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new Cge Pro or LX-850

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#1 davidh1979

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 09:54 AM

i nearly have the money my head is telling me go for
the safe bet with the new cge pro it is now a great mount
with all the new improvements or go with the lx-850 which
is really starting to sound like a good mount but we all
know the horror stories from meade.

#2 DaveJ

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 10:12 AM

i nearly have the money my head is telling me go for
the safe bet with the new cge pro it is now a great mount
with all the new improvements or go with the lx-850 which
is really starting to sound like a good mount but we all
know the horror stories from meade.


The new LX850 is looking extremely attractive! Take a look at what a fellow CNer captured on his first night out with it: link.
Scroll two posts down from his photo to read jrcrilly's comments on the mount.

#3 rmollise

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 10:53 AM

Why not wait a couple of months? See what transpires.

#4 davidh1979

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 11:06 AM

Why not wait a couple of months? See what transpires.


well the cge pro now with +/- 3.4 arc second unguided
seems to have me i will wait a month or two to see
if the lx-850 can beat it.

#5 Whichwayisnorth

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:14 PM

I used to have a CGE-PRO and really miss it. Very solid and dependable. Newer ones have very low native PE and both axis have spring loaded lapped worm gears. The mount features mature software and drivers. Also there are many accessories for it. As I've said many times the ONLY negative thing I ever had to say about the CGE-PRO was that it didn't have internal cable routing. However that isn't a big issue for many folks. Lots of creative ways to route cables so they don't snag. Some people take issue with how tall the mount is. As a tall person I never minded it at all. Much easier to view objects at the Zenith. One last thing is the motors and gears. I found them to be really quiet. I think the CGE-PRO with the forthcoming Starsense addon and using the All Star Polar Align routine will get you to an accurate polar alignment and pointing alignment and that is half the battle.

Whatever choice you make keep in mind "initial quality" vs. "5 year". Like an automobile review that gives a car high marks for initial quality you have to go back after a few years and re-review them to see how they hold up. We know how the CGE-PRO holds up, what about its competition?

#6 gavinm

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:10 PM

Be an early adopter and go for the EQ8 :)

#7 end

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 06:51 PM

Be an early adopter and go for the EQ8 :)


If I were to do it over again, I would probably wait to see if the EQ8 lives up to the early specs. The idea of have dual encoders at that price point sounds really nice. Unfortunately this will probably require a good deal of patience to see how it plays out. On the other hand it would also allow a better data set on the LX850 to be gathered.

#8 wolfman_4_ever

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 07:10 PM

Don't know if you can take the eq8 apart for less weight but the eq8 mount head is almost 63 lbs.. The tripod and pier is 68lbs putting it over the weight of the cge-pro...

I'm just putting that out there... everyone always complains about the pier height and weight of the pro..

You can get an RA encoder for the pro.. I have heard a Dec encoder is in the works.. who knows..

Not sure about the eq8 encoders.. anyone have info.. seems vague.. They talk about PEC on the mount with encoders, but with encoders, there is almost no PE.. Are those encoders just for accurate mount location?

#9 orlyandico

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 07:46 PM

And note that the EQ8 dual encoders are not at all comparable to those in the 10Micron, AP, ASA mounts.

The EQ8 dual encoders are solely for pointing, they are pretty low resolution.

Having used an encoder-equipped GoTo mount (my AP600 + a Littlefoot GoTo controller) I'd say that the ability to declutch, move the mount around by hand and not lose GoTo sync - is a gimmick. Sounds good in theory, but in practice the utility is rather limited.

#10 wolfman_4_ever

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 09:24 PM

Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking they were just positioning encoders.

#11 orlyandico

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 09:57 PM

hi Dave, yes they are for positioning. Am not sure if they are even absolute - even low-resolution absolute encoders are useful for homing.

#12 end

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 10:09 PM

And note that the EQ8 dual encoders are not at all comparable to those in the 10Micron, AP, ASA mounts.

The EQ8 dual encoders are solely for pointing, they are pretty low resolution.

Having used an encoder-equipped GoTo mount (my AP600 + a Littlefoot GoTo controller) I'd say that the ability to declutch, move the mount around by hand and not lose GoTo sync - is a gimmick. Sounds good in theory, but in practice the utility is rather limited.


Is this "known" information already? The only thing I had heard was that there would be encoders on the mount, not any specifications of any kind.

#13 orlyandico

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 11:57 PM

It's a "best guess" on my part, knowing how much high-precision encoders cost.

Quote from the EQ8 site: "Patented dual-encoder technology for perfect harmony between manual handling and automated Synscan driven operation, never losing the position"

Notice that they don't talk about the encoders giving unguided tracking. Seeing as high-precision encoders cost a lot of money, I don't see how Synta could put them in at this price point.

Also the tick count of the encoders on the Az-EQ6 is known to be quite low (about 6000 ticks/rev) and it seems to be that since both are using Synscan, they would have similar or identical encoder specs.

http://www.astroshop...her-azeq6gt.asp



#14 gavinm

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:16 AM

Just found this...some details on the encoders

http://ca.skywatcher...tail.php?sid=66

I am planning to buy one as soon as they are available.. someones gotta be first..

#15 orlyandico

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:03 AM

no info there on the encoder spec.

what surprises me is that they managed to patent this "freedom find?"

gemini 1 has had that capability for years.

#16 jrcrilly

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:13 AM

no info there on the encoder spec.

what surprises me is that they managed to patent this "freedom find?"

gemini 1 has had that capability for years.


Hard to tell what they actually patented, if anything. Ad copy isn't very reliable about things like that. ServoCat has also used the technology for years.

They describe the encoders as being used for pointing so medium resolution (4K) is predictable. If they had spent hundreds (at least) more to provide tracking assistance they'd be sure to mention it! ;)

#17 orlyandico

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:23 AM

Yup. The AZ-EQ6GT mentioned 6356-tick encoders.

Really weird number of ticks (usually optical encoders are 1024, 2048, 4096, 5000, 8192, or 10000 tick).

This leads me to believe that Synta is using magnetic encoders, similar to those on the Intelliscopes. Which are dirt-cheap; Agilent HEDS optical encoders are around $75 each but magnetic encoders are under $20.

Like I said, not really comparable to 10Micron, AP, or ASA mounts where each encoder is anywhere from $500 to $3000 and up.

#18 gavinm

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 02:07 AM

no info there on the encoder spec.

what surprises me is that they managed to patent this "freedom find?"

gemini 1 has had that capability for years.


In the appendix down the bottom they give the encoder resolution as 17,624 counts/rev (although I cant find any info on such an encoder in Google)

#19 orlyandico

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 03:17 AM

Still way insufficient for tracking. So the original assertion that these are solely for pointing holds.

#20 gavinm

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 03:30 AM

I agree

#21 rmollise

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:15 AM

And note that the EQ8 dual encoders are not at all comparable to those in the 10Micron, AP, ASA mounts.

The EQ8 dual encoders are solely for pointing, they are pretty low resolution.

Having used an encoder-equipped GoTo mount (my AP600 + a Littlefoot GoTo controller) I'd say that the ability to declutch, move the mount around by hand and not lose GoTo sync - is a gimmick. Sounds good in theory, but in practice the utility is rather limited.


Some peoples' "gimmick" is other peoples' "gold," there, Skeezix. :lol:

One of the best things to come along in a looooong time. I'm just surprised more mounts/scopes don't have this.

#22 ahopp

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:53 AM

I have been using the LX850 for a few weeks now, it is living up to my expectations nicely. I think it is worth considering.

Tony

#23 dragonslayer1

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:55 AM

what is an encoder and what does it do that is so game changer??
Kasey

#24 EFT

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:54 AM

I used to have a CGE-PRO and really miss it. Very solid and dependable. Newer ones have very low native PE and both axis have spring loaded lapped worm gears. The mount features mature software and drivers. Also there are many accessories for it. As I've said many times the ONLY negative thing I ever had to say about the CGE-PRO was that it didn't have internal cable routing. However that isn't a big issue for many folks. Lots of creative ways to route cables so they don't snag. Some people take issue with how tall the mount is. As a tall person I never minded it at all. Much easier to view objects at the Zenith. One last thing is the motors and gears. I found them to be really quiet. I think the CGE-PRO with the forthcoming Starsense addon and using the All Star Polar Align routine will get you to an accurate polar alignment and pointing alignment and that is half the battle.

Whatever choice you make keep in mind "initial quality" vs. "5 year". Like an automobile review that gives a car high marks for initial quality you have to go back after a few years and re-review them to see how they hold up. We know how the CGE-PRO holds up, what about its competition?


Having actually had a lot of hands-on experience with both mounts (which few people have), I would say that this is an important post to consider.

#25 davidh1979

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:52 PM

i went to my friends last night he was saying your crazy
dont buy meade their junk iv never had a meade i have a
cgem he got his cge pro 2 months ago its the new version
he has now convinced me to get the cge pro last night
his cge pro was tracking at +/-6 arc seconds and with
ppec +/-2 arc seconds i cannot see the lx-850 beat that
for a long time if ever i know that is what the Paramount
MX gets and other hq mounts get.

he has no autoguider just using ppec but with a
autoguider im told you can now get +/-1.2 arc
seconds whao the cge pro is now a true HQ imaging
mount i was thinking before of going from a cgem to
a cgem-dx but then i taught thats just crazy the
cge pro,s motors are just light years better than
the cgem or cgem-dx and at 90-lbs my friend has 63-lbs
of gear on his mount edge-hd 14 and other gear and it
pushes it like nothing it looks so strong too.







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