anyone mystified by my ramblings about such minutiae - and there is plenty of other detail on display despite me bemoaning the poor transparency these sessions! :grin:

edit: I have placed red dots in the B-ring system on the annotated image (RHS) to point out the fact that this section of Saturn's rings clearly displays at least 5 different "bands/sections"

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#17 Kokatha man

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:18 AM

The Polar projection map... :)

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#18 Kokatha man

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:36 AM

Thanks Graeme! :)

#19 Space Cowboy

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 04:01 AM

They are very impressive Darryl! Saturn looks so much better the right way up. ;)

#20 tebio49

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 04:32 AM

A good job, :applause:
A greeting.

#21 Kokatha man

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:06 AM

Thanks Stuart & Tebio, your comments are appreciated! :)

I have edited the dual-image repro above to annotate the 5 divisions in the B-ring section that are quite visible.....normally resolving the Encke* is considered a quite reasonable feat but these clear delineations of the B-ring are something else.....I guess that along with the other features my initial disappointment was a tad ridiculous...but we often hope for more than we get - and sometimes get more than we hope for..! :lol:

The Encke is never actually resolved in our instruments as such, rather the drop in light level (ie, the contrast) is what we pick up when we reveal this feature - akin to albedo "resolution" of Mercury features or our naked eyes' ability to "see" craters on the Moon. :)

#22 rg55

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:40 AM

No comment, other than... :bow: :jump: :bow: :jump: :bow:

#23 Kokatha man

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:39 PM

Thanks Richard - I have some iR742nM images plus a couple of other animations (and plenty of rgb's similar to the above! :lol:) which I'll go through and possibly post a couple of later.....meanwhile cloudy down here with a slight drizzling rain at times last night!

#24 ZielkeNightsky

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:42 PM

A very nice set of data Darryl. Impressive with that white spot near the Hexagon. Never thought that amateurs would be able to detect and follow such subtle details.


Thanks for sharing.

#25 Kokatha man

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:18 AM

Thanks Lars - hopefully we'll be able to monitor this bright spot over the immediate future...Ricardo Hueso from PVOL made special mention of it in his reply to my images I sent him the other day.

I got a bit "greedy" for real detail in my Saturn shots of late, especially after a couple I've managed this opposition so far and some nights like these where it promised a bit more on the 3 nights in succession we imaged, with the last the best.....but in the end it all comes down to a lot of luck with the seeing even though you've got to be out there "having a go" - and at 63 a succession of long nights can get pretty debilitating! :sleepy:






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