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AP 178 f/9 Questions

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#26 Joe Bergeron

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:23 PM

Out of curiosity I decided to subject my 1400mm FL scope to some rap tests tonight and time the results. Depending on how I hit the focuser, damping times ranged from 1-2 seconds. The total payload on the mount was about 32 pounds.

#27 Cotts

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:19 PM

Before you spend a lot of dosh on a big mount why not try a Hargreaves Strut ?

If the scope's weight is not a problem for your G11 but its length and moment arm are this may be a solution for you for under $100...

At least you could slap one together until you find the right mount.....

Dave

#28 Joe Bergeron

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:32 PM

That's a good idea.

#29 stevenwav

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:11 PM

Thanks Bob! I actually tried to contact a couple of folks on Amart that had older ads for 800's that weren't marked SOLD. I may look into that if they get back to me, especially if I can't put a deal together for an older 900.

#30 stevenwav

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:24 PM

I cant wait to get the Superplanetary and the 178 set up. This particular 178s OTA has been cut down for binoviewing so it will be my "cruiser", just scanning the milky way etc. I figured that the 6" will be my go to planetary and lunar machine under the average lousy jet stream ridden skies we have here in New England. It should max out the view on most nights. When the seeing is better, I will bring out the DK 10".
As a visual observer with many cloudy nights and light polluted skies, I decided that I need aperture, the fast cool down times and the ease of use of the refractor, so that I can see all I can with short notice and hectic work schedule. I can always fall back on my excellent tmb 100 for real grab and go. Plus, I couldn't pass up the opportunity to grab these legends as they became available. I will do what it takes to adjust my mounts to accommodate them and I appreciate all of this input.

#31 stevenwav

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:30 PM

Before you spend a lot of dosh on a big mount why not try a Hargreaves Strut ?

If the scope's weight is not a problem for your G11 but its length and moment arm are this may be a solution for you for under $100...

At least you could slap one together until you find the right mount.....

Dave


Whoa! That's a new one on me. Thanks Dave!

#32 JJK

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:17 AM

Tanveer, there's no doubt the AP178 will overwhelm a G11.

#33 Jeff B

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:24 PM

I cant wait to get the Superplanetary and the 178 set up. This particular 178s OTA has been cut down for binoviewing so it will be my "cruiser", just scanning the milky way etc. I figured that the 6" will be my go to planetary and lunar machine under the average lousy jet stream ridden skies we have here in New England. It should max out the view on most nights. When the seeing is better, I will bring out the DK 10".
As a visual observer with many cloudy nights and light polluted skies, I decided that I need aperture, the fast cool down times and the ease of use of the refractor, so that I can see all I can with short notice and hectic work schedule. I can always fall back on my excellent tmb 100 for real grab and go. Plus, I couldn't pass up the opportunity to grab these legends as they became available. I will do what it takes to adjust my mounts to accommodate them and I appreciate all of this input.


Do not underestimate the 178's planetary performance. It will be supurb. Also, consider this, for nights with lousy seeing, you can always stop down the 178 to 6" or even 5".

I'm curious to see it the 178 is air gapped or not. If it is, you got the best of the pre-EDT scopes. I had two of the 6" F9's that were airspaced. Man! NO COLOR! Even racking around focus. However, it will take longer to thermally settle out relative to the oils spaced design.

Also, I've an APM 178 F8 and fully dressed out (with bin-viewers, 60mm finder, aft weight ring and aft counterposie weight), is pushing 50 pounds but my G11 handled it ok for visual use. Vibration was a bit of low frequency rocking but focusing at high power was fine, but like, the others said, wind was the issue. My older Losmandy GM100 was a noticably better match but the AP 900GTO is wonderful. I use the G11 pier with an AP/Losmandy adapter set.

The real issue will be the process you use to install the 178 on the mount, regardless of the mount. But that gets easier the more you weight train using overhead lifts :grin:.

Pictures, give us pictures!

Jeff

#34 SteveG

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:40 PM

Before you spend a lot of dosh on a big mount why not try a Hargreaves Strut ?

If the scope's weight is not a problem for your G11 but its length and moment arm are this may be a solution for you for under $100...

At least you could slap one together until you find the right mount.....

Dave


Whoa! That's a new one on me. Thanks Dave!


Here's another link:
https://sites.google...hargreavesstrut

#35 stevenwav

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:56 PM

Thanks for the link Steve. That makes it even clearer.

Jeff B - I will send pics as soon as I can get these birds off the ground. If I can get some tastey views of the planets and luna with the 178 bino-viewed - so much the better! Man this is going to be awesome, having these scopes. anticipate receiving the 178 next week. It does get pretty windy quite often here in Central MA. I am really leaning towards a used AP 900 QMD which would also hold my DK 10" in addition to the two AP's. I am looking into getting an adjustable portable pier as well that I could affix to castors for ease of movement. I love the idea of the adjustable height portable pier to save me from having to step up to mount the scopes. I am 5'11" and while I am not too worried about lifting the weight, I am concerned about the awkwardness due to the length. I don't have any observing buddies locally so I need to make this process as user-friendly and fool proof for one person as possible. I must admit thought, once I developed a technique, I was able to mount my 216 mak/newt fairly easily onto my G11, but I didn't have an extension.

On another note, do I need to shine a green laser through the objective to determine air or oil-spaced? If so, can someone tell me what to look for t tell the difference?

#36 TG

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:59 PM

Before you spend a lot of dosh on a big mount why not try a Hargreaves Strut ?

If the scope's weight is not a problem for your G11 but its length and moment arm are this may be a solution for you for under $100...

At least you could slap one together until you find the right mount.....

Dave


Good idea. I had actually thought of building one since I had two of the ScopeStuff rings, one of which I used for the counterweight. But the CGE is steady enough for visual use so I never bothered.

I've never used the G11 but I always thought it was equivalent to the CGE. Perhaps I'm not picky enough.

Tanveer.

#37 Jeff B

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:13 PM

On another note, do I need to shine a green laser through the objective to determine air or oil-spaced? If so, can someone tell me what to look for t tell the difference?


No, though that's an easy way. You'll see the spacers along the edge if it's airspaced. If the 6" F12 is oil spaced, you can use it as a reference.

Enjoy!

Jeff

#38 TG

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:17 PM

Before you spend a lot of dosh on a big mount why not try a Hargreaves Strut ?


If needed, I have the parts list from the Sep 2001 Thomas Dobbins article in S&T. The prices have gone up, though. Just the two universal joints will cost you $82 rather than the $24 in 2001.
Tanveer.

#39 Joe Bergeron

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 02:50 PM

On another note, do I need to shine a green laser through the objective to determine air or oil-spaced? If so, can someone tell me what to look for t tell the difference?


You can just look at the lens. If you see multiple reflections of some light source, it's air spaced. If you see only 2 reflections, it's oiled.

I would be surprised if the 178 wasn't superior to the 6" for planets. In fact, the 6" seems redundant to me, unless you just like to collect things.

#40 Joe Bergeron

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 02:55 PM

the AP 900GTO is wonderful. I use the G11 pier with an AP/Losmandy adapter set.


Do you mean the G11 tripod? You're using it with a 900 mount and a 50 pound load and it works well? I like my G11 tripod, and if I wind up with a 900-1100 mount I'd like to continue to use it, but not if it would compromise stability.

#41 TG

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 02:58 PM


On another note, do I need to shine a green laser through the objective to determine air or oil-spaced? If so, can someone tell me what to look for t tell the difference?


You can just look at the lens. If you see multiple reflections of some light source, it's air spaced. If you see only 2 reflections, it's oiled.


The green laser "test" can be surprisingly hard to interpret. I've attached a picture of one done on the oil-spaced version.

Tanveer.

Attached Files



#42 Mike Clemens

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:35 PM

is that the 178? looks awesome ! more pics plz : ) From that era, I believe if it was air spaced it would have clear air spacing tabs every 120 degrees around the periphery.

#43 gillmj24

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:02 PM

I thought the green laser test was only for fluorite?

#44 The Ardent

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:11 PM

You were standing two feet away from a 900 QMD this weekend and you didnt buy it? :shocked:

I will look into obtaining a 900.



#45 stevenwav

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:12 PM

No I didn't buy the 900 last weekend. I didn't think I would be going in that direction at the time. I know more now thanks to everyone's input.

#46 stevenwav

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:14 PM

I will try this on both scopes, thanks for demo.

#47 richardlowney

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:40 AM

PM sent

#48 etsleds

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 12:40 PM

Agreed on the AP900 - it handles the AP178 for visual with short settle times, solid stability at the eyepiece, sufficient overcapacity to handle heavy accessories & some wind handily.

Will do in a pinch on an EM200, but very fussy and unstable. Have tried both heads on the same ATS pier, it's the head and not the pier/tripod.

#49 etsleds

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:19 AM

Found some pictures...here's how spindly an EM200 with the massive SE-LL tripod looks under an AP178...

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#50 etsleds

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:24 AM

And looking more proper on an AP900...

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