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Which CPC?

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#1 Seiko4169

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:37 PM

I'm trying to settle on a single main scope and having tried various sizes from 3" to 8" of SCT's from the Celestron and Meade stable I'm drawn once again to the CPC range.

This scope will certainly be used for 90% visual work but with the idea that a little AP might come into the mix in the future.

I view from my garden and as such have a level of LP to contend with. I'm also based in the UK so seeing is never particularly great.


Anyway, in a effort to finally settle on a scope and whilst I'm still young enough not to worry about the weight I thought I could get the CPC1100, aperture rules after all?

However, with the ever growing reputation of the Edge series though is it worth considering a smaller Edge version? For example the 9.25 Edge? It suggests an updated fork mount as well and has the vents and mirror lock?


If I consider average "seeing" though are these sizes overkill and I should simply stick with the 8" like I've used in the past?

Any advice would really be appreciated as I've gone round in circles too often and I'd really like to think that this purchase is going to last for many years to come?

Many thanks,

:crazy:

#2 DrBoring

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 06:36 PM

Hey seico! If you are still deciding, then I suggest google search 'review cloudy nights CPC " and enter various inputs like 800, 9.25, 1100 and also these values with "vs".

I'm using my phone right now : ( or I'd try and find the link that shows a general comparison review of these models or of these vs edge hd. I found it very useful info, but still went with what I could find used in my budget : )

You might check the classifieds here as I think there are a few cpc 1100 for sale.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

#3 mclewis1

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:16 PM

It would be hard to imagine a better visual scope than an Edge HD based CPC. The alt az setup is very simple and comfortable to use and the optics are simply some of the best ever in an SCT.

One thing you need to balance against "aperture rules" is the weight of the of scope and how easy it is to setup. Your viewing environment will dictate some of the restrictions (any stairs, do you have to lift it, how far to carry the scope, can it be left setup and on wheels, etc?). Don't dismiss the additional weight of the 9.25 and 1100 scopes, they are a lot to lug around ... especially in the dark. While you can see more with a larger aperture scope it's no match for a smaller scope that gets used more often.

#4 herrointment

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:04 PM

Could not agree more. I like my CPC1000 HD but the 8SE sees more use. The big fella takes some commitment in time and energy and I am sorely lacking both after a long day. The CPC 1100 has become a "special conditions" scope and I'm fine with that. Having both scopes on hand is a wonderful luxury.

#5 MikeBOKC

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:16 AM

I think the 9.25 edge CPC would be the perfect answer to your stated desires, with the potential for wedge-mounted AP down the road.

#6 Seiko4169

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 05:28 AM

Thanks,

Well it's down to three,

CPC 1100
CPC 1100 deluxe

Outside chance
CPC 9.25 deluxe

I am really drawn to the 11 as I think it's now or never to get a scope that size. Thankfully it can sit in the conservatory and will only need to be carried a maximum of 12 ft for viewing. Only problem is the price of the HD version is 2K more than the regular? The regular CPC is clearly the best bang for the buck is a relatively old design now.

#7 mclewis1

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:38 AM

If at all possible handle a large SCT (NexStar GPS or CPC 9.25/1100) before you buy. Take it apart/set it up and be sure you can comfortably handle the scope. There isn't much difference in the weight between the 9.25 and 1100 scopes.

#8 Starhawk

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:03 PM

Here's a big thing to know: a C11 on a CPC 1100 mount: 65 lbs. Thats a lot. It's a heck of a lot when you have to negotiate doors and move outside. It's heavy combined with clumsy and fragile. Then if you want to go on a wedge- that gets scary (I've done it a lot).

However, if you take the C11 off the forks, now it weighs 25lbs and is just a large paint bucket to move around, and is very easy in comparison. Likewise, a gem mount head is compact and fairly rugged, so it is much easier to move.

But in food for thought, a gem mounted C8 is only 15 lbs and very easy to move, and mine has always given better views than the C11. They both started out on forks. Neither is, today.

-Rich

#9 Seiko4169

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:13 PM

thanks Rich,

I have an Edge HD 8 already and really did consider a GEM mount. I just cant see myself messing around with one though. I looked at the Sky-Watcher AZ-EQ6GT so I could at least use it in Alt Az mode but that's a chunk of money so I kind of arrived back at the CPC for sheer convenience.

