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Monster Saturn Nights April 5/6th+MOREanimations !

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#26 Kokatha man

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:55 AM

{{{speechless}}}


.....I'll have to take that as a compliment Paul..?!? :question: :lol:

I have some nice animations that'd need to be posted as a link to another site with larger filesize limits or maybe get off my backside and learn how to You-Tube them... :)

Also some WinJupos jobs etc.....looking again at Paul (Bunyon's) latest thread has made me do an invert of the first rgb in this thread: I've posted these before but seeing his got me inverting one of these fellas and I think they not only look cool but also inverting/creating colour negatives highlights aspects of the image from other perspectives. :)

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#27 idp

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:23 AM

Totally awed. I loved the great details at the edge of the temperate zone. Incredible images, congratulations! I'll have to switch from eyeball to digital sooner or later :(

Ivano

#28 Gupise

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:50 AM

My jaw hits the ground, really :bigshock:
Congrats

#29 sfugardi

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:26 AM

Mo, insane quality! The 200% image holds the detail nicely. Very impressive work. I'm still waiting for an above average seeing chance at Saturn. Thanks for posting

Regards,
Steve

#30 Mert

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 04:17 PM

How come you continuously are improving Darryl??
You've now really set an unreachable limit for the
simple mortals like me!
By the way, contemplating these incredible images too
long wacked my laptop screen out of collimation LOL !!!!
Superstuff Darryl :bow::bow:

#31 BKBrown

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 04:23 PM

I'm with you on the gain, I often have it maxed out and just count on the numbers to help mitigate noise. I am curious as to how many frames you are collecting per channel, and at what frame rate. You probably mentioned this somewhere in the vast body of discussions in various threads lately but I would appreciate a quick recoup if you are willing :grin: Thanks!

Clear Skies,
Brian

#32 Yuri_18

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:17 PM

Excellent!!!

#33 SYH

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:47 PM

Incomparable Saturn :applause: :applause: :applause:

#34 Kokatha man

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:01 AM

Thanks very much for the kind comments Ivano, Gupise, Steve, Mert, Yuri and SYH.....Pat and I appreciate these responses to our imaging work very much!

Brian, I'm posting a few of the logs texts from these captures in the post after this one to give you an idea of what we use.....if you want to see some more just let me know..! :grin:

Also as per the edits I've signalled in the first post at the top of this thread, here is an animation of 2 rgb images from Langhorne Creek..... :)

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#35 Kokatha man

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:03 AM

.....and here's those log texts Brian. :)

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#36 mann

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:44 AM

2XAmazing!!

#37 mitovka

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:31 AM

Incredible results Darryl. I wish you this kind of seeing for next 2 months at least... Or better.

#38 Kokatha man

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:43 AM

Thanks Mogens - we're out in the field again right now.....promising forecasts but you just never really know!

We left pretty late this afternoon as Pat was having lunch with a girlfriend in the city, but we were pleased to have everything set up in just over half an hour tonight.....and in the dark too! :grin:

Re-applied the primary mirror locks properly before we left home tonight so we may have to search a bit to get the image on the chip and align the finderscope, and collimation will need a bit more work than usual: as I've said a couple of times I'm quite convinced that one factor working very much in our favour these days is said primary lock/mirror stabilisers.....I'm pretty convinced that C14's (or at least this one!) suffer from collimation errors due to the mirror moving ever-so-slightly when you move from the star-testing to the planet after collimation - and this doesn't happen anymore..! :)

#39 Kokatha man

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:43 AM

Thanks also Michal! :)

#40 mikewirths

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:11 PM

Thats an insanely fantastic image Darryl!!! I think you might need a bigger scope ;)

cheers

Mike

#41 Kokatha man

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:38 PM

Thats an insanely fantastic image Darryl!!! I think you might need a bigger scope ;)

cheers

Mike


Thanks Mike! The thought has crossed my mind but it won't be the 16" newtonian that I planned to set up in my backyard when I finally get an observatory.....tbh I just don't think Newts really cut it as planetary scopes; maybe the old f8 or so units perhaps - but who wants a 10 or 12 foot OTA..? :shocked: :)

