Jump to content


Photo

IFOS ! Wow, nice :) XX14G gets a 10!

  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 CounterWeight

CounterWeight

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8208
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Palo alto, CA.

Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:42 AM

Took an initial break, and in again for second time after testing M13. First was after looking at Saturn - 5mm PXW held up nicely.

I was curious how M13 would look - apparently it's pretty nice seeing right now.

5mmPWX it's wall to wall sharp and crisp stars! :jump: Very, very happy me!

XX14G arrived this morning - a day early. Spent parts of the day putting it together. Took a nap and around 7 began rough collimation with he ep/cap.

took a bit to learn the 'touch' of the collimating adjustments on the secondary and primary but I nailed the ep cap. It's all I have until I get something better, like a laser. So I wasn't expecting a lot. truth is I have not collimated a Newt in maybe 15 years? Orion did a heck of lot right here IMO, as the collimation was not difficult. in the past i'd dealt with what i'd call 'squirly' (term borrowed from surfing) collimation that seems to trip out at the slightest. Not so here. in fact I did it then wandered it off and brought it back no problem.

Turned the fans on (I bought the fan kit) and put the sock over the trusses before doing an alignment. OK - I need to learn a bit about how to make adjustments on the synscan handset but I made it, finally. The slew mode went into something about a snails pace. Anyway - all was exactly as advertised.

Ep's used so far were the Meade uwa24 and 14, Pentax XW 10 and 5, and i'm uncertain of the others but I may have had some trouble getting the RO 6.7 Koenig to focus? So I popped in the 7XW - this thing seems to really like them - the Pentax. The Meade UWA's I am as always impressed with here as well. Look good all over and I don't see a pronounced coma anywhere.

But having the PXW5mm filled with stars and a slight chandelier glow in the central region is what my 160TEC could never serve up.

Very warm today. Been maybe a 15 degree(F) temp swing as the even has cooled down and with the fans there appears no penalty whatsoever. I have it sitting on the lawn on top of a 6x6' rug.

I've not done a star test tonight, as I want to have the collimation nailed with a laser first, but I think these optics are quite good and I'm impressed.

No mistake - this blows my TEC out of the water on these two objects. No armchair commando 'supposing' here - I own both and I just compared both. The TEC may be slightly sharper but the XX14g more than makes up for that in scale and resolution, and I have to say I'm very impressed at how crisp the 14"er is!
(this thing is LARGE and I'm happy I didn't go for the 16" (at the moment). I was expecting some cooldown acclimation issues as the temps swing, but it's a non issue with the fan kit.

I'm certain I will take lumps for saying the XX14G mopped the floor with my TEC160 f/8 (or that it's somehow an inferior APO, it isn't).
:tonofbricks:

What the hey, I see what I see and no reason to message that into anything to score points with folks I've never met.

Not sure what I am going to do next. Probably take the TEC off the pier and put the FSQ85 back on and do some imaging - and the wait for the teapot to clear the trees and see what the XX14G does in those realms.

(EDIT my apology for offending anyone with some of my wordings in the original of this - hope it's cleaned up Ok now)

#2 timps

timps

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 311
  • Joined: 24 Feb 2013

Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:31 AM

Thanks for the post. I am considering getting either the XX14G or the 16". How is the eyepiece height? I am 176cm tall (about 5'9").

#3 *skyguy*

*skyguy*

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2015
  • Joined: 31 Dec 2008
  • Loc: Western New York

Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:03 AM

Deep-Sky observing is all about aperture! As long as the optics are good ... it doesn't matter about the OTA design or how much you spend because ... Newts rule! Enjoy your new "monster" scope!

#4 Wcclower

Wcclower

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 160
  • Joined: 14 Apr 2011
  • Loc: Terrell, Texas

Posted 28 June 2013 - 09:44 AM

I noticed that you remarked that the slew speed was a snails pace. You know that with the closed loop electronis you can manually push the scope into the general direction of your target while the scope is slewing. The slewing takes right up to where you push the scope to. On another note, I sent my primary to Swayze Optics to have the mirror tested and refigured / recoated if neccesary. Mr Swayze said there was nothing he could do to improve upon it and that it was a remarkably good mirror! I love my XX14G!
Craig

#5 Mike B

Mike B

    Starstruck

  • *****
  • Posts: 10253
  • Joined: 06 Apr 2005
  • Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA

Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:10 AM

Schweeeeet! :jump: Glad to hear these things are rockin'! And getting such a testimonial from SS on your mirror... that is simply marvelous!

