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Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17

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#1 neversummer

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:22 PM

Indoor false alignment multiple times over the past year at 22.5° Celsius, everything works fine as it should, never any errors. Bring it outside and let it adjust to spring time temperatures approx. 8° Celsius, cool down time is 2 hours. Receive a no response 17 error upon slewing to first alignment star. Re-try procedure and get the same error several times. All connectors look new / clean, no corrosion, everything has been unplugged and re-plugged in, tried different power sources and still receive the same error on multiple occasions. Took apart hand control unit, all connectors look new and attached properly. Mount only seems to work outdoors during the summer evenings when it's approx. 18° Celsius. The mount seems to prefer warm temperatures, very frustrating. Any ideas? All I can think of is purchasing a new hand control unit... or a G11!

#2 jrbarnett

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:36 PM

Cold = Bad for cable connections and contacts.

No Response 17 is usually due to a bad connection, most often with the power cable or handset cable. On the power cable, carefully spread the pin inside the post on the plug to create a tighter contact. On the hand controller, dunno. Maybe tape one of those hand warmer satchels to the side of the motor housing so that it hangs down over the cable plug junction and keeps it warmer.

Your best bet is to move to San Diego. Just ask Jon. :grin:

- Jim

#3 neversummer

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:48 PM

Power cable connection is already quite snug, spreading the pin might make it difficult to insert. San Diego would be nice, Hawaii would be better.:usa:

#4 jrbarnett

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:32 PM

I dunno if this would work, but, what if you used a dew controller strips to heat the motor housing that houses the cable insertions?

8C isn't very cold, really, now that I think about it, and even here in California I often use my CG5 at 8C/46F without issue. It sure can be frustrating.

Two years ago my club and I went on a dark sky trip to the Mojave desert.

http://www.cloudynig...hp?item_id=2673

I took a TEC 140 on a Celestron CGE. The first night everything worked perfectly. The next night, I couldn't get power from my battery to my mount. We checked all connections, tested the cables and sockets with a voltmeter, etc., and couldn't find an issue. I even had spare 12V sockets with battery clips, and it didn't matter. Eventually I borrowed a buddy's jumpstart battery, which worked perfectly. The set-up that worked the first night, but not the next, of course works fine here at home. Mystifying.

Hang in there.

- Jim

#5 pjensen

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:06 PM

Indoor false alignment multiple times over the past year at 22.5° Celsius, everything works fine as it should, never any errors. Bring it outside and let it adjust to spring time temperatures approx. 8° Celsius, cool down time is 2 hours. Receive a no response 17 error upon slewing to first alignment star.


This sounds like a cold solder joint. If you are any good with a a soldering iron (small tip) - you might try reheating the solder connections on the circuit board. This is a common problem now that manufacturers have to use lead free solder.

The best way to do this is to have a solder station with a temperature control, a solder sucker (with a motorized vacuum) and use silver solder.

#6 neversummer

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:01 AM

What purpose does this transparent sticky tape serve on the board? Is it just to protect the joints?

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#7 pjensen

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:11 AM

What purpose does this transparent sticky tape serve on the board? Is it just to protect the joints?


It is just to prevent a short circuit with something in the box. You can take it off to work on the board. Just put it back when you are done.

#8 BlueGrass

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:57 AM

Have to say, a number of the header solder points look weak / poorly done. Ideally, they should all look clean, well dressed. If you have the PCB work experience, I'd redo all the header PCB contact points just to clean things up and save some time, by not having to find the cold joint by trial and error. 15 minutes with the right iron and solder could solve the problem. The intermittent contact could also be caused by a poor cable connection in the plug assembly. Good luck.

#9 RTLR 12

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:35 AM

You need to check the DEC circuits, cables and connections from the MC board to the power board (in the lower motor cover) and to the DEC board and to the motor(in the upper motor cover). This should include the external DEC cable and connectors. It could also be a bad encoder or connector on the DEC motor. Check the alignment and air gap of the encoder and encoder wheel.

Stan

#10 rtanton

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:47 AM

Have to say, a number of the header solder points look weak / poorly done. Ideally, they should all look clean, well dressed. If you have the PCB work experience, I'd redo all the header PCB contact points just to clean things up and save some time, by not having to find the cold joint by trial and error. 15 minutes with the right iron and solder could solve the problem. The intermittent contact could also be caused by a poor cable connection in the plug assembly. Good luck.