And while we're still upright & mobile we'd prefer to travel with whatever we use.....the C14 has plenty more up its sleeve imho especially with the planets down here over the next few years or so - we've principally just got to keep on breathing..! :question: :lol:

A custom 18" DK cassegrain has crossed my mind a couple of times.....a lot of money though!!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

Tonight has been so-so, maybe one or two decent images, maybe not, but I was right in a post above about getting the planet on the sensor and the finder aligned, it was a devil of a job and re-applying the primary locks/stabilisers threw the collimation for a six.....only time I've seen it further out was when we took the old C11 to pieces and re-asssembled it!!!

Anyway, back to the nightly grind....! :)

#42 lcd1080

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:54 PM

..I'm pretty convinced that C14's (or at least this one!) suffer from collimation errors due to the mirror moving ever-so-slightly when you move from the star-testing to the planet after collimation - and this doesn't happen anymore..! :)

Darryl I'm convinced that achieving the best possible collimation precision is the "sine qua non" of expert SCT operations. My Latin teacher would smile if she read this :grin:

#43 Kokatha man

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:48 PM

..I'm pretty convinced that C14's (or at least this one!) suffer from collimation errors due to the mirror moving ever-so-slightly when you move from the star-testing to the planet after collimation - and this doesn't happen anymore..! :)

Darryl I'm convinced that achieving the best possible collimation precision is the "sine qua non" of expert SCT operations. My Latin teacher would smile if she read this :grin:


Heck Pete - I remember rote-like verb etc conjugating in Latin for 3 years as a kid....."without which it could not be" is pretty spot-on: a poorly collimated scope is next to useless imo! :shocked: :(

I suspect this peccadillo (miniscule mirror shift affecting fine collimation) is a feature of a lot of C14's.....that's just a hunch but there's much more mirror mass compared to our old C11: I believe the locks/stabilizers are having a significant impact on our imaging outcomes these days...

This morning's efforts will be lucky if they produce anything worth posting etc but we did work out another ploy to assist us with the variable amplifier we made - and we look at every imaging session as productive regardless of the actual image outcomes, as long as we learn something..! :)

#44 wenjha

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:32 AM

that's fantastic image Darryl!
the Hex pole is rotating

#45 jpb30

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:42 AM

yess!!! Fantastic image :)good job Darryl

JP

#46 Kokatha man

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:38 AM

that's fantastic image Darryl!
the Hex pole is rotating


.....I hope it is Sam!!! :question: :lol:

Thank you, and thank you also Jean P - I had a great time looking at your website JP.....and although my French comprehension is very poor I understood quite a lot with the help of all the images! :)

I had made many similar alterations to my C11 a few years ago and the C14 will undergo some similar modifications after this Saturn apparition is finished.....I note that you have employed those knurled knob set-screws for the other 2 arms of the primary mirror assembly - they not only act as lock screws but also reinforce the stability of the main mirror so that collimation does not change.....something I also have done and I believe has helped me personally with my C14's imaging outcomes by achieving very stable collimation at any scope angle! :)

#47 MvZ

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:03 AM

Insane detail... again...

How fast is the hex structure actually rotating? It would be nice if you could see it rotate relative to features around it..?

#48 Kokatha man

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:13 PM

Insane detail... again...

How fast is the hex structure actually rotating? It would be nice if you could see it rotate relative to features around it..?


Hi Emil - I'm sure you've looked at some of this type of info but I'll post it here at the bottom of this post with some relevant parts of a couple of emails between myself and Mike Foulkes (BAA Saturn Director) relevant to your post.....

