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M42 imaged through an Orion 80ED Scope

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#1 Yoda

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:03 AM

Here is an image stacked from my first captures of Orion from this winter. I am pretty new to Astro Imaging. I've only been out about 30 times in the past two years and over half of those trips sucked because the weather changed for the worse. Anyways, I thought I was pretty good but after looking at some of the submissions here :bow: ,I am feeling like I got lots to learn.

This image was stacked with about 5 light frames only. None of the other frames were used since I don't quite have the full grasp of stacking process. It was then process in LR3.

Image scope was an Orion 80ED, Pentax K5 DSLR, Orion SSAG with 80mm guidescope, and Sirius EQ mount.

Hope to get some feedback.

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#2 Raginar

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:47 AM

Looks like you had some good data. I took a similar picture with my ED80 too! Look up how to do background neutralization/color calibration with whatever software you're using. I think you might have clipped the black point which is why it looks 'too' black. Just remember your skies aren't black! :D

Thanks for sharing with us.

#3 NeilMac

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:58 AM

Nice color and details !!

#4 Hilmi

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:03 PM

Phsycadelic colors, makes my want to pull out my Jimi Hendrix CDs

#5 Wouter D'hoye

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:08 PM

Great iamge. Though I believe you clipped the background. Never do that. Keep it a very dark grey but don't make it entirely black. Sometimes you'd be amazed how "not empty" space really is.

Kind regards,

Wouter.

#6 Yoda

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:18 PM

Thanks all and thanks for the input of the black skies. I will redo and post. I lost the created stacked folder when I recently upgraded my computer so I will have to start from scratch with the raw files I have. Hope I can attain the Psychedelic colors for Hilmi too. Try some trance music with it as well.

#7 Jeff2011

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:22 PM

Great shot for your first Orion neb. Can't wait to get my VX mount in so that I can try with my AstroTech 72ED. What software did you use to process? I would recommend Deep Sky Stacker with Star Tools. That seems to be the quickest come up to speed time combo for processing.

#8 Yoda

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:25 PM

Forgot to add, most of my shots are at ISO 80 and I used one image that was filtered with an Astronomik UHC and one image filtered with orion OIII filter. I just stacked all as light frames using dss.

#9 Yoda

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:33 PM

Thanks Jeff. These small refractors seems to perform well. I stacked with DSS but haven't heard of Star Tools. I used LR3 after stacking

#10 Yoda

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:26 PM

Looks like you had some good data. I took a similar picture with my ED80 too! Look up how to do background neutralization/color calibration with whatever software you're using. I think you might have clipped the black point which is why it looks 'too' black. Just remember your skies aren't black! :D

Thanks for sharing with us.

Background neutralization/color calibration for light room is out of my mental grasp for now. The truth, I don't even know the appropriate color for M42. I did find a lot more Nebulousity in the clipped background lol
Thanks

#11 Jeff2011

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:08 PM

Yoda,

Check out http://startools.org

The trial version is full featured except that you can't save the final result. I do recommend that you take flats and darks when processing with DSS. It makes a difference.

#12 TopherTheME

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:01 PM

Forgot to add, most of my shots are at ISO 80 and I used one image that was filtered with an Astronomik UHC and one image filtered with orion OIII filter. I just stacked all as light frames using dss.


You don't really want to use ISO 80 for imaging with the K-5, ideally you want it to be around 1200ish ISO as its been shown to provide the best noise performance. I have nearly the exact same setup that you do except I have a CG-5 instead of a sirius. That K-5 is nothing short of fantastic for AP btw.

Heres my first attempt at M42 (although its at ISO 6400, I was experimenting).
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#13 Yoda

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:34 PM

Jeff, I did some reading on star tools. Pretty excited to try it.
Topher, I love the k5. Your image @ISO 6400 looks really good. What's the time of the exposures and did you use flats or darks? As far as ISO 80, I thought it had the best signal to noise ratio, widest dynamic range, and lowest readout and amp noise. I am surprised by your comment but still learning. Great shot of m42!

#14 tclehman1969

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:50 AM

Cool image, I think!

#15 Yoda

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:20 AM

Thanks? I Think!

