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Moon and Skyglow filter - really?

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#1 azure1961p

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:33 PM

Lately Ive been using my Baader Moon and Skyglow filter on the moon (afterall). I have to say it seems rather pointless. Don't get me wrong this neodymium is an EXCELLENT contrast engancing filter on a number of objects and ok, it brings a creamy summer moon to a more neutral correct grey - but the sky glow moon thing. Zero on that account.

Anyone else find this to be true? What IS the advantage with the moon here?

Pete

#2 Rick Woods

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 10:04 PM

I've actually never found a use for it. I bought one for use with Mars, but it turned out to be more or less useless.

#3 azure1961p

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 10:44 PM

Haven't tried it out on that one yet. Its a curious little filter though - its light curves seemingly have bracketed drop outs between colors - primarily yellow-green but elsewhere to that seems to isolate the colors it does pass and enhances them without the polluting effects of the colors blocked. Reds are more vibrant - blues too . Mars though - haven't tried that yet.

Ill tell you Rick, Naglers got some promising looking filters for Mars - two infact if memory serves. These may just be the ticket. Have you tried these?

Pete

#4 jg3

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 11:30 PM

I have one of those too. Totally mis-named, probably from their early experimental days with neodymium glass. I thought the idea was to block moonlight and skyglow when observing deep-space objects when the moon is up. Now we have better filters for light-pollution control.

I do find it helps me better see features of Mars and Jupiter, but not on the Moon itself. I'd still like to compare it to the planetary filters by TeleVue and Denkmeier.

#5 David Knisely

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:23 AM

Lately Ive been using my Baader Moon and Skyglow filter on the moon (afterall). I have to say it seems rather pointless. Don't get me wrong this neodymium is an EXCELLENT contrast engancing filter on a number of objects and ok, it brings a creamy summer moon to a more neutral correct grey - but the sky glow moon thing. Zero on that account.

Anyone else find this to be true? What IS the advantage with the moon here?

Pete


I have a very similar filter (the old Sirius Optics NPC filter). I use it mainly on my 80mm f/5 refractor and my 100mm f/6 refractor, as it tends to tone down the faint color fringing of both of the achromat doublets these scopes use. Other than that, I don't use it very much. Clear skies to you.

#6 cpsTN

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:31 AM

I have found it really useful and that is shows quite noticeable effects on Jupiter, but not noticeable on anything else.

#7 Rick Woods

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:22 PM

Ill tell you Rick, Naglers got some promising looking filters for Mars - two infact if memory serves. These may just be the ticket. Have you tried these?


I haven't, mostly because of the price. But I do have the old Sirius Optics Mars filter, and a #30 magenta filter. These are both great performers, and I haven't felt the urge to spring for the TV offerings (yet).

#8 Rick Woods

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:23 PM

I have found it really useful and that is shows quite noticeable effects on Jupiter, but not noticeable on anything else.


Hmmm. I'll try it on the Jupster next time I have him in view. Thanks for the tip.

#9 azure1961p

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 06:11 PM

Thanks for the comments guys. I do need to get a magenta filter finally - I know Vernonscope carries it.

I do love the NEO filter by the way - its name however is not really covering what this filter is about.

Pete

#10 Sarkikos

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 07:55 AM

Pete,

Lately Ive been using my Baader Moon and Skyglow filter on the moon (afterall). I have to say it seems rather pointless. Don't get me wrong this neodymium is an EXCELLENT contrast engancing filter on a number of objects and ok, it brings a creamy summer moon to a more neutral correct grey - but the sky glow moon thing. Zero on that account.

Anyone else find this to be true? What IS the advantage with the moon here?


There is no advantage with the Moon. There is not supposed to be any advantage with the Moon. The Baader M&SG is not meant to be used as a Moon filter. The original idea seems to be that glare from the Moon as well as skyglow can diminish contrast for planets. The point of the M&SG is to enhance contrast for planet observation.

Neodymium Moon & SkyGlow Filter pdf

IME, the Baader M&SF is the best general contrast enhancing filter for viewing Jupiter, Mars and Saturn. To my eyes, the improvement in contrast is obvious. Now, I'm not saying that the M&SF will allow discernment of planet surface detail not visible without the filter - very few if any filters will - but it does make the detail easier to see.

The Baader M&SG is not a Moon filter nor a deep sky filter. It is a planet filter.

Mike

#11 Sarkikos

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:07 AM

For Mars, the Magenta #30 improves contrast simultaneously for surface features and atmosphere. Other filters will do one or the other but not both. (For example, the two Mars filters from TeleVue.) IMO, Magenta is the best general filter for Mars. Also IMO, M&SG is a close runner up.

Some observers also like the Salmon #80 for Martian maria. I've tried the Salmon but didn't see much advantage to it, at least compared to the Magenta.

I actually like the effect of Magenta stacked with the Baader M&SG for Mars. The M&SG is a great filter for experimenting. Viewing Jupiter or Mars with various color filters stacked with the M&SG is a treat.

Mike

#12 Sarkikos

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:12 AM

I see in my notes collected from other observers that Magenta is supposed to be a good filter for enhancing white ovals on Jupiter. I've never tried this myself. I'll have to give it a go next time I observe Jupiter.

Mike

#13 BSJ

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:37 PM

I like using my M&SG stacked with a fringe killer on the Moon and Jupiter. Heck I even like using that combo when I view the sun with a Baader film white light filter.

Just more comfortable and I see more detail. Same on my Newts and SCT.

#14 azure1961p

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 07:30 PM

Thanks for the clarifying Mike. It actually does a nice job removing that summer haze yellow the moon can have and leaves a more natural lunar grey so its good to that extent. Again thanks for explaining.

Pete

#15 Eric63

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:16 PM

Is that combination not similar to the Baader Contrast Booster?

#16 azure1961p

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:28 PM

Same thing . I opted for seperate filters though as a fringe killer on my reflector isn't needed. The combo on a refractor - now that I've used them stacked - is the best way to go by far. For differing scope designs where they focus all light equally the fringe killer just isn't advantageous.

The NEO as Mike Mentions though is a hands down fav in my filter kit .


Peye

#17 azure1961p

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:29 PM

Same thing . I opted for seperate filters though as a fringe killer on my reflector isn't needed. The combo on a refractor - now that I've used them stacked - is the best way to go by far. For differing scope designs where they focus all light equally the fringe killer just isn't advantageous.

The NEO as Mike Mentions though is a hands down fav in my filter kit for planetary. Not that wrattens are antiquated, far from it but as a very effective gentle filter - its a clear success.


Pete

#18 Eric63

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:35 PM

I have both the M&SG filter and the contrast booster. I bought them when I had my 102mm F5 achro, but unfortunately nothing could help that scope on the planets :lol: I'm now curious to try them on my Mak and Newt on Jupiter.

Eric

#19 azure1961p

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:34 AM

F/5 is pretty fast for a 102mm achro - must've been great in deepsky though. My Ranger at f6.8 is about as fast as I'd want to go. The glass is actually as good as it can be and still be an achro in terms of CA so the MSG does a really fine job actually. Like you say though at f/5 - it had its work load and then some.

Pete




#20 LThomas

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:31 AM

My Issue is the moon is blinding in the telescope. I use an ES 18MM*82 EP and I just cant stand looking at the moon as its so bright.

Is there a filter that will reduce this brightness so that one is able to actually view the moon without being permanently blind?

I have the Zhumel "see it all" filter set but no filter seems to hardly do any good in reducing the blinding glare of the moon.

#21 Sarkikos

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:41 AM

I like using my M&SG stacked with a fringe killer on the Moon and Jupiter. Heck I even like using that combo when I view the sun with a Baader film white light filter.

Just more comfortable and I see more detail. Same on my Newts and SCT.


Stacking the M&SG with FK is supposed to give results close to the Baader SemiApo filter. I have all three filters. It is close. I've experimented with that combo, and with each filter separately, for viewing the bright planets. I still prefer the M&SG alone in most cases, and sometimes stacked with a good color filter.

Mike

#22 Sarkikos

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:48 AM

I have both the M&SG filter and the contrast booster. I bought them when I had my 102mm F5 achro, but unfortunately nothing could help that scope on the planets :lol: I'm now curious to try them on my Mak and Newt on Jupiter.

Eric


Sounds like my experience with an ST80, also an f/5 achro. Great for rich-field wide-field low-power views of DSO. Not so good for lunar and planets - even with a SemiApo filter, VR-1, Fringe Killer, what have you. Maybe OK for low-power views of the Moon, but I wouldn't bother taking a scope out for just lunar low-power.

But with a Mak or Newt, now you're talking. A good contrast filter will improve the view of the bright planets with those scopes.

Mike

#23 Eric63

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:54 AM

Well Mike, I think it's time to dust off those filters. :) Thanks to all for the advice.

Eric

#24 Sarkikos

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:59 AM

My Issue is the moon is blinding in the telescope. I use an ES 18MM*82 EP and I just cant stand looking at the moon as its so bright.

Is there a filter that will reduce this brightness so that one is able to actually view the moon without being permanently blind?

I have the Zhumel "see it all" filter set but no filter seems to hardly do any good in reducing the blinding glare of the moon.


You can use a neutral density filter to reduce the perceived glare when viewing the Moon through a telescope. But that glare is only "perceived." If you were to view the Moon through that same telescope at the same magnification during the day, I guarantee it would not seem too bright. The reason the Moon appears so bright at night is that your eyes are not prepared properly to view it.

What you can do is just bare with it and allow your eyes to become accustomed to the level of brightness that the Moon provides in your telescope.

Or you can increase magnification to reduce the exit pupil and the brightness of the image.

Or you can make sure that your eyes are correctly adapted before viewing the Moon. Do this by keeping ambient white light on near your observing area or by looking at the reflection from a piece of white paper as you shine a bright white-light flashlight on it. Even partial dark adaptation is not needed for viewing the Moon. Your eyes should be photopic adapted (like they are during the day).

Mike

#25 BSJ

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:46 AM

Yeah, I started with a 1.25" FK and M&SG. I tried them alone but liked them better stacked.

I didn't want to spend the money on one each in 2" so I got a 2" SimiApo. To me the stacked filters gave a more neutral coloring. The SimiApo gives things a bit more yellow than I would have liked. But I'll live with it becasue I want to stick with 2" stuff.






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