We've imaged a distinct bright spot right next to one of the Hex's vertices on 2 occassions this apparition (5th March & 25th March) and thought they might be the same feature.....here's part of my email and Mike's reply although I haven't followed up with any inferences there might need clarifying in his answer.....you'll see by the "potted" summary of the NPZ's hex further down that it might well be this bright feature shifting in longitude relative to the hex - but as said I haven't clarified that as yet with him..... :question:

Me <“In the rgb16393 image (March 25th) I note a bright spot very high in the Northern latitudes right next to one of the NPZ’s hexagonal vertices…..I haven’t measured this feature yet but believe it is very likely the same spot I would’ve drawn your attention to in my March 5th images…..”>

Mike Foulkes <”…..with this in mind the white spots in the hexagon come out at System 3 = 149 and 101 on 5 March and 25 March respectively.”>

Here's a bit of material I pulled off the internet on Saturn etc - might be superceded for all I know but thought it worth posting for anyone's interest! :)

Astronomers using infrared imaging have shown that Saturn has a warm polar vortex, and is the only such planet known in the solar system.

A persisting hexagonal wave pattern around the north polar vortex in the atmosphere at about 78°N was first noted in the Voyager images.[3][4] Unlike the north pole, HST imaging of the south polar region indicates the presence of a jet stream, but no strong polar vortex nor any hexagonal standing wave.[5] However, NASA reported in November 2006 that the Cassini spacecraft observed a 'hurricane-like' storm locked to the south pole that had a clearly defined eyewall.[6] This observation is particularly notable because eyewall clouds have not been seen on any planet other than Earth (including a failure to observe an eyewall in the Great Red Spot of Jupiter by the Galileo spacecraft).[7]

The straight sides of the northern polar hexagon are each about 13,800 kilometers long. The entire structure rotates with a period of 10h 39m 24s, the same period as that of the planet's radio emissions, which is assumed to be equal to the period of rotation of Saturn's interior. The hexagonal feature does not shift in longitude like the other clouds in the visible atmosphere. (my embolding)

The pattern's origin is a matter of much speculation. Most astronomers seem to favor some sort of standing-wave pattern in the atmosphere; but the hexagon might be a novel sort of aurora. More extreme speculation has Saturn's radio emissions emanating from the hexagon (something we can see and which has the right rotation period) rather than from the planet's interior (something we cannot see).[8] Polygon shapes have been replicated in spinning buckets of fluid on laboratory scales.[9]

Rotational behavior:

Since Saturn does not rotate on its axis at a uniform rate, multiple rotation periods have been assigned to it (as in Jupiter's case): System I has a period of 10 h 14 min 00 s (844.3°/d) and encompasses the Equatorial Zone, which extends from the northern edge of the South Equatorial Belt to the southern edge of the North Equatorial Belt. All other Saturnian latitudes have been assigned a rotation period of 10 h 39 min 24 s (810.76°/d), which is System II. System III, based on radio emissions from the planet, has a period of 10 h 39 min 22.4 s (810.8°/d); because it is very close to System II, it has largely superseded it.

While approaching Saturn in 2004, the Cassini spacecraft found that the radio rotation period of Saturn had increased slightly, to approximately 10 h 45 m 45 s (± 36 s).[10] The cause of the change is unknown — however, it is thought that this is due to a movement of the radio source to a different latitude inside Saturn, with a different rotational period, rather than an actual change in Saturn's rotation.

In March of 2007 it was reported that the variance in measured rotation periods may actually be caused by geyser activity on Saturn's moon Enceladus. The water vapor emitted into Saturnian orbit by this activity becomes charged and "weighs down" Saturn's magnetic field, slowing its rotation slightly relative to the rotation of the planet itself. If true, this means that there is no currently known method of determining the actual rotation rate of Saturn's core.

reference: http://space.wikia.com/wiki/Saturn


We have so much data to sift and process atm and we collected more yesterday morning..... :)

#49 Kokatha man

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:37 PM

ps: for anyone reading this last post the nub of the matter is that IF the bright spot we imaged on 5th & 25th March is one and the same then it has drifted 48° in longitude over a 20 day period.....the NPZ hex itself remains stationary wrt longitudinal drift.

#50 MvZ

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:35 AM

Thanks for the information Darryl!






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