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New CM2 Carbonaceous Meteorite - Jbilet Winselwan

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#1 Glassthrower

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:06 AM

A new carbonaceous CM2 meteorite was approved by Met Soc today -

Name - Jbilet Winselwan
Find coordinates - 26°40.044’N, 11°40.637’W
Find location - Morocco/Western Sahara
Found: 24 May 2013
Classification: Carbonaceous chondrite (CM2)

History: (H. Chennaoui Aoudjehane, M. Aoudjehane, A. Laroussi, A. Bouferra) In early June 2013, A. Bouferra, a meteorite hunter from Smara, reported a new carbonaceous chondrite that had been found close to Smara. Due to its proximity to Smara (7 km), many meteorite hunters visited the area in the summer of 2013.

Physical characteristics: Total mass is estimated about 6 kg, with small and complete pieces between 3 and 10 g, a few medium-sized pieces 10 to 200 g and rare big pieces >200 g. The largest sample is ~900 g. Fresh looking fusion is crust present on many fragments. Some fragments are wind ablated. Some cracks contain secondary, crystalline alteration products. Interior of stones is black and peppered with chondrules.

Petrography: (R. Hewins, MNHNP, L Garvie, ASU). The meteorite contains chondrules and fragments of Types I and II. These include BO-PO, formerly metal-rich, and olivine-pyroxene Type I chondrules. Type II chondrules with forsterite relict grains are present. There are regions packed with chondrule material and coarse PCP, and zones with scattered chondrule material in fine-grained matrix. Chondrule sizes range up to 1.2 mm, though most are around 200 μm. A few CAIs are 800 μm. Powder x-ray diffraction shows a strong 0.7 nm peak for serpentines, a broad but weaker peak around 1.3 nm corresponding to smectites, and a weak broad peak consistent with tochilinite.

Geochemistry: (R. Hewins, MNHNP) Olivine is Fa0.98±0.44 and Fa25-40. Pyroxene is Fs2.6±1.5 and Fs40-61. Rare kamacite with 5.8 wt% Ni is present. (P. Cartigny, IPGP) The oxygen isotopic compositions of two pieces were determined as δ18O 3.811±0.09 and 5.851±0.016, δ17O -2.446±0.040 and -0.601±0.026, respectively. Δ17O values are -4.441 and -3.663, mean -4.052.

Classification: The oxygen isotope compositions, petrography and mineral compositions are all consistent with CM2

Specimens: 17.8 g MNHNP, 17.4 g FSAC provided by L. Labenne, 20 g UNM provided by G. Fujihara, 122 g ASU provided by Farmer. Other collection masses include: Farmer 2.6 kg, Labenne 1.6 kg, T. Jakobowski 512 g, G. Fujihara 358 g, M. Ouzillou 173 g.


Met Bulletin Link - http://www.lpi.usra.....php?code=57788


Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG

#2 mark8888

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 11:10 AM

Reading about meteorites during 5 long hours of meetings today (ahem), I got interested in Murchison and investigated acquiring a sample.  And I discovered that for a decent sized piece, it's expensive!  Odd, I thought (and still think), as the TKW is over 100kg.  That's a whole lot of meteorite out there for such a high price.  (Is it mostly in a museum or...?)

 

So I investigated other CM2 meteorites, and came up with "Jbilet Winselwan".  It's significantly cheaper than Murchison.  Searching for information about it here, I came up with only 1 mention in the history of this forum - this lonely unanswered thread.  I hereby revive it.

 

Any insight into this space rock?  Why is it so much cheaper, even though it has a much much lower TKW?  I know it must have interacted with space water, thus it is a CM2.  But does it also contain amino acids, like Murchison?  

 

Anyway, I'd welcome a discussion and perhaps a comparison of either or both of these cool meteorites.  And if I have any facts wrong I'd welcome corrections. 

 

Apparently there are 2 more CM2s:  LEW 90500, and LON 94102.  Feel free to throw these into the mix as well.   :cool:   



#3 107

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 12:50 PM

Mark / there is 432 approved meteorites classified as CM2's in the Met Buliten ,

I hold the largest un cut fragment ( or main mass) of Northwest Africa 8618 total known weight of only 25.2 grams , 6 grams went for classification purposes & My frag is 10.04 grams , Im including 2 pictures / one of the whole stone & 1 with the cut face showing the matrix ,

also a petrographic view of Jbilet ,

Murchison was a observed fall / so was picked up very fresh & is still being studied around the World , it contained something like 91 or 92 Amino acids only something like 17 are found here on Earth / Im going only from memory so if someone wishes too correct Me feel free . Murchison has held its value & increased over the years & is a must have weather micro or nice slice for any collection , ( My opinion only ) 

Ray Watts / Canada

As usual My pictures are too large / will try to include them later !



#4 107

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 01:15 PM

Mark

heres the 3 pictures as promised 

Ray

Attached Files



#5 mark8888

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 04:22 AM

Nice photos, nice meteorites!  Instructive.  Thank you...

 

OK, so I have the idea that other CM2 meteorites, including Jbilet, do not necessarily contain such a high number of amino acids.  Murchison is apparently special in this regard.

 

However, this recent paper - http://www.pnas.org/...8/34/13995.full  seems to suggest that CM2 meteorites do in fact have more purines in particular than other meteorites?  The last 2 paragraphs of the "results and discussion" section explain why this is significant.

 

And this is of particular interest:

The three CM2 carbonaceous chondrites in this study (Murchison, LEW 90500, and LON 94102) contained significantly higher (approximately 4× to 12×) abundances of purine nucleobases as well as greater structurally (sic?) diversity.

 

Funny, I never imagined that I'd be reading and trying to decipher chemistry in my free time... 

 

I've seen numerous comments that Murchison may have been contaminated due to where it landed, and this could explain the amino acids.  This paper discusses the possibility of contamination of it, and the others.

 

Forget the chicken soup!  Might be a good idea to cook up some primordial soup, throw in some Murchison, and let it stew for a while? The results could be interesting.

 

 

Any Jbilet Winselwan experts/aficionados out there?  Murchison?  More insight into these meteorites and other similar ones/CM2s very welcome.. . . . . ..  :grin:


Edited by mark8888, 13 February 2015 - 05:32 AM.


#6 107

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 10:13 AM

Mark here is a small sample of class C meteorites 

                 Sorry for the Lousy photo 

 

from top left to right :

.290 Sutter's Mill  - C  fragment

NWA 5958 C3.0 ungrouped fragment 1.6 grams

NWA 8534 CM 1/2  .37 gram fragment

NWA 8534 CM 1/2  .29 gram fragment

Murchison CM2 slice 1.4 gram

Murchison CM2 fragment .32 gram

Murray CM2 slice .50 gram

NWA 7138 CM2 slice 1.45 grams

NWA 6725 CM2 slice  2.1 grams

NWA 6725 CM2 frag 2 gram ( soon to be made into petrographic slides )

NWA 6725 CM2 frag micro

NWA 6725 CM2 frag micro

NWA 8267 CM2 frag 1.51 grams ( Which I also hold the largest uncut fragment or Main mass )

NWA 8267 CM2 slice .45 gram

NWA 8060 CM2 slice  1.84 grams

Dhofar 735 CM2 slice  1 gram

Jbilet CM2 slice 1.92 grams

NWA 5797 CM2 slice .30 grams

 

Some total known weights on these is as low as 30 grams & others is as high as 100 kilos ,

Just thought I would share some of My passion

Ray

Attached Files



#7 mark8888

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 01:17 PM

Thanks for sharing this pic of part of your extraordinary collection!!

 

That looks like a nice fat piece of Murray.  Also, of course, that Murchison on the left.  Are you looking to populate a galaxy?  :grin:

 

I checked a little website called "google" and found that I'm not the only one looking for more info about Jbilet Winselwan, esp. concerning amino acids.  Apparently I'm in good company: http://www.meteorite...4/nov/0167.html



#8 107

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 02:57 PM

Mark

I have wondered if there was a list available for a number of years / which meteorites contain amino acids / kerogens & hydrocarbons ,  that is what has kept Me very interested in the C class meteorites , I even Emailed Ian Nicklin at the Royal Ontario Museum & asked if He might have a list , His answer was no , I donated a slide of Jbilet to the R.O.M. for study & am still waiting on the results , Im actually going for another behind closed door tour there in the next month for a day of meteorites , Im donating a CR2 slide & will be playing in there lab etc . so maybe by then I will have a answer ,

Since Murchison has Glycine / alanine / proline / valine / leucine / isoleucine / aspartic acid & glutamic acid ,

& Jbilet plots in the same class , does it have the same makeup or different ,

next month I will be at the University in Waterloo , Ontario Canada & plan to pose the same question's Too Dr. Phil Mclausten .

hopefully in the next month or so I can answer some of Your questions .

This question has came up on the I.M.C.A. list & I believe the Met list & no one has cared to give a detailed answer .

I have found out that some CR2 meteorites do plot similar to CM meteorites with Ammonia & hydrocarbons .

You have picked a very specialized field of meteorites in collecting & studying , Glad to see someone else showing a interest

in this amazing field ,  



#9 mark8888

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 02:05 PM

Hi,

 

- I too would be very interested in such a list.  Basically this is what I have been asking about!  So we have the same questions.

- Yep, I have the same question about Jbilet, how similar is it to Murchison?  Very glad you donated a sample for study.  Please post the results in this forum.

 

>You have picked a very specialized field of meteorites in collecting & studying , Glad to see someone else showing a interest
in this amazing field ,

 

It's definitely fascinating.  Most meteorites are the building blocks of asteroids/planets.  These meteorites may well be the building blocks of life itself.  This is a fundamental thing... doesn't get much more fundamental  :grin:



#10 107

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 02:34 PM

Mark

I also donated Jbilet slides to Arizona State University / Lunar Planetary society Arizona / University of Alberta Canada /

University of Waterloo ( Canada ) .

Only problem My Slide Maker who is very well known in the industry Steve Schoner at PetroSlides in Flagstaff Arizona tells Me He has to bake the material on a hot plate & this will actually remove the Hydrocarbons .

So My answers might be limited . I will be setting up a Web site in the near future for Ultra rare slide sales & possible trades with Universities / Museums . I mostly buy material only to turn it into slides , I keep some as shown in the photo only for reference , class C meteorites have been a passion for awhile now with Me & I try to only collect Quality / Rare & with as low of weathering as possible , if You ever are serious about any CM material either fragments / slices or slides , give Me a shout ,

I might just have something of interest ,

Ray Watts / Canada



#11 highfnum

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:07 PM

Attached File  jbeletaf.jpg   147.13KB   2 downloads

here is sample of J-W under 30X microscope

 


Edited by highfnum, 19 February 2015 - 07:10 PM.


#12 highfnum

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:08 PM

here is sample of J-W under 30X microscope

Attached File  jbelet2f.jpg   140.95KB   0 downloads


Edited by highfnum, 19 February 2015 - 07:09 PM.


#13 mark8888

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 10:55 PM

Very interesting and nice photos.  Thanks...

Is it just my imagination, or are there a few hundred alien amino acids visible on those puppies?!  :D



#14 highfnum

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 04:54 AM

Dust artifacts or dead pixels

I should do a dark frame 

Like deep sky imaging

No.matter how hard I try to keep clean

They will be there


Edited by highfnum, 20 February 2015 - 06:35 AM.


#15 mark8888

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 06:49 AM

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that I see dust or dead pixels.  The photos are very good.  I am just imagining what secrets this meteorite might hold.  It looks like a very "lively" meteorite to me.


Edited by mark8888, 20 February 2015 - 06:55 AM.


#16 highfnum

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 09:34 AM

oops



#17 peter scherff

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 09:59 AM

Hi,
Carbonaceous chondrites are amazing meteorites, CMs even more so. It never ceases to amaze me to smell a sample of Murchison. You don’t need an expensive detector to find the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in this meteorite. The fact that these meteorites are rich in sugars and amino acids makes me think that life may be common in our universe. It is hard to imagine any more exciting meteorites than CMs.
For you thin section aficionados here are a few CMs.
Thanks,
Peter

Attached Files


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#18 mark8888

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 10:17 AM

Fascinating pics, thanks!

 

OK, it's well established that Murchison has a lot of amino acids... and, uh, "polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons" in it.

 

- Is there really no debate that they came with the meteorite, rather than from contamination upon landing?

 

- "The fact that these meteorites are rich in sugars and amino acids makes me think that life may be common in our universe. It is hard to imagine any more exciting meteorites than CMs."

 

Is it well established that numerous other CM2 meteorites, in addition to Murchison, are particularly rich in sugars and amino acids?  It's not only Murchison, but several/ALL of them?

 

I know, or think I know, that they have interacted with space water in their host asteroid or meteoroid.  Thus the "2" in CM2.  So, is this what makes them especially "lively" compared to other carbonaceous chondrites?  If not... what makes CM2s so special, so well packed with sugars and amino acids?

 

 

I think life must be pretty common in the universe.


Edited by mark8888, 20 February 2015 - 10:19 AM.


#19 107

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 04:50 PM

Hi,
Carbonaceous chondrites are amazing meteorites, CMs even more so. It never ceases to amaze me to smell a sample of Murchison. You don’t need an expensive detector to find the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in this meteorite. The fact that these meteorites are rich in sugars and amino acids makes me think that life may be common in our universe. It is hard to imagine any more exciting meteorites than CMs.
For you thin section aficionados here are a few CMs.
Thanks,
Peter

Peter / Awesome collection of thins !  Drooling here in Canada . 

Ray Watts



#20 peter scherff

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 06:03 PM

Hi,
I wish I knew more about CM meteorites. I don’t recall any reading any paper that talked about not finding any amino acids in a CM meteorite. My assumption is that all CM meteorites contain amino acids. If anyone knows differently please let me know.
My go to sources for basic information on CM meteorites are as follows:
Wet, Carbonaceous Asteroids: Altering Minerals, Changing Amino Acids http://www.psrd.hawa...mino_acids.html
Could G-class asteroids be the parent bodies of the CM chondrites? http://onlinelibrary...8.tb01630.x/pdf
Amino Acids in Meteorites Provide a Clue to How Life Turned Left http://scitechdaily....fe-turned-left/
I don’t think the abundance organic compounds found in CM meteorites is the result of terrestrial contamination. However whenever I think of terrestrial contamination I think of Lost City. Here is a passage from a paper on the Lost City meteorite:
We were probably only a few hours too late in our recovery to meet the requirements of those biochemists with an interest in organic compounds in meteorites. Judging from the footprints around the meteorite and the stained snow immediately adjacent to it, we believe this object to have been seriously contaminated by a dog or some other canine.

Thanks,

Peter

P.S. Thanks Ray, I was at the right places at the right times.
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#21 mark8888

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 03:01 PM

Fantastic post, thank you, I'm going to go through all of these links!!




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