Other that the cost I really like the look of the CPC1100 Deluxe HD.

I would have settled for a standard CPC1100 but everyone is buying into the Edge marketing :) so it looks like I have a dilemma on my hands?

#10 Footbag

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:10 PM

I had the CPC-800 but ended up going the GEM route mainly for imaging, but also to save weight. I have a bad back and just lifting the CPC-800 was a task. I now have more lighter parts. The heaviest part is the mount head at 29LBS.

I think you've already been sufficiently warned about the weight of the CPC-1100. Nobody can tell you what you can handle, but yourself.

The only thing I'll add is that the Edge is worth it in my opinion.

#11 Seiko4169

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:21 PM

Thanks Adam,

I had the CPC800 and got rid of it as I'd just come from a Nexstar 8i so visually I'd gained nothing. I used to carry the CPC800 downstairs and then outside and could manage. I appreciate the CPC1100 is much heavier however it only has to be carried out from the conservatory to the garden.

I'm just struggling with the price at the moment. 4k on a scope is a lot of money (for me at least) and I have no idea what to expect from the visual improvement over the 8.

#12 pcctex

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:20 PM

Just a mention regarding lugging an 1100CPC Edge around.... Read the post dealing with the "$60 storage case". I wheel my 1100CPC Edge everywhere in the wheeled storage box. My only lift is to mount it on the tripod. As long as you are not negotiating stairs, the box solves most of the weight issues associated with 11" CPC's.

Best of Luck

#13 snowcrow

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:39 PM

You can always put the CPC1100 on a pier like this.

#14 herrointment

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:26 PM

You views will improve noticeably over the C8. A bit more of everything. You won't be bowled over. It is a bigger scope and DSO's really start to show. In steady skies the planets are all more detailed. Is that improvement worth $4000.00? That's a tough one!

#15 Seiko4169

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:55 AM

You views will improve noticeably over the C8. A bit more of everything. You won't be bowled over. It is a bigger scope and DSO's really start to show. In steady skies the planets are all more detailed. Is that improvement worth $4000.00? That's a tough one!


Yes, exactly that is a tough one but I do need a main scope as the little N5i is too small and I miss the bright views of globulars etc. I'm just weighing up what to get really.


CPC 1100 Edge (The big one, in every way, would be the best I'd certainly ever likely to own or need but what happens when the CPC Ultimate is released in a few years that has QUIET slewing. (Are you listening Celestron). Also, its a bulky unit and I don't believe people are exaggerating one bit about the weight and dragging it out at night! The cool down times might prevent a lot of use too as I'd have to set it up pretty quickly at the start of the night to get any use out of it at all. Of course, active cooling fans can be bought but that's even MORE expense.


CPC 1100 (Big but doesn't break the bank but how will I feel after a month or two knowing it's not the Edge, doesn't have cooling vents, mirror lock etc). It's still a chunk of money and I don't want it to feel like a compromise). It still has the cooling issues and weight issues that might mean it doesn't get used as much as a primary scope should!

CPC 9.25, CPC 9.25 Edge - I see no advantage to this one, too close in size/weight, very similar to the 8 visually and not much cheaper than the 1100? This would feel like an incremental upgrade to my 8's in the past.

CPC 800, CPC Edge - The baby of the bunch and having already previously owned the CPC800 I know what to expect. The cash saved compared to the 1100 would be 2K on Edge alone never mind the standard version, allowing me to buy all those lovely accessories, eyepieces etc.

So, yes, it's a dilemma. If I had a chance to view the 1100 in person here in the UK it would be so much easier.

:tonofbricks:

So I guess another question...

Two choices as they are at the same price point...

Standard CPC 1100 or CPC 800 Edge?

#16 Starhawk

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 08:58 AM

Improving views over a well tuned edge HD C8 is pretty hard. Meanwhile, usage is inversely proportional to the square of the mass. CPC1100s need time and a buried needle on the motivometer to get it out the door. In my own case, I have a C11 which has yet to show anything visually from the city I couldn't see in the C8. All it does on planets is push another 40% magnification I can't use, while making it impossible to get objects like the double cluster in one field.

-Rich

#17 herrointment

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 01:18 PM

I'd agree with what Rich said......look, it's a tough question to answer.

You can always buy what you are most interested in and return it if it doesn't meet expectations. You'll be out a fair bit of coin on the re-stocking fee. There is no free lunch although I can recommend the tuna salad.

Good luck!

#18 Gary.McK

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:57 PM

Hi,

I've just been down this path and ended up buying a CPC 1100. Why?

Aperture, I live in central Melbourne Australia, 4 million people and lots of light pollution. Put it next to my 8 inch newt and I can see heaps more despite the light pollution. I don't look at the edge of the field, so a small bit of field curvature doesn't bother me. There is a lot less than I expected - though I'm only using Hyperions with a 68 deg field. Dont miss vents - remember hthe edge needs them as it has no way for hot air to escape otherwise. I just stick my scope out with its bum in the air for a while and it cools fine. I have to carry it up a flight of stairs to view, and at 61 yo I can do it without problem - I'm not built like a footballer either! Imaging? at 2.8 meters focal length? get a PMX or similar. I'll just put a refractor on top and use that. or do some planetary webcam stuff. Lovely scope and I am exceedingly happy - the optics are stunning. Had my best ever view of Saturn 2 weeks ago at 400x...blew me away.

FWIW
cheers
Gary

#19 Seiko4169

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:45 AM

Thanks Gary, sound like you made a great choice. I'm still dwelling so obviously haven't arrived at my 'right' decision yet :(

#20 HeyJP

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:55 AM

I think Gary from Down Under makes some good sense. I picked up a CPC 1100 on eBay last summer after a decade with a Celestar 8. LOTS of bang for the buck. I'm not trying to compete with Jason Ware and the Hubble for photos, just want to have a little fun and capture my own. Plus 80% of the time I just want to put faint objects millions of light years away on my very own eyeballs. From my deck in downtown Boulder CO, the GoTo is wonderful!!! Even though I can't see all that many stars towards town, I can still find and see many deep sky objects with the GoTo. We don't get many nights of good seeing, being smack up against the mountains here... but on the rare good seeing night, or on a weekend trip to Utah... Saturn, the moon and Jupiter are amazing.

I'm enjoying my 1100!!

Jim

#21 Seiko4169

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:37 PM

Thanks Jim, yes he does, I'm just trying to ensure I end up with the one I genuinely want and think has value to me. At the moment it's the edge 1100 but only if I can get it at the price I'm trying to get it at.

#22 A. Viegas

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 09:15 PM

I actually have both the cpc1100 and older celestar C8, just like Jim. I have set my cpc1100 outside with a telegizmo cover. I use it as my main imaging scope, my C8 I use as my travel scope.

Like Jim I suggest you try and buy used. You can often get very good deals and save enough for a second scope,,this way you can have a primary larger and less moveable setup and then have a smaller and more mobile scope/mount combination. For the price of a brand new CPC1100'standard or edge you can get two setups used...

Just my 2c

Al

#23 Seiko4169

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:14 AM

thanks, I normally buy used the only exception to that rule has been my ETX90 EC many years ago. I quickly found buying used saves me a good 3rd.

Alas, I have yet to see a CPC Deluxe come up for sale. I missed an "as new" standard CPC9.25 a few motnhs ago because I had decided on an Edge 8HD and Nextar mount as my grab and go. The new Nextar SE mounts are awful though compared to my 5i (noisier and slower) so I've had to rethink.

Weirdly, accepting a CPC actually means its going to be even slower and noisier but at least it is stable!

So yes, if I can find a used Deluxe I'll grab it or a larger standard CPC at the right price.

#24 Starhawk

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 11:54 AM

The CPC should be quieter. They're essentially silent when tracking and pretty quiet when maneuvering. The older NexStar GPS scopes are extremely quiet overall, though they are also slower.

-Rich
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#25 gaz-in

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 12:45 PM

If you are buying used, and Edge is not critical to you, I encourage you to consider the Nexstar GPS series.

I have recently owned a CPC 800 and a Nexstar 8 GPS. The optics in both were comparible. After that the Nexstar GPS was far superior. Better tracking, much quieter, no cord wrap to fool with, etc....

I would really love to figure a way to mount my Edge on my NExstar 8 GPS mount...

They can be had pretty cheap too. I got my Nexstar 8 GPS with JMI case for $875.

While sold, here is an exammple:

Nexstar 8 GPS on CN






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