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Cost of Televue Eyepieces

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#51 Illinois

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:11 AM


I don't think TeleVue eyepieces are $500 more expensive


Price of a 20MM 100 * ES: $299
Price of a 21MM Ethos: $895
Difference: $596

Price of a 30MM 82* ES: $250
Price of a 31MM Nagler T5: $695
Difference: $445


596+445=1041

1041/2= 520.50

#52 Sarkikos

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:31 AM

There are no Ethos in my eyepiece cases. Guess why. But there are a couple 100 degree ES.

Mike

#53 FirstSight

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:22 AM

My EP case full of Televue EPs isn't going anywhere, not in my lifetime. It was all money well-spent. The rest of you suit yourselves.

#54 MRNUTTY

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:00 AM

Chris, LOL! me too :-)

i bought and sold all the ES's. they're nice stuff, but for my time spent; the best.

#55 BillP

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:12 AM

I have to think there would be no ES 100 degree eyepieces had there not been Ethos eyepieces first. It does make me reluctant to purchase ES eyepieces.


I agree. I have numerous questions about the origin of ES eyepieces, and wonder if there is a motivation, other than profit, as to the reasons they are priced so low.


Probably in LARGE part due to different supply chains. btw, everyone is in the business for PROFIT...so in that respect all are of the same nature and no vendor is more altruistic than another that's for sure!

#56 coutleef

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:16 AM

My EP case full of Televue EPs isn't going anywhere, not in my lifetime. It was all money well-spent. The rest of you suit yourselves.


same here, except that they are not TV but pentaxes.

if i had not purchased those i would have considered a couple of Delos EPs in the lower FL.

#57 Sarkikos

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:18 AM

My EP case full of Televue EPs isn't going anywhere, not in my lifetime. It was all money well-spent. The rest of you suit yourselves.


Now, I didn't say that I don't have any TeleVue eyepieces. I just don't have any Ethos. However, I did buy nearly all of my TV EPs used, not new.

Mike

#58 MRNUTTY

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:31 AM

I bought a lot used as well. Mostly the 1.25's, but the big 2" pieces I bought new at last years end of year sale.

#59 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:02 AM

My EP case full of Televue EPs isn't going anywhere, not in my lifetime. It was all money well-spent. The rest of you suit yourselves.


:waytogo:

#60 Thomas Karpf

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:23 AM


I don't think TeleVue eyepieces are $500 more expensive


Price of a 20MM 100 * ES: $299
Price of a 21MM Ethos: $895
Difference: $596

Price of a 30MM 82* ES: $250
Price of a 31MM Nagler T5: $695
Difference: $445


Price of a 24MM 68* ES: $119
Price of a 24MM Panoptic: $330
Difference: $211

#61 csrlice12

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:53 AM

Availability of the 24mm Pan: Walk in with the money, walk out with the eyepiece.

Availability of the ES68* 24mm: May 30 will be my one-year ordering anniversary...

THAT's a BIG difference too.....

#62 Eddgie

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:57 AM

Yes, it looks like a knock-off design for sure. If TV were Apple, the patent lawsuits would be flying.




US Patent protection I think only lasts for 20 years.

The Ethos is most likely simply an extension of the original Nagler design which basically uses a Smyth lens as part of the design.

In order to get a new patent, the design usually has to incorporate some new, never before seen design element.


Likewise, the Panoptic design has been around a long time, and is most likely off patent.

Also, someone wishing to compete only has to make a slight "Improvement" somewhere in the design and can get a new patents based on the "Improved" version.

And no one should think it is "Ripping off" Televue.

Patent law allows the inventor to have an exclusive use of the design for a period of time so that their inventiveness is rewarded.

It is the expiration of that patent though that allows for competition , and when this happens, prices almost always fall as a result.

#63 hfjacinto

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:00 AM

Price of a 24MM 68* ES: $119
Price of a 24MM Panoptic: $330
Difference: $211


So if the 24MM 68* ES was available I could get 3 eyepieces for the price of one Panoptic?

#64 linux

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:02 AM

For some reason I assumed that TV was made in the US, but is actually manufactured in Japan and Taiwan. ES is a Chinese owned company based in Arkansas but manufactured in China. Perhaps the cost of living and business taxes in NY affect the prices somewhat compared to Arkansas, but probably not by a factor of 2 or 3.

#65 MikeBOKC

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:07 AM

How do you measure the cost of an eyepiece? For most of us a quality eyepiece is something that will last and be used for many years, in some cases decades. How many hours will it ride in a diagonal over those decades? Thousands probably for an avid and active astronomer. When you look at it that way (and I do) any substantial up front investment in any astronomy equipment is just that, an investment, not a cost or expense. I have about $5,000 in my eyepiece case, and I consider it money very well invested in what I hope will be many years of enjoyable eobserving for me and those who eventually inherit or purchase those eyepieces.

#66 spongebob@55

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:07 AM

Saw a $620 price on a 13mm Ethos at NEAF at the OPT booth. Almost pulled the trigger, but just couldn't get over the thought of what else I could buy for that....
I too would like to know when TVs are 'on sale'.
Bob

#67 Sarkikos

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:21 AM

Yep, 'on sale' is right.

Mike

#68 russell23

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:00 PM

I have no problem with TV prices and I agree that they have been a leading innovator in eyepiece design. And if you have the funds, you're loading up with outstanding eyepieces if you go with TV eyepieces and can support them for being an innovator in the eyepiece market.

But as I’ve said before, TV has chosen to focus on the premium wide-field market – not the “economy” wide-field market. Meade, Celestron, and now Explore Scientific have provided the low cost “economy” options for people that cannot afford the TV Naglers and Panoptics. The great thing for TV over the years is that they have provided the lines many people have aspired to someday own because their lines were generally considered superior in all respects to the “economy” lines with similar specifications.

But the game has changed. Explore Scientific now offers eyepiece lines that perform at such a high level that many people no longer feel that they need to “aspire” to reach up for the cost of TV lines. People feel confident that the ES eyepieces are performing at a level close enough to the TV that they are satisfied. People in some cases even like the ES lines more.

I don’t know to what extent TV’s bottom line is being “hurt” by the success of ES, but when you ignore a large segment of the market (economy priced wide-fields), you run the risk that a company that successfully markets to that segment will eventually reach up and tap into your premium segment as well.

I’m not blaming TV for anything here, but I also don’t subscribe to any notion that we should feel sorry for TV because ES is supposedly “stealing” sales from them. By creating the Ethos line, TV actually created the demand that allowed ES to generate such success because a 100 deg AFOV line with such “majesty factor” priced at $600+ each leaves a huge price gap that a competitor can fill – especially one with the business advantages ES is succeeding with. So I don’t feel any need to have my wallet take an unnecessary hit just so that I can support a company that doesn’t have an interest in marketing eyepieces in my primary price range.

Dave

#69 MRNUTTY

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:08 PM

Well as has been mentioned before low prices, and 'good enough' product built in China has been the bane of many companies. Not all though, if there are sufficient customers for high-end at least a single manufacture of high-end gear can survive, and I hope TV will.

FWIW I thought the ES/68 line was their best.

#70 csrlice12

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:35 PM

"So if the 24MM 68* ES was available..."

Therein lies the problem......

#71 Thomas Karpf

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:00 PM

"So if the 24MM 68* ES was available..."

Therein lies the problem......


They're great quality and a great price for the quality. Not surprising that there's a line...

One of Carl Zambuto's criteria for finding a good deal is 'look for a line of people willing to wait'.

#72 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:13 PM

Probably in LARGE part due to different supply chains. btw, everyone is in the business for PROFIT...so in that respect all are of the same nature and no vendor is more altruistic than another that's for sure!



I think its worth making a distinction between manufacturers who are amateur astronomers and got into the business because of their interest in amateur astronomy and those that are just in business as a way to make money.

I think both Uncle Al and Roland Christen could have used their talents elsewhere and made buckloads of money but I think for both of them, what they do is a labor of love.

I also think that without their creativity, willingness to stretch the limits, our choices as amateur astronomers would be much more limited.


Jon

#73 hfjacinto

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:25 PM

Well as has been mentioned before low prices, and 'good enough' product built in China has been the bane of many companies. Not all though, if there are sufficient customers for high-end at least a single manufacture of high-end gear can survive, and I hope TV will.

FWIW I thought the ES/68 line was their best.


Not to pick on this particular post, but there have been several critiquing the Mass Produced Good Enough eyepiece but when I look at the equipment list I see lots of Mass Produced Good Enough telescopes. Shouldn't the critique apply to telescopes also?

Televue makes an excellent product I don't think anyone is saying they don't, the critique is of the current high price and really pricing is up to Televue. What is happening is that at one time the difference was enough to justify the price, but for some of us that difference is either not evident or the price of that difference is higher than some of us will pay.

I for one own more televue eyepieces than any other brand, but after comparing the Ethos and ES 100° I went ES and have no issues with my decision. Considering I've switched eyepieces several times I didn't see the "cost" of an Ethos merited the value. Many of you feel differently, many feel the same.

#74 Sagitta

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:36 PM

As I see it, the Western World is getting poorer while Asian countries (especially China) are getting richer. So Televue have changed their bussiness model: As Americans & Europeans buy affordable "Made in China" EPs, Televue sell their "Made in USA" EPs to the new Asian middle class.

Welcome to the 21st century!

#75 MRNUTTY

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:50 PM

Not to pick on this particular post, but there have been several critiquing the Mass Produced Good Enough eyepiece but when I look at the equipment list I see lots of Mass Produced Good Enough telescopes. Shouldn't the critique apply to telescopes also?


Yes, of course. It applies to any product where "cheaper and good enough" drives customers away from higher priced goods of similar or better quality, feature, etc...






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