#16 rflinn68

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:35 PM

Nice image for just 5 subs but there's a lot more there that was clipped. Just to give you an idea of whats there, here's an image I did with my 65mm Astro Tech scope. I am still pretty new at this also and did the same thing when I started out. There are some really good tutorials out there and Scott Rosens LLRGB method is one of the best IMO. I'm still trying to perfect it so it takes a while to get everything down. This is a wonderful hobby and cloudynights offers some great resources for people to learn. Good luck and keep it up! :)

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#17 TopherTheME

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:43 PM

Jeff, I did some reading on star tools. Pretty excited to try it.
Topher, I love the k5. Your image @ISO 6400 looks really good. What's the time of the exposures and did you use flats or darks? As far as ISO 80, I thought it had the best signal to noise ratio, widest dynamic range, and lowest readout and amp noise. I am surprised by your comment but still learning. Great shot of m42!


The shot was created using 30 x 50sec exposures. Darks and flats were used. However, the image was shot under very poor seeing conditions so the K-5 + ED80 can certainly do better.

ISO 80 does deliver the best dynamic range, which if thats what you're going for then its the best place to be. Just make sure your histograms are in the right place so you're not clipping any data. However, the best SNR has been found to be at around 1200ish for the Sony sensor thats in the K-5.

#18 Yoda

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:34 PM

Hi rflinn68 thanks and great image! Some motivation. Anyways, I played around with Star Tools a bit (Jeff's recommendation)and you are correct. I pretty much clipped the frills of M42 like shaving the head of a hot woman. I did not buy Star Tools because I want to try Pixinsight as well. I will re post m42 when it is properly processed to show my improvement.
Topher you have convinced me to try ISO 800. I actually don't know how to get ISO 1200 on the K5. If anything,800 will greatly reduce my sub times. Also, if I start shooting higher ISO, I will have to learn how to do darks and flats. I figured that at low enough ISO, I wouldn't need darks. Also, do you know if the built in High ISO NR (dark F subtraction) is a substitution for stacking darks on DSS?
PS. I am glad I posted on this site. I am getting so much info.

#19 Yoda

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:36 PM

rflinn68 is your image done using Scott Rosens LLRGB?

#20 rflinn68

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:13 AM

rflinn68 is your image done using Scott Rosens LLRGB?


This one was not but I highly recommend it. I cant even tell you what I done on this one. Just started slowly stretching it. I also have Annie's Astro Actions that will help save you some time. It is very cheap and from what I can tell is similar to Carboni's Astro Tools.

#21 TopherTheME

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:54 AM

Topher you have convinced me to try ISO 800. I actually don't know how to get ISO 1200 on the K5. If anything,800 will greatly reduce my sub times. Also, if I start shooting higher ISO, I will have to learn how to do darks and flats. I figured that at low enough ISO, I wouldn't need darks. Also, do you know if the built in High ISO NR (dark F subtraction) is a substitution for stacking darks on DSS?
PS. I am glad I posted on this site. I am getting so much info.


The in camera dark frame subtraction would probably perform better than doing it in post with DSS. However, its usually better to spend as much time as you can gathering light rather than having your camera processing data whiles its attached to your scope. But taking darks and flats isn't hard. I usually throw my camera in the trunk and have it take darks while on my way home.

#22 Yoda

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:08 PM

I looked at some of Scott Rosen's video yesterday and really liked it because it uses a lot of Photoshop. I don't want to spend money right now on additional software. I'll check out the other actions you recommend as well when I get some time. Thanks for the reply

#23 Yoda

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:13 PM

Good point Topher. Plus its been really cold here up in the mountains like 10-20deg. I don't want to spend more time waiting on DFS. Thanks

#24 Yoda

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:39 PM

ISO 80 does deliver the best dynamic range, which if thats what you're going for then its the best place to be. Just make sure your histograms are in the right place so you're not clipping any data. However, the best SNR has been found to be at around 1200ish for the Sony sensor thats in the K-5.


Topher I'm a little confused on the 1200ISO being the best SNR. Is this from your experience? On the Techradar site i got this graph. Is the SNR looked at differently with Astro photography? Does it have to do with time? Sorry for all the questions.

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#25 rflinn68

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:54 PM

I'm not familiar with the Pentax but ISO 800 works best for me with the 1100D Canon. You just have to find a happy medium in the signal to noise. The more subs you take along with the calibration frames will lessen the noise. The biggest percentage of images you will see are shot at ISO 800 or 1600. I might shoot at ISO 1200 if my camera gave me the option. It doesnt, I believe mine is 100,200,400,800,1600,3200, and 6400.






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