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Help with M-13 .

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#1 lilfeet

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 12:28 PM


Just getting back into stargazing after a few years off. I have an 8 inch dob and a 5 inch mak. Trying to find M-13 with the dob and I'm having no luck. I've seen M-57 and a few double stars while waiting for M 13. I've viewed it many times from this location before. For some reason I can't seem to find it anymore, I think it's still there. I can't make out the fourth star any where,so I don't really know if I'm looking in the right place. Someone please tell where to look,besides up :confused: Thanks .

#2 David Knisely

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 12:46 PM

Just getting back into stargazing after a few years off. I have an 8 inch dob and a 5 inch mak. Trying to find M-13 with the dob and I'm having no luck. I've seen M-57 and a few double stars while waiting for M 13. I've viewed it many times from this location before. For some reason I can't seem to find it anymore, I think it's still there. I can't make out the fourth star any where,so I don't really know if I'm looking in the right place. Someone please tell where to look,besides up :confused: Thanks .


You need to find the "Keystone" of Hercules; a set of four widely-spaced stars that form a rhombus and the top of the body of the constellation. The western side stars of the Keystone is where you will need to look. About a third of the way from the top star of the west side of the keystone (Eta Herculis) to the bottom star (Zeta Herculis) is where M13 is located. In a finderscope, it is flanked by two 6th and 7th magnitude stars about half a degree apart, so that may help you in finding it. A good finder is helpful here, along with a good star atlas like the Sky and Telescope Pocket Sky Atlas. Good luck and clear skies to you.

#3 kfiscus

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 12:46 PM

Are you able to identify the four corner stars of Hercules' torso (aka the keystone)? As you look at his body, M-13 is below his shoulder/armpit on the right side- from our perspective. The cluster is about 1/3 of the way down, right on the line between his shoulder and hip.

By the way, welcome!

#4 tim57064

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 01:16 PM

If you can see M57 and are waiting for M13? M13 being in the constellation Hercules is to the west of the Ring. I apologize if you are already aware of this,not trying to be a smart aleck. Do you have a smart phone and have google sky maps installed? That has helped me tremendously to remember the constellations and where and what things are.

#5 Ed Wiley

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 01:52 PM

One of the best resources for finding Messier objects is Pennington's "The Year-Round Messier Marathon." He explains the "geometric method" using a Telrad. I found this method invaluable when I did the Messier list where digital setting circles and go-to are not allowed and continue to use the geometric method on other targets.

Ed

#6 tim57064

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 01:59 PM

Another quick question for you. What eyepiece were you using? A much lower power eyepiece with a wide field ,32mm or a 40mm 60 degree or more will help with locating since they give a wider field of view. Just my 2 cents.

#7 lilfeet

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 02:18 PM

Hey,thanks for the quick tips and info. I have about one hour before and after zenith going east to west. So I don't have a lot of time trying to find things.About the same to the south.Good veiw to the north but that's the worst light pollution. Like I said just getting back into it and just having a hard time getting everything orientated in my limited veiwing range.

I use 25mm 32mm and 40mm when searching,32 mm most of the time.

#8 FoggyEyes

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:09 PM

Buy "Turn Left At Orion". The most recent edition is written around finding stuff with a Dob.

#9 astroment

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:21 PM

Try to find Lyra Vega is the brightest star up then Hercules
I have been seeing it up high this year here's a map I found
doing a google search
http://earthsky.org/...-cluster-in-...
I see you have found M57 in Lyra
M13 it's a stretch looking for it on the keystone just to let you know you will be looking straight up for it


#10 lamplight

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:21 PM

Hi

cant really add anything new but yes, its to the right and higher overhead than m57. Once you find it once its quite easy to return too, I can find it with just a telrad in light pollution. My method is to look at the object on a star chart and then point my scope to the same place in the sky.. for a relatively bright object like this it is visibke in the finder. Another approach is start at one of the twotop stars of the keystone and sweep your scope towards the opposite while refering to findersxope views and charts as you go -the starhop :)

if you only have a short window id go for that one soon after dark as its near zenith early in the night now. Good luck and have fun!

#11 jerwin

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:16 AM

I draw a line between Arcturus and Vega, that helps me position Hercules the right way. M13 is in that part of the quadrilateral closer to Arcturus.

Clear Skies,
Jim

#12 uniondrone

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:30 AM


As others have said, learn to find the keystone of Hercules with your naked-eye first. Then learn where in the keystone to find M13. Then use your lowest power eyepiece when locating it. With an 8-inch dob and about 40x magnification, it should be almost point-and-find.

#13 ffraley

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:58 AM

I found it last week, it's the very first object I've ever looked for and found, other than planets and a couple of obvious doubles. I may not be much help, but I can describe what my problems were, and what worked. BTW, I used "Turn Left at Orion" and never took my smartphone out, it just confused things.

First, facing generally southeast, I found Arcturus and put it on my right. Then I put Vega on mt left to make a line I could work from. Then I stood still. Looked right to Corona Borealis, a big smile 1/3 of the way from Arcturus to Vega. Then left again to the Keystone shape half way between Corona Borealis and Vega. Then right to the star in the upper right corner.

Repeatedly making that line with back and forth was very helpful for me. Every time I turned or looked away I lost my orientation - since I was using a refractor and looking pretty high, I had to relax and look away often. Each time I redrew it was a little bit quicker and a bit more secure. I redrew it about a dozen times. I found it helped to stand up, keep my feet and body still, move mainly my eyes and head as little as possible to find things, then go to the finder while sort of keeping one eye on the spot in the sky.

Each time I started fresh by relocating that top right star in the finder and centering it. then moving about 1/3 of the way toward the bottom right star. And on about the dozenth try there was a fuzzy spot :-)

May sound crazy, disjointed, and simplistic; it worked for me.

My biggest problems were (are?)
-- getting the 6x30 finder on the right single star
-- getting and maintaining an orientation of what is where and which direction is which
-- realizing that if it's not there, it's not there. Start over from a known correct point.

#14 Kraus

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:58 AM


Sure are a lot of folks spend a lot of time finding objects then have to nudge the tube along to keep the object in view.

Go equatorial, go permanent.

#15 ffraley

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:15 PM

That's why I used the refractor. Well, that and it was easier to haul for vacation. But really made no difference in finding the object, though.

I have both and it really seems to be a wash. That's probably another thread, though.

#16 bob irvin

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:31 PM

Make sure you're looking at the (correct) 4 stars that make up the center of Hercules. I couldn't find M13 for the longest time because I was looking at the wrong 4 stars. Once you figure out which stars those are M13 is pretty straight forward to find given the advice already given.

bob

#17 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 02:21 AM

M13 forms a near right triangle with Pi and Eta Herculis at the "top" of the Keystone. There's a finder chart for M13 at http://freestarchart...13-m13-great... and a Telrad finder chart at http://www.atmob.org...kymaps/MAP9.PDF

Dave Mitsky

#18 Illinois

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:15 AM

Maybe you are in light pollution that is not easy to see Hercules. If you can see 4 stars and use 7 or 10 X 50 binocular and you can find a fuzzy blob is M13. Then you know where is it then use your telescope! Good luck!

#19 REC

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 08:58 AM

Yep, always found it looking just south of Eta. Easy to see in most finder scopes. Has the OP found it yet?

#20 Seldom

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:43 AM

+1 on David Knisely's recommendation of the Pocket Sky Atlas, but his reference to a rhombus could cause some confusion if you expect to find M13 in one. The keystone is a trapezoid.

Note that the PSA has a list of Messier objects on the last page.

#21 Fuzzyguy

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:33 AM

If you are using an equatorial mount, M13 is a very easy hop once you find Eta Her. Just turn you DEC control so your scope moves straight south about 2.5 degrees and it will pop into view and form a flat triangle between two nice 7th mag stars. If you have at least a .75 degree FoV, you can't miss it.

#22 bremms

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:51 AM

M13 is easily visible in a finder and a naked eye object from a dark site, Use some star charts and find it as other have described. Paper charts, not on a phone. If you have some binos get them out and scan the area. That way, you can become familiar with the star patterns around brighter objects.

#23 David Knisely

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:02 PM

+1 on David Knisely's recommendation of the Pocket Sky Atlas, but his reference to a rhombus could cause some confusion if you expect to find M13 in one. The keystone is a trapezoid.

Note that the PSA has a list of Messier objects on the last page.


Yea, it is a little more like a trapezoid than a rhombus.

#24 lilfeet

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:15 PM

Still haven't been able to find it. I can't make out the four stars. See a lot of three stars but not the fourth. That's what giving me fits. I've looked with 10x50 bino's till my necks stiff. I've took a few nights off and have been watching Saturn instead. I ain't gonna give up, I know it's up there just waiting for me to figure it out.
Again thanks for all the help and tips. I've really enjoyed being back out under the stars and feeding the bugs.:grin:

#25 JasonBurry

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:43 PM

I've found, on occasion, Hercules to be less than the most obvious constellation.

My suggestion would be that you try a sky chart software for your computer. I like Cartes du Ciel myself, it's free and VERY configurable. The most basic catalogues would be plenty for this purpose. There are a number of other free software that will also work.

The advantage of using a sky chart software is it shows you where things are "now".

M13 will quickly become a favourite object, one you'll slew to from memory in no time, once you get to know the neighbourhood.

Good hunting.

J






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