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Let's talk about anomalies

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#51 dickbill

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:25 PM

A possible Anomaly coming in the near future. Imagine it's 2025. 30-60 meters telescope are now working and they can study the atmosphere of exoplanets during transits in front of their mother star or by other means. They look for oxygen, ozone, methane, some green signature etc. A couple of erath-like planets located in the habitable zone are probed this way. A first one, then 2, 3, 4 explanets: no oxygen, no ozone, no green photosynthetic signature, just CO2 and Nitrogen. A fifth planet candidate has a bit of methane, but it's inconclusive. What do we do for this one, 'our' only hope so far?
A $1 billion inteferometer is build on the moon for this project, since astronauts are already there with nothing mnuch to do anyways. The fifth planet is analyzed with a nanoarcsec of resolution and...an ocean world, anoxic is discovered. Nothing conclusive and the case is abandonned.

Then the size sample reach 12 planets, all located in the habitable zone, but no evidence of any oxygen or any other signature of life is discovered.

Anomaly? I say yes in the current framework of Life apparition.
But then comes the 13th planet....

#52 dickbill

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:10 AM

This topic is one of the most interesting, imo.
However, I wish it wouln't be confined to astronomical issues. If we accept to speak truely, without using the forked tongue of the snake, in all fairness we must be aware that soon or later, we'll hit the wall of political correctness, i.e with private email etc.
I got 3 or 4 private mails already (i bet drl beats me on that easily) and i don't wish to irate the establishment further, but this is inevitable when you speak about anomalies (hmmm, isn't that one anomaly in itself?).

A nice one to start: given Consciousness infinite ability to understand almost everything from biological to cosmological, from the past to the future, we would expect its algorithmic complexity (the shortest program that can produce consciousness) to be accordingly infinite.
That is, IF we didn't know how 'consciousness' came to be, and had to guess, based on the above definition of 'infinite awareness', the shortest code to produce it, we would probably guess that an infinitively long, or complex, program would be necessary. Yet, we know that only 3 billions nucleotides in the human dna produce Consciousness. That's some sort of an anomaly isn't?
Even if we consider the ever increasing number of human beings on earth, 7 billions, that is still a finite number.

So, either the algorithm complexity to produce 'consciousness' is not infinite, or the limitation to fit it inside 3 billions nucleotides is beside the point. Some may say Time is relevant: with infinite time we'll know everything. Other, like in 'The Fifth Element' (Eric Besson's movie) believes that "Time is NOT relevant, only Life matters". Which perhaps means that the Operator for Life contains an infinite. Any opinion?

#53 CounterWeight

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 12:59 PM

No one commented on my satellite example which I feel for a space topic is a great start? It was encountered as a sort of accident (and I'm unsure how much a part security and classification and cold war paranoia may have affected it's release to general public) but I feel it should weigh heavily. This as say opposed to those found through rigor in the lab like those of low temperature - cryogenics.

#54 llanitedave

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:45 PM

This topic is one of the most interesting, imo.
However, I wish it wouln't be confined to astronomical issues. If we accept to speak truely, without using the forked tongue of the snake, in all fairness we must be aware that soon or later, we'll hit the wall of political correctness, i.e with private email etc.
I got 3 or 4 private mails already (i bet drl beats me on that easily) and i don't wish to irate the establishment further, but this is inevitable when you speak about anomalies (hmmm, isn't that one anomaly in itself?).

A nice one to start: given Consciousness infinite ability to understand almost everything from biological to cosmological, from the past to the future, we would expect its algorithmic complexity (the shortest program that can produce consciousness) to be accordingly infinite.
That is, IF we didn't know how 'consciousness' came to be, and had to guess, based on the above definition of 'infinite awareness', the shortest code to produce it, we would probably guess that an infinitively long, or complex, program would be necessary. Yet, we know that only 3 billions nucleotides in the human dna produce Consciousness. That's some sort of an anomaly isn't?
Even if we consider the ever increasing number of human beings on earth, 7 billions, that is still a finite number.

So, either the algorithm complexity to produce 'consciousness' is not infinite, or the limitation to fit it inside 3 billions nucleotides is beside the point. Some may say Time is relevant: with infinite time we'll know everything. Other, like in 'The Fifth Element' (Eric Besson's movie) believes that "Time is NOT relevant, only Life matters". Which perhaps means that the Operator for Life contains an infinite. Any opinion?


Not sure where you get the idea that consciousness involves or requires any capacity for infinity. All of us conscious beings are quite limited in our comprehension potential.

In fact, I'll bet if you really look at the grand scheme of things, you'll find it's finite all the way down.






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