Jump to content


Photo

ngc 5466 and 5053 tips?

  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 aatt

aatt

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 450
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2012
  • Loc: CT

Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:07 AM

I have tried to nail these globs quite a bit in the past couple of weeks. They are frustrating targets....for 5466 I have tried hopping from 11-9 and to no avail. M53is a breeze to find and with my 34mm 5053 should be right there in the same field and yet nothing....Tips anyone?

#2 blb

blb

    Skylab

  • -----
  • Posts: 4443
  • Joined: 25 Nov 2005
  • Loc: Piedmont NC

Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:50 AM

You said nothing about what the sky conditions were like or the size of the telescope used. Both of these globular clusters have a very low surface brightness with few (ngc5466) to no (ngc5053) stars visible in my 10-inch dob from our clubs dark sky site in a yellow zone. Maybe your skies are just to bright to see these, I know I can't see them from my home.

The intergrated magnitude of an extended object can be a little misleading. NGC 188 is such a case, with a magnitude of 8.1 and a size of 14', you would think it to be an easy target but it isn't. I can't see it from home with any telescope in my light poluted skies. You see all the stars in the cluster are between 11th to 13th magnitude and are hid by the sky glow. If you were to take all the light from all those stars in the cluster you come up with the intergrated magnitude of 8.1 for a point source, which it isn't. Maybe all you need to see these clusters is to travel to darker skies to see their faint low surface brightness.

#3 aatt

aatt

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 450
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2012
  • Loc: CT

Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

My bad-I use a F/5 15" Dob. My backyard is an orange zone-a red lies 5 miles to the west/south-east is a little better.I have tried them in the east and close to the zenith.Seeing has been fair/mediocre on the nights I have been working on these.

#4 The Ardent

The Ardent

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1162
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Virginia

Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:18 PM

I saw 5053 at the Staunton River Star party two weeks ago. The skies were very good at zenith. Saw a faint round haze with some individual stars and granularity. The best I ever seen it.
Years ago in my 12" f/5 it was just a glow under dark skies.
Its plotted well on Uranometria.
Good Luck

#5 mnev326

mnev326

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 91
  • Joined: 06 Feb 2007

Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:48 PM

Don't give up I've observed both from a site in an orange zone in New Jersey with my 15. I find NGC5466 to be a little easier than NGC5053. They key is transparency. There is another tough one in Libra NGC5897. This one I have yet to observe. There is a rating system for Globs, Class I to Class XII. Class I globs are the densest to Class XII the lowest. NGC 5466 is a class XII and 5053 is a XI. For comparison M53 is a class V.

#6 Tony Flanders

Tony Flanders

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11156
  • Joined: 18 May 2006
  • Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA

Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:53 PM

My bad-I use a F/5 15" Dob. My backyard is an orange zone-a red lies 5 miles to the west/south-east is a little better.I have tried them in the east and close to the zenith.Seeing has been fair/mediocre on the nights I have been working on these.


Should be possible, but it won't be easy. These objects are easy for an experienced observer under dark skies, even in small instruments. But they're not happy about light pollution.

In decent suburban conditions in a 15-inch Dob, you should definitely be able to resolve a fair number of individual stars in both clusters. So if you fail to see them as faint clouds of light at low power, try boosting the power way up and looking for the individual stars.

#7 LivingNDixie

LivingNDixie

    TSP Chowhound

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 18416
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2003
  • Loc: Trussville, AL

Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:16 PM

NGC 5053 is pretty tough. I saw it as a round glow with maybe a star or two superimposed on it. This was under rural skies, 10in SCT at 113X.

#8 uniondrone

uniondrone

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1873
  • Joined: 05 Dec 2009
  • Loc: Streetlight Archipelago

Posted 20 March 2013 - 06:00 PM

These two are tough. I have tried for them both under orange zone skies in my 10" dob on numerous occasions. I have never made a positive identification on NGC 5053 under these conditions. I have seen NGC 5466, however, when the transparency is good, but it appears as little more than a circular area that is not quite the same darkness of grey as the surrounding region--not exactly compelling observing!

If you want to try for non-Messier spring globs that are more amenable to observation try for NGC 2419 in Lynx and NGC 4147 in Coma Berenices. Neither will ever get mistaken for a showpiece object, but are more rewarding than the two that you've been trying for.

