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C14 goto mount minimum Size ?

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#1 tim57064

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:32 PM

Hello to all. I was wondering,what would be the minimum size mount a person would need for a C14 if a person wanted to do imaging with that particular scope? Also if it was for just visual? Thanks, Tim

#2 jrcrilly

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:39 PM

My C14 was fine visually on my CGE and CI-700. I'm sure that the very similar G-11 would do as well. For imaging, especially at that focal length, I declined to try any of the above. My NJP did a great job, though. Anything in that class (AP900, PMX) would be good also.

#3 tim57064

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:49 PM

Thanks John, What can I expect to pay for any of those mounts? I suppose atleast 3 to 4 thousand if not more? Would be nice to find something on the lower end.

#4 orlyandico

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:40 PM

You can occasionally get a used NJP for $4000. But I only saw two last year.

A CGE Pro might work ($5000 new, have hardly seen any used).

John's other options (AP900, PMX) are in the $7000 - $9000 range.

Or you can go with the Meade LX850 ($6000) which John is currently using...

The long and the short of it, imaging with a C14 is a daunting proposition - the weight and the long, long focal length really absolutely requires a top-tier mount. There's really no way to go cheap on this one.

#5 jrcrilly

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:48 PM

You should be able to find a used CGE for $2000 or a little less. Celestron says the CGEM-DX will carry a C14 but I haven't seen that in operation so I can't comment. A CI-700 with Gemini would probably go for less but that wasn't a common setup. A good used LXD750 might go for $1500 or so and would do the trick visually if you can find one. An older G-11/Gemini might not be much over $2000.

#6 rmollise

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:55 PM

You can occasionally get a used NJP for $4000. But I only saw two last year.

A CGE Pro might work ($5000 new, have hardly seen any used).


There's no "might" to a C14 working on a CGE Pro, but it is a large mount.

Minimum? Losmandy G11 and Celestron CGE (not Pro).

#7 orlyandico

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:04 PM

That is for visual, I suppose... (G11 or CGE) I find it difficult to imagine a G11 being able to carry a C14 for imaging at native FL when my beloved mount is not rated to carry a C14...

One alternative is to reduce the C14, e.g. with the 0.5X Optec reducer, or a Hyperstar. That would significantly reduce the mount requirements, maybe even a CGEM DX would work at the reduced focal length.

#8 rmollise

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:58 PM

Yes, for visual. HOWEVER...at least one person I know of has produced amazing images with C14 + G11...so never say never. Yes, very few people would want to image at f/11 with a C14 no matter what the mount they were using. ;)

#9 Raginar

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:45 PM

An Mi-250 would fit the bill. You'll find them used from time to time on AM.

#10 mega256

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:55 PM

A new G11/G2 with the new beefy motors that are at least 2x
as strong ($225 ea)..about can be about $3200 .I understand that the new mounts being sold now have them standad.But I would strongly suggest you get the Robin Casady 14" saddle ($185)while you still can.. (He's closing down) and you keep at about F7 or less...you should be fine..Slow the slew rates some..also..Keep the C14 light and no heavy guide scope also...You will need about 48 lbs in counter weights..I use a pier but the big tripod is fine.
A used one will work(with older motors) but you should think about at least replacing the ra one with newer type and keep the other for a spare..This is the min I would use with a lightly loaded C14..Its a great setup..

The 14" Robin Casady saddle made a big difference.btw
Keep wind away ,the dew shield on a c14 is BIG....

Today...I would take a long look at the new EQ8...

#11 alpal

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:38 PM

Would the new EQ8 do it?

#12 mega256

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:10 AM

Its brand new,but from what I have seen on the web...Oh Ya..
It will be a interesting one to watch....and give the big guys a run for the money....with Skywatcher/Celestron support,I would have no problems with it at all being new...

It looks to have a payload of over 100 lbs.....(see other EQ8 posts) :jump:

#13 rmollise

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 08:17 AM

Would the new EQ8 do it?


Yes. Easily. It is in the same payload class as the CGE Pro.

#14 neilson

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:37 AM

Celestron actually sells a CGEM DX with a C14. I wouldn't try anything smaller. The CGE use to be Celestrons top choice for the C14 before they came out with the CGE Pro. If you use a G11 balance is going to be an issue.

neilson

#15 EFT

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:11 PM

The cheapest way that you could go for imaging would probably be to get a Hyperstar and one of the mid-range mounts starting with the CGE at a minimum. Most people I know find the G11 to be maxed with a C11. The C14 simply reduced will probably still require you to go with something in the CGE Pro size and weight range. There are a variety of mounts in this range, but most of them would have to be found used in order to be in the $5000 and below price range. Native focal length will generally require something in upper $7000 plus range with a significant capacity. Motor strength has very little to do with it since a well balanced system can be moved by a very small motor. It's the mounts' overall capacity to handle that much weight and do it with very little error that is important. Any mount that you max out with the C14 will likely struggle so you still need to look to be over-mounted or very high precision and both those things cost more.

#16 core

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 03:21 PM

There's the occasional mention that the Mach1 would be ok for visual with the C14 - anyone care to comment, or better yet have actual experience/seen/used one? CGE's fine for visual, but a anything to reduce transportation weight would be nice.

#17 WadeH237

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 03:49 PM

Roland at AP told me that a C14 on a Mach1 would be fine for visual. I am hoping to buy one for just this purpose in the next year or two (have to recover from buying the AP1600).

But you don't have to take my word for it. Just give AP a call.

-Wade

#18 tim57064

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:27 PM

I want to thank you all for your suggestions. There is a lot to think about and the one main thing to do yet,Talk to the boss for a go ahead. Since she retired and I just got my Meade 10" and the 6" refractor within the past couple of months, I am not going to hold my breath.I have a shot at the C14 and just found out it is on a Compustar mount also. Yet I have been reading up on these,ie:Uncle Rods used cat buyers guide, and not sure if that is the way I want to go or not. Yet the person selling it has done imaging with it and has turned out some pretty nice shots. Lot to think about

#19 orlyandico

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 08:29 PM

I think the Losmandy Titan could handle the C14 easily, albeit at a "Titanic" weight. It's not too expensive either, even new (compared to the AP or Bisque offerings, that is).

#20 orlyandico

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:17 PM

There is an EM400 for $4K Buy-It-Now on ebay (item # 321155341218).

That's a steal. The last one I saw (sold by Anthony of ADM) was $7K range, but with a tripod.

If I didn't already have a Mach1, I'd be on this like a flea on a poodle. Nevermind the extreme weight. :tonofbricks:

#21 Mkofski

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:36 PM

There is an EM400 for $4K Buy-It-Now on ebay (item # 321155341218).

That's a steal. The last one I saw (sold by Anthony of ADM) was $7K range, but with a tripod.

If I didn't already have a Mach1, I'd be on this like a flea on a poodle. Nevermind the extreme weight. :tonofbricks:


The seller will even consider an offer for less.

#22 orlyandico

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:05 AM

Mike... and that's what gets me worried.

They don't go that cheap. An EM-400 is AP900 class, payload wise (or a bit less - but definitely over Mach1). Even at the BIN price it is a steal.

#23 mega256

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 06:52 AM

All G11 Gg1 and G2 owners have had motor stalls..(for years)
And as the load gets bigger more often. Its truly hard
to get a big scope like a C14 in perfect balance..But we get close. The new HD motors eliminate this problem.
And they start and stop faster. And are now standard on new units. And the newest software for G2 now has an electronic balance feature to help with new G11s/G2( there is a firmware update in the G2 motor chip set to get the balance feature.(not yet as a upgrade)But the new HD motors work in the older units. And run very cool. I think this helps to get the best performance out of the G11.I also think Losmandy has made this a new standard for a good reason.






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