I agree! Fix those solder joints as a first step.

#11 rmollise

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 02:55 PM

Power cable connection is already quite snug, spreading the pin might make it difficult to insert.


Unlikely. And I have never seen a CG5 that didn't need it done. ;)

#12 neversummer

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:05 PM

Cleaned all the boards but still receiving a No Response 17. Just spread the pin in the power connection so I'll see what happens next time out. If that fails I'll try re-soldering all the joints. Does Celestron still carry CG-5 boards just in case I destroy the ones I have? They're listed on Celestron's website but I can't find a dealer that carries the power and motor boards.

#13 RTLR 12

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:57 PM

You have to buy the boards from Celestron. The last time I bought one it was shipped from Woodland Hills Telescope.

What are the symptoms when the "NO Response 17" is displayed? It could be the encoder on the DEC motor and not the MC board. Try swapping the DEC and RA motor connectors on the MC board and see what happens.

Stan

#14 neversummer

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:06 AM

It will pause for a moment and then slew continuously until I shut off the power

#15 mclewis1

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 11:08 AM

You have to buy the boards from Celestron. Stan

Stan, If you note Neversummer's loc ... Celestron won't sell to him directly. He has to buy from a 3rd party.

Neversummer, Continuous runaway in one axis is very often the encoder/motor assembly. You can swap the motor assembly to prove this. You don't have to completely remove and re install everything. Just set it up on a bench and remove one motor assembly and connect it to the other harness. Then do a mock alignment. If the problem follows the motor assembly it's probably the encoder ... and I would follow Stan's solid guidance about checking the air gap and such. If it doesn't then as mentioned you're likely looking at the wiring harness or motor controller board.

If you are uncertain about going this far I would talk with Ed Thomas at deepspaceproducts.com. He posts here and on the Yahoo/Groups sites very often and is a wealth of knowledge at this level. He might also be a good source of parts should you need them.

#16 rmollise

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:03 PM

Third part from whom? Celestron does sell MC boards IF that is his problem. Which it is likely not.

#17 jrcrilly

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:10 PM

Third part from whom? Celestron does sell MC boards IF that is his problem. Which it is likely not.


Celestron's policy for non-US residents has been to require them to buy parts from the service center in their country.

#18 rmollise

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:14 PM

Yep, missed that this was an overseas customer. Good part is that it's likely a power problem, not a motor control board.

#19 mclewis1

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:11 PM

Yep, missed that this was an overseas customer. Good part is that it's likely a power problem, not a motor control board.

Not overseas ... he's Canadian ... you know that little area up north.
Not likely a power problem ... he's used multiple power sources and addressed the power socket issues ... but connectivity is certainly still a possible issue.

#20 rmollise

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:45 PM

I know where Canada is. Sorta. :lol:

Not sure about Celestron's policy with parts for them, though.

He dealt with the socket (spreading the pin)...but the way I read it he hasn't tried it yet. ;)

#21 mclewis1

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:52 PM

Celestron's parts policy here in the great white north is unfortunately the same as other non US locations ... no sales directly, must use an authorized C dealer (or other 3rd party). :bawling:

Yeah, I'm a little premature on the power socket. I was thinking that he'd have tried it indoors and let us know right away.

#22 neversummer

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:56 PM

Had it running fine indoors for a couple hours today. Last night it was running well until the outside temp. dropped to 6 Celsius which is when I got the NR17 and runaway slew. Next session I'll see if spreading the pin helps during a cold evening. It's the cold temps that bring about the NR17, I can run it indoors for long periods of time without a hitch.

#23 BlueGrass

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 11:06 PM

This really sounds like a cold solder joint /connection problem and it could literally be anywhere in the affected axis wiring and control chain ... encoder, wiring, motor control board. I do hope it's a simple fix such as just reseating the cable connects or a faulty power jack.

#24 rmollise

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 08:21 AM

Or just spreading that silly pin. :lol:

#25 greju

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 12:23 PM

Or just spreading that silly pin. :lol:


Unk, what's the old saying - you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink. ;)






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