#9 deepskydarrell

deepskydarrell

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 71
  • Joined: 09 Mar 2008
  • Loc: Abbotsford, BC Canada

Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:49 AM

It's good to have the exact location. For 5466 know the hop exactly. For 5053 know the size of your eyepiece field. Once you have the spot then averted vision and a bit of jiggle/movement helps. I've had them in my 8 in. in blue skies and I was amazed to see 5466 in my 80 mm finder in a SQM 21.85 sky, so darkness really helps. My records show 5466 a bit easier.

Hope you see them soon.

DSD.

#10 Achernar

Achernar

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9018
  • Joined: 25 Feb 2006
  • Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA

Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:25 PM

First of all, forget about 'em if there's a bright moon out or the skies are hazy. They require sites that at least are not lit up by streetlights and passing cars. NGC-5466 is fairly easy from the light polluted skies west of my city, but NGC-5053 is a lot harder. It is very large and low in surface brightness, almost like a ghost globular through my 15-inch. I spotted it with a 24mm ES 82 degree eyepiece. Wait until dark skies return and the transparency is good, both of these objects are large and faint. The sketch below will show you what to expect when you do find them with an 8 or 10-inch scope.

Taras

Attached Files



#11 aatt

aatt

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 450
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2012
  • Loc: CT

Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:23 PM

Yes Old Luna is putting the cabash on finding these for the moment.I recognize the star field from your drawing (nice sketch by the way)and those foreground stars in the haze. I just could not see the haze. At least I was in the right spot. I was very suspicious of this "foreground stars" area. Transparency was just not good enough for it to pop.

#12 nytecam

nytecam

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11411
  • Joined: 20 Aug 2005
  • Loc: London UK

Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:26 AM

Here's an old shot via my Meade ETX-70 of M53 plus NGC 5053 lower left corner - the latter is very faint and sparse :o

Attached Files



#13 nytecam

nytecam

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11411
  • Joined: 20 Aug 2005
  • Loc: London UK

Posted 06 April 2013 - 04:15 AM

Dodging between cloud gaps last night got a couple of quick shots of sparce GCs in NGC 5053 near GC M53 in Coma and NGC 5466 in western Bootes - my first for the latter. Only the brighter stars recorded [most below mag18!] but for me a pleaing pair :grin:

Posted Image
Posted Image

#14 Sasa

Sasa

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 785
  • Joined: 03 Nov 2010
  • Loc: Ricany, Czech Republic

Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:22 PM

These two are tough also for me. I never succeeded with NGC5053 in my former 10" Newton. But I saw that one using my 4" refractor. As others were saying the key is a dark sky as possible. Once I observed it under darker sky and it was much easier to see it at 36x as a large, slightly irregular misty patch. NGC5466 is still a difficult target for 4" refractor from my backyard. But I don't remember struggling with it as with NGC5053. I saw it on the first try (could be just lucky with weather).

Two nights ago I checked NGC5053 from my backyard in 63mm refractor. I was surprised that there was something suspicious at 53x. But looking at nytecam, I could have been picking up the light from few faint stars superimposed on the cluster (I assume these are not the cluster members).

#15 nytecam

nytecam

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11411
  • Joined: 20 Aug 2005
  • Loc: London UK

Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:37 PM

.....Two nights ago I checked NGC5053 from my backyard in 63mm refractor. I was surprised that there was something suspicious at 53x. But looking at nytecam, I could have been picking up the light from few faint stars superimposed on the cluster (I assume these are not the cluster members).

Whilst there must be a few foreground stars overlayer these GCs, the vast majority of stars recorded centred on the CG are members of that respective GC even if they match in brightness foreground field stars :grin:

#16 David Knisely

David Knisely

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 15464
  • Joined: 19 Apr 2004
  • Loc: southeastern Nebraska

Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:44 PM

These two are tough also for me. I never succeeded with NGC5053 in my former 10" Newton. But I saw that one using my 4" refractor. As others were saying the key is a dark sky as possible. Once I observed it under darker sky and it was much easier to see it at 36x as a large, slightly irregular misty patch. NGC5466 is still a difficult target for 4" refractor from my backyard. But I don't remember struggling with it as with NGC5053. I saw it on the first try (could be just lucky with weather).

Two nights ago I checked NGC5053 from my backyard in 63mm refractor. I was surprised that there was something suspicious at 53x. But looking at nytecam, I could have been picking up the light from few faint stars superimposed on the cluster (I assume these are not the cluster members).


There are a few stars near NGC 5053 in the 11th to 13th magnitude range, so you may have seen those. The giant tip magnitude of stars in NGC 5053 is 13.8, so it should be possible to see at least a few of the cluster's stars in a four to six inch aperture, although not many will probably be seen. In my 10 inch, it takes some playing around with the magnification, but I can see somewhere between 20 to 30 stars in it with averted vision at around 100x to 150x. In my 14 inch, that number jumps to between 50 and 100 members, although many come and go with the seeing. Clear skies to you.

#17 ensign

ensign

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 782
  • Joined: 16 Dec 2008
  • Loc: Southwestern Ontario

Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:44 PM

On a night of very good transparency at a yellow/green zone site, a friend brought a detailed map of the vicinity of 5053.

When I was sure I had the correct field, using averted vision and tapping the scope, I was able to view 5053 with stars on the threshold (winking in and out of view) in my 10" Dob.

#18 aatt

aatt

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 450
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2012
  • Loc: CT

Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:25 PM

As the OP of this thread, I just wanted to say that I took my 15" to a green zone last night for its' "first dark" compared to my regular backyard orange zone and nailed both of these-finally! 5053 was still very vague, but 5466 was obvious although subtle.I tried to also get the two galaxies to the East of 12 Bootes, but failed. Did nail 5 new planetaries in Aquila and Cygnus. There was one moment where the sunflower galaxy "bloomed" for a second I saw multiple and textured arms like in a photograph-unbelievable! Overall, seeing was horrible, but the dramatic increase in contrast had me observing (mostly standing) for 5 and a half straight hours until I had to stop from exhaustion. I will be heading back to this site whenever I can that is for sure!

#19 kfiscus

kfiscus

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2120
  • Joined: 09 Jul 2012
  • Loc: Albert Lea, MN, USA

Posted 05 June 2013 - 04:32 PM

Thanks for those gorgeous pictures!

#20 GlennLeDrew

GlennLeDrew

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10521
  • Joined: 17 Jun 2008
  • Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 05 June 2013 - 04:32 PM

Under a 21.3 MPSAS sky, I see the subtle glow of NGC 5053 without too much difficulty in my homemade 20.8X60 binocular.

#21 Achernar

Achernar

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9018
  • Joined: 25 Feb 2006
  • Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA

Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:51 PM

This is a drawing of NGC, which from less than truly dark skies is not an easy object even for a 15-inch Dob.

Taras

Attached Files



#22 Aleko

Aleko

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 163
  • Joined: 01 Aug 2010
  • Loc: Georgia

Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:59 PM

I discovered this accidentally 20 years ago, also using a 15-inch f5...

Center M3 in the scope, then walk away for about 20 minutes. When you come back, ngc5466 will be in your field of view!

The two are separated by about 10 minutes in dec and 23 minutes in RA.

Alex

#23 tnakazon

tnakazon

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 334
  • Joined: 26 Jun 2010
  • Loc: Los Angeles

Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:29 PM

Was able to spot NGC 5466 with my 4.5" F/8 without too much difficulty in an orange zone. NGC 5053 was much harder, being able to intermittently detect a faint glow. Comparing my sketch with images of NGC 5053 confirmed that my mind wasn't playing tricks on me (based on the location of the field stars).

#24 hokkaido53

hokkaido53

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 263
  • Joined: 07 May 2012
  • Loc: New Mexico

Posted 29 April 2014 - 01:23 PM

NGC 5053 can be tricky, because it blends in with the background. When I first saw it, it looked more like a nebula with a few dim stars - not like a globular cluster at all. As my eyes adapted to the dark, however, the structure of 5053 became more apparent, and I could also distinguish individual red and blue stars in it.

My suggestion, therefore, is to wait a good 45 minutes to be sure your eyes are fully dark-adapted and then go for 5053, beginning with your widest angle eyepiece (usually your lowest power).

Roy in Taos






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics