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Barry Kawa article now available-Cave-astrola.com

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#1 turk123

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 04:36 PM

Several Months ago I was able to negotiate with AM to publish Barry Kawa's " An Interview with Thomas Cave/ by Barry Kawa". I could not publish it at that time but was given permission by Herb to use the article after July 1st. It is now available for all to read on the Cave website.

#2 turk123

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:00 AM

Barry is writing a new article called "Young Cave". To be released soon. It will also go to AM first as Herb is an old friend of his. Barry told me what he makes for an article and believe me he is not doing it for the money! In the beginning of the first Cave article he describes wanting to write a book about the "telescope makers" but never did. He is slowly releasing articles written from the notes and recordings he made from back then. At least the history of those optical pioneers is finally getting out. Good reads also.

#3 Chuck Hards

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:23 AM

That's a great piece, Tom. Many thanks to you and Barry!

#4 Bonco

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:44 PM

Enjoyed the read. lots of interesting tidbits and surprising info. Found it interesting that he was friends with the Criterion owner. Also loved the comments about Richard Widmark and his reaction to his new 12.5 inch.

The article makes me yearn for my 10 inch Custom Delux. I bought it around 1972. I think he said 3 months delivery but it turned out to be around 6 months. I kept calling asking for updates and I think he thought I was as irritating as Kuiper. Had I just been quiet I'd probably received it sooner and maybe with a better overall finish as there were several cosmetic issues on the mount and pier. Also the mirror was undercorrected so I hired Richard Fagin to improve the figure. Wow, it was superb after that.

So happy the story has been told about this very iconic figure in the amatuer astronomy world. Thanks for putting it on your web site.
Bill

#5 amicus sidera

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:01 PM

That was a damn fine article! Many thanks for getting clearance to share it with us, Turk; it only adds to your already superb website.

Apart from his reminiscences about the movie stars who patronized his firm, and his opinion of Herring, the thing that stood out the most to me was Mr. Cave's comments regarding Meade's actions while he was laid up in the hospital... if an accurate account, that was about as low as it gets.

Fred

#6 turk123

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:10 PM

Thanks guys. If you haven't heard my previous info about Barry and his articles, I will fill you in. Barry and I have quite an email correspondence going on. He maybe visiting Ohio soon (Cleveland) and I hope to meet him and his wife in person. Should be fun to talk about the old "masters".

As I mentioned once before, Barry is sending me the "tapes" he used to record cave and make his notes. There's 3 hours of Tom talking about telescopes, the war, competitors and lots more. I will be digitizing all of them and will be releasing the audio in what I think will be an interesting way. It will be interesting to hear Cave's own voice and what he has to say about many things. Barry told me he just goes on and on and on!

#7 Rich (RLTYS)

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:33 AM

An excellent site. Thanks for the link. :bow: :jump: :bow: :jump: :bow: :jump:

Rich (RLTYS)

#8 Chuck Hards

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:52 AM

Tom, I can't wait to hear the recorded interviews with Cave.

I only ever spoke to him on the phone once, when I bought the mount for my home-made 8" f/7 Newt in the mid-seventies. A lot of local clubbers got to meet him and talk to him at ALCON in 2002, IIRC, but I had to miss it due to a work schedule from hell at the time, as well as spousal issues (with the now ex-wife...the new wife is enthusiastic about astronomy).

I originally ordered a mount from John Krewalk at Criterion, but after a 10-month wait, I cancelled the order. I spoke to Krewalk half a dozen times on the phone, yet he never suggested I go to Cave instead. Eventually I did it on my own. Cave was on-time with his product.

#9 PiSigma

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:15 PM

Cave was on-time with his product.


There's something you don't read everyday! :lol:

#10 Chuck Hards

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:24 PM

Cave was on-time with his product.


There's something you don't read everyday! :lol:


No mirror involved, it was just a mount. I'm thinking that had something to do with it.

Like flocking vs. spiders in another thread that will remain nameless.

#11 PiSigma

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 06:27 PM

And for those that have AM access the "Young Cave" article is now up:

http://www.astromart...?article_id=907

#12 Lew Chilton

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:34 AM

I obtained a typewritten copy Tom Cave's unfinished autobiography last year and was advised that under no circumstances was I to publish it or put it on the internet without the specific written permission of Tom Cave's eldest daughter.

I assume Kawa got that permission. I partially read his version of it on AM and was disappointed with his misspellings of important names. And he didn't seem to review his own writing for grammar and other compositional errors before posting it.

#13 Chuck Hards

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:11 AM

I have a breakfast cereal box formerly owned by Tom Cave. He used it to ship a book that I bought from him many years ago. On it is a return address label, a pre-printed, personalized, pretty standard commercial label that many people use.

After his name, Cave had hand-printed "FRAS".

I don't know why I've hung onto that cereal box for so many years. It's probably the oddest bit of Cave memorabilia in existence.



#14 Barry Kawa

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:12 AM

I obtained a typewritten copy Tom Cave's unfinished autobiography last year and was advised that under no circumstances was I to publish it or put it on the internet without the specific written permission of Tom Cave's eldest daughter.

I assume Kawa got that permission. I partially read his version of it on AM and was disappointed with his misspellings of important names. And he didn't seem to review his own writing for grammar and other compositional errors before posting it.




I interviewed Tom Cave at his home in 1997 in Long Beach with his daughter present. I have sent my cassette tapes to Tom Terleski who will post them on his site. Like Tom told me, you are a wannabe who thinks he "has access to the keys," so that is what is important in your life. I challenge you to show me where I have misspelled any names. I see that you have been banned from Astromart for the insulting and unprofessional e-mail you sent me. You have no monopoly on Tom Cave. He was very generous with his time with me and was very willing to be interviewed for a book I was working on at the time. I posted those two articles on Tom Cave on Astromart because I felt I owed it to him. I am glad many people enjoyed those articles, but then again, you are "the keeper of the keys." I am sorry if I upset you and made you feel less significant with what you have. But "man up."

#15 Barry Kawa

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:15 AM

I obtained a typewritten copy Tom Cave's unfinished autobiography last year and was advised that under no circumstances was I to publish it or put it on the internet without the specific written permission of Tom Cave's eldest daughter.

I assume Kawa got that permission. I partially read his version of it on AM and was disappointed with his misspellings of important names. And he didn't seem to review his own writing for grammar and other compositional errors before posting it.




I interviewed Tom Cave at his home in 1997 in Long Beach with his daughter present. I have sent my cassette tapes to Tom Terleski who will post them on his site. Like Tom told me, you are a wannabe who thinks he "has access to the keys," so that is what is important in your life. I challenge you to show me where I have misspelled any names. I see that you have been banned from Astromart for the insulting and unprofessional e-mail you sent me. You have no monopoly on Tom Cave. He was very generous with his time with me and was very willing to be interviewed for a book I was working on at the time. I posted those two articles on Tom Cave on Astromart because I felt I owed it to him. I am glad many people enjoyed those articles, but then again, you are "the keeper of the keys." I am sorry if I upset you and made you feel less significant with what you have. But "man up."


Tom Terleski said he has received the tapes of an afternoon of interviews I did with Tom Cave at his home in Long Beach in 1997. I look forward to him posting them soon on his website. I believe they belong to the astronomical community, and I am happy that everyone can hear his voice and the great comments he gave me. I did about 20 interviews of telescope manufacturers in 1997-1998, and Tom Cave was by far the best. I was about ready to dispose of those cassette tapes, figuring they had no value, but I am glad I did keep them, and they were still playable. Next up will be interviews I did with the Questar President Douglas Knight in New Hope, Penn., and with Maurice Sweiss at Scope City. But I am sure I will be blasted again for plagiarizing those as well. You know, I was working on a book on the history of commercial telescopes in America at the time in 1997-98. My co-author on the book lost interest, because he wanted to research the ads in Sky and Telescope, and he didn't see the value in actually tracking down the telescope manufacturers and talking to them. No one had done that. I guess I shouldn't have interviewed Tom Cave and should have just waited for his unpublished autobiography to be released. But what I wrote was straight off those tapes. I have no autobiography he ever gave me. You will soon be able to hear excerpts from those interviews on Cave-astroloa com.

#16 turk123

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:18 AM

I am going to chime in here just once. Tom Cave was known for his story telling ability. Many of the stories in the autobiography are probably the same stories that are on the tapes. I have the tapes in my possession. All of the stories Barry used are on the tapes. I think an apology is in order.

We do not own history. I have tried my best to go out of my way in getting permissions for articles used on my website. Barry's articles are all original and the Caves ones are proven originals. I can see how their could be a misunderstanding from someone who knew Cave and is holding a very historical document that has stories in it about Cave's life. Cave just told the stores to all that would listen. When I publish the audio, you will see that Cave goes on and on and on. He liked to talk.

So Lew and Barry, just chill a bit. It looks like a misunderstanding. And Lew, you need to apologies to Barry. He did not do anything wrong.

#17 tim53

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:38 AM

What's so special about 1997? Lew has been involved with and has knowledge of amateur astronomy and telescope manufacturing history in Southern California that goes back more than 50 years.

Tim

#18 A6Q6

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:28 PM

Thanks Turk, what a great article from Barry Kawa. My wife will find the movie star and telescope parts interesting. Do you think she will now let me keep an 8inch reflector in the living room? I don't have a pool with a dressing-room.

#19 Datapanic

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:28 PM

It wouldn't be the first time that two people were working on the same thing without knowing it.

#20 Chuck Hards

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:38 PM

In retrospect I did talk to Cave more than once, because I called him when I bought his book. He was long retired by the second call, but wasn't very talkative, IIRC.

Funny how the memory can be jogged. Things not thought about in years come back.

#21 turk123

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:20 PM

OK, enough of the drama. Everything is Ok now. I spoke with Lew about the tapes and the article. Lew has not posted here so I figure I owe some explanation. Lew and I talked today and he realizes that there is a misunderstanding he had about the tapes. Maybe I should start from the beginning.

It seems as if there is a manuscript that Cave left his daughter Davina that is sort of an autobiography. It was never finished. A few months before, Barry Kawa did an interview with Cave at his home. Davina was there. It lasted 5 hours and was recorded. Lew and I are guessing that several months after the interview, and maybe even inspired by the interview, Cave sat down to write his Biography. He probably had help on it by his daughter.

The autobiography was given to a friend Tom who is a writer, by Davina after Tom's Cave's death. I believe the writer was going to do a book one day, but that day never happened. Lew was given a copy of the manuscript to use as research for an upcoming talk he was going to do. It never happened due to his health. Lew was told not to release the manuscript as Davina and himself still might use it for a book project.

Along comes Barry Kawa with his 5 hours of tapes and what we discovered now is that the tapes contain all of the same stories in the manuscript! Almost letter for letter. It was Tom Cave telling his stories as he did at many star parties, talks and events he was at. I'm guessing he had those stories so well practiced that they became repeatable word for word. That is what Lew heard when Barry Kawa wrote those stories. The tapes matched the manuscript just as it matched the many times Tom Cave told those stories to all that would listen. Lew now agrees he jumped too quickly is chastising Barry for writing the articles. Lew was only protecting his friend and Davina with what he thought was the story they wanted to someday to get out.

As it turns out, almost all the stories in the manuscript are on the tapes. Tom Cave spinning the tales of his life just as he did when he wrote those stories down. I have all the tapes now and have just started listening to them. Lew and I compared them and they are almost word for word. Surprisingly there is little said about telescopes on the tape or manuscript. I'm guessing that when Tom was away from the shop, the last thing he wanted to talk about was his telescopes. He talks of the war, of women, of Hollywood and his father. Actors and actresses and his involvement with astronomy clubs. There are no secret clues on how he made the mirrors or how he ran his business. In the tapes, Barry asks very little questions as Tom goes on and on and on about all kinds of subjects. He was reliving his life and he later wrote all those stories down in the manuscript. They are the same.

I left Lew with Barry's email and he said he would send Barry a few words. I think this will come to a good end.

Lew Chilton is a very interesting man. We spoke for over 3 hours. I love his love of astronomy and the telescopes he's owned. He is truly a wonderful representative of what this forum is all about, the love of classic telescopes. We have made plans to talk again. I hope he will write some things for the Cave website.

Barry Kawa is also a unique man. He worked at the Cleveland Plain Dealer as a reporter years ago and he had an idea to interview all the great telescope makers. He accomplished that goal but never wrote the book he wanted to write. He is now using the tapes he recorded 15 years ago to write the articles over at AM. He was helping Herb get his "members only" tab started by contributing articles for the section. He was to keep them around 3000 words and needed to get them out quickly. Barry is now in Tokyo, Japan and works very hard and long hours at a writing job. The articles for Herb were written at home after work, late at night. He got the content out and it may not be in the best grammar fit and finish, they are truly a window on the world of the early telescope men. Barry being Japanese got a bit defensive only because his honor was hurt by words said. Barry has become a friend and I could feel his hurt. I think things will be fine soon as he and Lew talk.

I now have possession of the tapes. I am having Lew find out what his friend and Davina want to do with the manuscript. I will refrain from releasing anything until I hear from them. My intensions are only to release snippets of Tom's wit and wisdom on the website. You will not get to hear all 5 hours nor would you want to! I just want people to get a feeling from Cave's voice, what he was like and how he handled himself. I can do that in 6 or 7 snippets that I pick out of the recording.

I believe all is well.

#22 rdandrea

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:46 PM

Turk, I don't know that you've done anything unethical so there's no real explanation needed. But thanks for trying to be extra squeaky clean anyway. And thanks for your work on the Cave site. You're providing a valuable service.

#23 Steve_M_M

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:57 PM

Tom,

Thank you for filling in the holes.

Steve

#24 Barry Kawa

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:39 PM

Thanks, Tom. I will say that I have written about 40,000 words in my articles, and I don't see the bad grammar or misspelled names that people say. On the contrary, I have gotten mostly positive comments from readers who say they like my writing style. I will say when I was the Statehouse Bureau Chief for the Plain Dealer in Columbus, and later, the Fort Worth Bureau Chief for the Dallas Morning News, that I was prohibited from writing stories. The reason? They said no writers can self-edit their own work, or should they try! In my day job here in Tokyo, I copy edit stories all day and night, and I can catch any misuse of grammar or misspellings or inaccuracies, or what have you. But my own writing? I will read right over it! If anyone points out anything in my articles that should be corrected, please send me an e-mail. The nice thing about digital articles is that anything is easily and quickly corrected. If I read over those articles I have written for Astromart, I will be bombarding them with e-mails on little fixes here and there. But I don't want to be bothersome. Thanks again, Tom, for acting as a "peacemaker."

#25 Datapanic

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:04 PM

I work with a team of technical writers and have written a Best Practice Guide myself - it's definitely part of the process to ask other members of the team to help proof read a document. Even after that, the documents are sent to final proof and legal before they ever hit the 'net. Even then it seems that something will always get missed after the final edit.

Layer all that and factor in other forms of English - mostly British and Indian English and it really becomes a challenge.

One thing that still gets me (and I'll never stop because that's the way I learned it) is the single space after a period instead of two spaces. I know it's in the Brown Book, but I gotta be me!

Edit - hmmm, looks like CN's Forums automatically change two spaces after a period to one!






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