I'm certain I will take lumps for saying the XX14G mopped the floor with my TEC160 f/8

No lumps here. I've seen this myself. A large Apo like that is a sweet instrument... i observe with a guy who has an AP155- it punches waay above it's aperture AFAIC... but it's 6-inches of glass only takes you so far... tho granted, it takes you there quite well! Even so, i'm always happy to return to my Dob after an Aposnack. ;)

#6 RAKing

RAKing

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6310
  • Joined: 28 Dec 2007
  • Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula

Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:40 AM

No mistake - this blows my TEC out of the water on these two objects. No armchair commando 'supposing' here - I own both and I just compared both. The TEC may be slightly sharper but the XX14g more than makes up for that in scale and resolution, and I have to say I'm very impressed at how crisp the 14"er is!
(this thing is LARGE and I'm happy I didn't go for the 16" (at the moment). I was expecting some cooldown acclimation issues as the temps swing, but it's a non issue with the fan kit.

I'm certain I will take lumps for saying the XX14G mopped the floor with my TEC160 f/8 (or that it's somehow an inferior APO, it isn't).
:tonofbricks:

What the hey, I see what I see and no reason to message that into anything to score points with folks I've never met.

Not sure what I am going to do next. Probably take the TEC off the pier and put the FSQ85 back on and do some imaging - and the wait for the teapot to clear the trees and see what the XX14G does in those realms.

And get a few more clothes changes ready... ;) :help:


Jim,

It's great to see your post in the Reflectors Forum.

I still love my TEC 140, but there is no comparison with my XT12 Newtonian on certain objects. As mentioned above, DSO is all about aperture - the more the merrier! :waytogo:

Congrats on the new scope. Yes, mirrors can be used for more than shaving :lol:

Cheers,

Ron

#7 CounterWeight

CounterWeight

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8208
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Palo alto, CA.

Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:05 PM

Ok... finally awake again. Was it all a dream? Nope - it's still there, me too.

Mr. Swayze lives in my town, funny that Mr. Zambuto also lives up the way in the 'cloud belt'. Clouds... mirrors who would have thought?

Yes, that is what I ended up doing, manually moving the scope and then zeroing in. I had the clutches very loose and am very happy to say the tracking works extremely well, 'smooth sailing' - any fears of tracking issues evaporated quickly. As I'd mentioned several times in other threads it is the tracking that matters to me. And I'm still smiling about the eyepiece views. playing with eyepiece calc's I think (other my Lunar viewing with the Nagler 3-6 zoom) I was working with above a 1mm exit pupil with the 5mm and that working magnification was about 327x, true field of view ~0.213 deg. With the 7mm PXW it was near 1.5mm exit pupil and working mag near 233x, true field of view ~0.299 deg.

Referencing my 160APO, with those eyepieces I am at roughly 1/2 the size of exit pupil and about 0.05 deg more fov... and yes it's as good as I could ask for as well, just aperture limited.

The finder 'thing', not my cup of tea. New RACI finder and mounting base should arrive any day now. That and a laser to quickly nail the collimation.


I have to admit several times I looked for 'something must be wrong' through the eyepiece. hard to imaging nailing the collimation with just the ep cap method. Yes it's not perfect, but it's really close :) !

Though I've done some little comparison to my APO this thread is really more to say how pleased I am with this new product from Orion. I am no veteran Dob user, and have been gone from mirrors for too long. The 'requirement' was to get above 12" (largest SCt I've owned) with tracking, the goto is great but tracking was number One. Of course quality of optics next! or maybe reverse the two. Both either met or exceeded my hopes. M13 has over the years, along with the planets and Luna and I suppose M42 and a few others been my 'standard candle' I use when I get a new scope. This for many, many years and scopes. The views I had last night blew me away. I wanted to go wake people up ;) !

Over the night and early morning I never had any issues with the mirror not keeping up. I have A/C available outside and so was running fans/scope from a Pyramid regulated DC power supply.
Local NOAA data says about a 20(F) temp swing over the night.

As far as the shipping and assembly-
There was a good instruction manual included, all tools to assemble and rough collimate. Packing was good enough that though the driver tagged the larger boxes as 'damaged' (and they were NOT pretty) everything inside them was pristine. The assembly instructions, and collimation instructions (but for those totally foreign to that there are many decent web videos, Orions included) were clear and included photo's and drawings that were clearly labeled.

Here is a picture of the scope and I, I am 5'9" and you can see the ep at zenith just above my natural line of sight, this pic from a lower angle and so the difference is slightly eggaerated

Attached Files



#8 CounterWeight

CounterWeight

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8208
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Palo alto, CA.

Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:11 PM

Here is a pic of the lower tube with the fan kit installed, before I put the 6 supplied counterweights on. These fans are surprisingly quiet and I initially placed my hand below them to make certain they were working.

Attached Files



#9 Chaz659

Chaz659

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 247
  • Joined: 08 Dec 2012
  • Loc: Islip, NY

Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:33 PM

Thank you so much for this report. We are making due with our feisty little 127 SLT, while putting away the spare change and saving for either the 12G or 14G. I am very excited already at what these scopes offer.

What would you say as for the ease of transport and set-up of this scope? Any decent viewing requires a bit of travel for us. Which is the reason we chose the grab and go we have now, but we both have aperture fever and looking through a few 10 and 12 inch dobs has us both chomping at the bit for more. Thanks again.

#10 Wcclower

Wcclower

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 160
  • Joined: 14 Apr 2011
  • Loc: Terrell, Texas

Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:41 PM

Takes me about 15 minutes to set up.

#11 Mike B

Mike B

    Starstruck

  • *****
  • Posts: 10253
  • Joined: 06 Apr 2005
  • Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA

Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:46 PM

Of course quality of optics next! or maybe reverse the two.

Reverse- :ubetcha: you betcha!

M13 has over the years, along with the planets and Luna and I suppose M42 and a few others been my 'standard candle' I use when I get a new scope.

While yer in M13's 'hood, now with some serious optical oomph- just for grins, take a short stroll over to NGC 6207 sometime! :smirk:

With that amount of aperture, you'll soon be finding how social galaxies tend to be... where your chart depicts ONE, there may very well be more...

Happy hunting!
:waytogo:

#12 CounterWeight

CounterWeight

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8208
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Palo alto, CA.

Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:03 PM

Hi Charles,

As many folks over time have commented, setup and transport all relative?

For me, the way this breaks down with the captive hand bolts is very simple and easy. The lower tube could always be 'lightened' by removing the six 2.2 pound counterweights.

Somewhere the are pic's or a video of someone fitting I think the 16" version in a relatively small car for transport.

The largest piece that is an awkward or clumsy one person carry dimension is the baseplate (which includes a hefty motor) on my 14".

One important thing (at least for me it was very important) is that as far as I understand the 12" has a different more traditional mirror and mirror cell. I've been looking at the Royce conical since he announced it. I was curious about it but several folks that deal with that sort of thing professionally said they could NOT see any added minuses to the design and the temp acclimation in our amature world a possible huge plus. For me here it is important. Though I left my SCt's outside, there were times I just had to call it quits as the temps swang quickly. I didn't want to deal with this aspect at all in a new scope.

My next purchase for this will (maybe)be the padded cases, and I'll be asking someone to make something for the groundboard/baseboard. Either that or I'll have a different type of set made.

Not much if anything to easily loose or misplace as they wisely (IMO) made everything captive. Only two tools you'll need are the included screwdriver and hex key for any leveling seating adjustment of the upper attachment plates (those for the upper tube/cage)for the trusses.

Hope that helps - be glad to answer any other questions from my very limited experience with this.

#13 CounterWeight

CounterWeight

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8208
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Palo alto, CA.

Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:12 PM

Thanks Mike! - that sounds nice :) I'm uncertain about how it will do here in the city but I'm hoping I can get it to at least OSP with the TEC if I go.

#14 CounterWeight

CounterWeight

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8208
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Palo alto, CA.

Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:22 PM

Craig - thanks to you for your postings about this, I remember reading your post on the mirror and it was an important piece of information in my reading, along with the many others here over time.

#15 MikeBOKC

MikeBOKC

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4601
  • Joined: 10 May 2010
  • Loc: Oklahoma City, OK

Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:52 PM

On portability, my 14g is a one-man hoist EXCEPT for the assembled base, which is very definitely a two-man hoist. Luckily there are handles on each side. The lower OTA, even in the padded case with all nine counterweights attached, can be lifted solo. As I have an observing buddy riding along when we head to dark skies, I just leave the base assembled. It is also pretty easy to move out of the garage on a two-wheeled dolly. And yes, the views are outstanding. This may be one of the best aperture/convenience for the buck values in the hobby.

#16 CounterWeight

CounterWeight

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8208
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Palo alto, CA.

Posted 30 June 2013 - 02:44 AM

pretty warm around here, but not as warm as other places. Set up again near twilight and turned the fans on.

Did a quick 2 star align and sent it to Saturn. Long civil twilight these days. Started with a low power eyepiece. Had two 'interested folks' here that haven't looked much through telescopes. Walked up the magnification to finally the PXW5 and again I'm really impressed with the optics! Very nice!- ring shadow, Encke gap,(crisp!) slight banding. Backed it down to the 7mm PXW and it was just fantastic. Everyone agreed it was a sharp and crip view, then I put the TV 3-6 zoom on and we played with the limiting magnification and had a lot of fun.

The again to m13. Same scenario low to high. Again very impressed and I love the reactions of these two folks that were with me. Then two more friends showed up and was repeated for m13. They were just amazed.

The scope really pulls it off, and I'm happy to say it wasn't just initial excitement, it's really a great performer! :)

#17 MikeBOKC

MikeBOKC

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4601
  • Joined: 10 May 2010
  • Loc: Oklahoma City, OK

Posted 30 June 2013 - 08:15 AM

Had my 14g out to the club dark site last night, and several viewers noted that the view of M57 through it was the first time they had been able to detect a hint of color in the ring. M13 was also about as well defined to the core as we had ever seen it. Seeing was not great so deeper DSOs like galaxies did not pop as well as on previous outings, but this remains a really fine scope.

#18 CounterWeight

CounterWeight

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8208
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Palo alto, CA.

Posted 01 July 2013 - 03:55 AM

Mike,

Are you using your Denk's on you XX14g? I sold mine to help fund my TEC160 a few years ago.

#19 MikeBOKC

MikeBOKC

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4601
  • Joined: 10 May 2010
  • Loc: Oklahoma City, OK

Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:11 AM

I have not used them yet but will. Mostly I use the Denks on my SCT, especially for lunar and planetary viewing.

#20 Mike B

Mike B

    Starstruck

  • *****
  • Posts: 10253
  • Joined: 06 Apr 2005
  • Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA

Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:27 PM

Are you using your Denk's on you XX14g?



Hi Jim- different Mike here. :lol: And *yes*, i use my Denk II's on my 15" Dob, which should be pretty similar to your 14i.

The views can be breathtaking! Might create some rather minor "balance" issues? But many work-arounds exist, so should be NBD.

You'd need an OCA to reach focus, which both Denk & Earthwinn supply... creates about 1.4x minimum for magnification, but most find it easily worth the effect to have two-eyed viewing thru such a large aperture.

You may also wanna buy a couple of rolls of ducttape to go with... helps keep your socks in place, 'cuz the photonic pressure induced thru BOTH eyeballs can send 'em flyin', i kid you not! :roflmao:

#21 CounterWeight

CounterWeight

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8208
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Palo alto, CA.

Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:39 PM

Mike B,

:) Thank you for the post. I think this is going to the highly desirable part of future purchases for the Dob!

#22 AstroTatDad

AstroTatDad

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1034
  • Joined: 22 Apr 2013
  • Loc: Los Angeles - San Diego

Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:11 PM

man that's nice! I'm saving up for the xx14i. I like the all black, to bad the xxi's are silver. Dang wounded if I should save for the G, it looks nice.

#23 lbsgville

lbsgville

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 342
  • Joined: 15 Jun 2010
  • Loc: Florida

Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:11 PM

Save for the 14g if you can. It's a big scope but at this price and tracking well worth it. The g is more work to set up but worth the work. I like the process, it's part of the whole experience to me. For lazy or last minute nights I have my super modified 10" for grab and go.

Attached Files



#24 CounterWeight

CounterWeight

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8208
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Palo alto, CA.

Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:47 AM

Having Saturn in the ep with the 5mm Pentax XW crisp as can be, and it staying in there while I just enjoyed and mused on what I was seeing - that to me is 'what it's all about'. Also nice not to have to keep adjusting between different folks viewing it. I know it's not everyone's fun, but for me that made this worth the wait and the 'ante up'.






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics