Jump to content


Photo

PAL version of SCB-4000

  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 Puck Ja

Puck Ja

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 964
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2012
  • Loc: OK, USA

Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:52 AM

Due to its slower shutter (1/50), the PAL version can do longer integration (~10 sec). I plan to use the USB frame grabber and display that on laptop and may be further stacking via DSS.

However, I called B&H and surveillance-video.com but both do not carry the PAL version at US. I wonder if anyone had good hint on that.

Thanks!

#2 mclewis1

mclewis1

    Thread Killer

  • *****
  • Posts: 10750
  • Joined: 25 Feb 2006
  • Loc: New Brunswick, Canada

Posted 12 April 2013 - 01:34 PM

I'd check for versions sold in the UK and Australia. Samsung does some strange things with model numbers to sell the same product in different geographic markets. Also have a look for the Samsung A2333 which is just about the same camera as the 4000, it is/was definitely available with PAL video.

#3 warbird

warbird

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 33
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2007
  • Loc: Sweden

Posted 12 April 2013 - 01:46 PM

I have a PAL version, but cant find out where I bought it. Somewhere in UK, but where...?
Anyway, it is called SCB-4000P (Label on box)

/Mats

Edit: here it is:
Buythis

#4 Puck Ja

Puck Ja

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 964
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2012
  • Loc: OK, USA

Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:21 PM

Thanks for all the replies. I would like to choose PAL simply because of extra 2 sec exposure compare to NTSC version (not because I "need" PAL). The response I got from US vendor was that they cannot sell PAL version in low quantity. Some restriction from Sam maybe?

#5 Atl

Atl

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 501
  • Joined: 13 Apr 2012

Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:55 PM

Question: Beside a slight increase (very slight) in resolution what are the advantages of PAL?

#6 Puck Ja

Puck Ja

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 964
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2012
  • Loc: OK, USA

Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:26 PM

Not other advantages (but disadvantage if one want to directly view the analogue feed) as far as I know.

10/8= 25% improvement which may not be "very slight". :)

#7 Dragon Man

Dragon Man

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2054
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2006
  • Loc: Snake Valley, Australia

Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:02 PM

Puck, you can buy the PAL SCB-4000 (SCC-A2333) here in Australia.

I bought mine from a Security Service about half an hour drive from my house.

You can use PAL the same as NTSC on any computer.
The only time you wil have a problem using PAL in the USA is when you want to do direct feed into a TV or monitor.
But that can be overcome by using a Video Enhancer/Stabiliser.

I actually do the opposite. Even though I have the PAL Samsung SCC-A2333 I also have an NTSC Mallincam Xtreme.
If I want to plug the NTSC Mallincam into a TV (we have PAL here) I use the Video Enhancer. But mostly it is always used straight into my laptop for broadcasting.

If you end up with the SCB-4000 (SCC-A2333) I made a tutorial on how to remove the built-in IR fliter :waytogo:

HERE: http://www.cloudynig...4405444/page...

and how to make a simple wired remote control for it

HERE: http://www.cloudynig...4117126/page...

and then, if you are a glutton for punishment, a cooling project for it :lol:

HERE: http://www.cloudynig.../Number/4584518

#8 Puck Ja

Puck Ja

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 964
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2012
  • Loc: OK, USA

Posted 13 April 2013 - 03:39 PM

Ken, thanks for all the nice information. It was your YouTube video hook me on SCB-4000 PAL version. The video from 10-sec 12" Dob really prompt me to go this route. :)

IR filter has to go since I will use it for DSO. And your TEC cooling project also very interesting to try.

But I am in US and have no easy way to get PAL version. :(

#9 Dragon Man

Dragon Man

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2054
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2006
  • Loc: Snake Valley, Australia

Posted 14 April 2013 - 06:27 AM

Puck, if you can't find a PAL supplier in USA have a look at this map and search in all the countries marked in Blue. They are all PAL countries.

Attached Files



#10 warbird

warbird

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 33
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2007
  • Loc: Sweden

Posted 14 April 2013 - 07:26 AM

...
But I am in US and have no easy way to get PAL version. :(

IYou have a link in my post above. Click on it, press Buy, how hard is that? :-)

#11 Dragon Man

Dragon Man

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2054
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2006
  • Loc: Snake Valley, Australia

Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:44 AM

...
But I am in US and have no easy way to get PAL version. :(

IYou have a link in my post above. Click on it, press Buy, how hard is that? :-)


That is an excellent price. Works out to be only $311.00 US dollars. Even after freight costs it is cheap.

I paid $490.00 for mine.

#12 warbird

warbird

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 33
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2007
  • Loc: Sweden

Posted 14 April 2013 - 12:25 PM

Yes, I understand it is a good price. But when buying from US it may be a good idea to send a note to the seller that it is the PAL version that is wanted! :smirk:

#13 Puck Ja

Puck Ja

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 964
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2012
  • Loc: OK, USA

Posted 14 April 2013 - 04:59 PM

Thanks, warbird. I missed your later added link. That was not hard once you found it. :)

#14 warbird

warbird

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 33
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2007
  • Loc: Sweden

Posted 15 April 2013 - 12:54 AM

Thanks, warbird. I missed your later added link. That was not hard once you found it. :)

:jump: Hope you will enjoy it! :jump:

#15 Dragon Man

Dragon Man

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2054
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2006
  • Loc: Snake Valley, Australia

Posted 15 April 2013 - 01:30 AM

Hey Puck, please keep us updated on your purchase and first use of it :waytogo:

#16 Puck Ja

Puck Ja

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 964
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2012
  • Loc: OK, USA

Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:44 AM

Definitely! Thanks for all the good info.

Although I am still wondering if I should get SCB-4000 or Lodestar depending on if 10-sec integration time would be sufficient for what I want to see and what I have.

My goal is to use XT8 to see as much DSO details as possible from my driveway NELM=3 (east sky) to 5 (zenith and west sky). I will use EQ platform for <1 min tracking.

The Samsung has 10-sec limitation but 1/2 price. That is my tradeoff.

#17 Dragon Man

Dragon Man

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2054
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2006
  • Loc: Snake Valley, Australia

Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:31 AM

Puck, what I have found is that with the Samsung's sensitivity I often end up REDUCING the Sens-up, not wanting to increase it.

I have many top results from dropping back to 5 seconds and increasing brightness and Contrast in the computer capture software.
Sometime, on some objects, 10 seconds is just too much.
It is a very sensitive chip.

#18 Puck Ja

Puck Ja

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 964
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2012
  • Loc: OK, USA

Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:44 PM

Ken, thanks for the sharing.

Did you reduce the sens-up in order to reduce noise or reduce star blooming? My main interest is to observe DSO.

In order to combat with LP and moon, I do plan to use some filter. Also, I only got a 8". So it seems getting more exposure capability may be beneficial.

And your sky seems to be quite good. :)

#19 Dragon Man

Dragon Man

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2054
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2006
  • Loc: Snake Valley, Australia

Posted 18 April 2013 - 11:33 AM

Puck, I reduced the sens-up to below 10 seconds often because of burnout. Objects like M42 (Orion nebula) suffer severe core burnout at 10 seconds and that is with an ED80 telescope!
An 8" would be even worse.

Also bright Nebulae like Carina nebula and Tarantula nebula also burnout easily at 10 seconds.

Some large Globular clusters also appear cleaner and more colorful at around 5 seconds.

Jewelbox Custer looks far better around 3 - 4 seconds. It allows the colors of all the stars to pop out rather than making them all look like bright white dots.

#20 Puck Ja

Puck Ja

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 964
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2012
  • Loc: OK, USA

Posted 18 April 2013 - 12:11 PM

Thanks a lot for the precious info. However, I will mainly use astrovideo for the "fussy faints" because I was a visual guy but just cannot get more details from the dimmer DSO. Therefore, I would like to use astrovideo to probe faint details (dust lanes instead core) from the DSOs such as M51, M101, M33, M81/82, etc.

Also to address the burnout/over-exposure issue, is it usually done by using shorter-exposure subframe and then stack them with some intelligence? This calls for high dynamic range imaging which may not achievable with video unless some exotic optics such as digital mirror array (TI's DMD) is used.

#21 Puck Ja

Puck Ja

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 964
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2012
  • Loc: OK, USA

Posted 05 May 2013 - 06:48 PM

Just for the closure of this thread, I finally got the Lodestar to give me longer exposure time. And I was glad that I spend the extra money on it and the Atlas mount for the longer exposure time. In the first night I used it to view M51 live (just use the simplest setting out of the control software without dark frame), I was happy with the 1-minute exposure out of my XT8. I might be wanting more with the 8 or 10 sec integration (max) out of the SCB-4000, but I will not know it for sure.

The tracking of Atlas was very solid and I was amazed by the good resolution and focused image out of this setup. :)






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics