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Still Can't See the Veil

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#51 REC

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:38 AM

I have the same scope and will try it out next week after the moon is gone. I have a 2" NPB filter that I can use in a 2" EP and get 3* FOV, so will try that out.

Bob

#52 REC

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:41 AM

Thanks for the comments Jon. The only OIII filter I have is a SCT type and if I use a 40mm EP I can get 1.2* FOV in it, so will try that on the next good dark, transparent night.

Bob

#53 Philler

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:48 PM

I've seen the Veil Neb. in my 10" Reflector at about 44x and I was using a Lumicron Deep Sky LP filter from pretty good dark skies. Cygnus was pretty high in the sky about 70 degrees. I don't remember any distinct details other than a series of streaks with a soft white faint glow and it was fairly easy to see.
I am sure some of you are aware of this, but these LP eyepiece filters also enhances views of Jupiter's belts and Saturn.

#54 Gil V

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:12 PM

With a 3 degree FOV in my Tascoscan, I can see both portions of the Veil with a UHC filter. amazing sight. I've onlu tried that on really clear nights, I don't think I'd bother on marginal evenings.

#55 Astrodj

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 12:57 PM

Bob,

I live in a red zone bordering on white, on the best nights I can reach 5.3 ZLM. I haven't ever tried for the Veil from home before, but this thread made me want to see what I could do. I have seen it well from dark skies with my 5" RFT and UHC (I don't have an OIII). My 10" dob from the dark site showed good structure in the eastern arc and around 52 Cygni, and the central portion was visible as well.

Last night I tried it from home with the 10" dob. ZLM was about 5.1 at best, seeing was just average. I used a 32mm Plossl which provided about a 1.3 degree TOV and the Lumicon UHC. The brightest portion visible was the lower section of the eastern arc. The top section of the eastern arc was easily visible but not a bright as the bottom section. The middle section was faintly visible but sketchy. The western arc at 52 Cygni was only a barely hinted at ghost of nebulosity, if that. Pickering's Triangle between the two loops was undetectable.

Clear Skies!

#56 Kraus

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:46 PM


DJ,

What? No OIII? That's like a sandwich without Hellamn's.

But nebula can shine one night and disappear the next night. So how much does a filter really matter. If I had black skies like in North Korea, I wouldn't need any filters.

#57 blb

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 04:05 PM

...If I had black skies like in North Korea, I wouldn't need any filters.

That's true but how much more would you be able see with filters? Many things can be seem from dark sky sites that can't be seen with light pollution and filters still enhance the view. ;)

#58 David Knisely

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 05:25 PM

DJ,

What? No OIII? That's like a sandwich without Hellamn's.

But nebula can shine one night and disappear the next night. So how much does a filter really matter. If I had black skies like in North Korea, I wouldn't need any filters.


Actually, yes, you would still need a good filter. Even under the darkest skies on Earth, there is still residual skyglow from the airglow emission lines/bands (Oxygen, Sodium, and the Hydroxyl radical) as well as the faint glow from interplanetary dust in the solar system and the even fainter continuum glow from unresolved background stars/galaxies which are too faint to see directly. A filter is needed to get rid of that last little bit of glow and render the view with the maximum contrast possible. At the Nebraska Star Party (Zenith Limiting magnitude 7.5 to 8.0; SQM 21.8 to 22.0), most amateurs continued to use their filters on the Veil, as they provided notably more contrast than without the filters in-place. Clear skies to you.

#59 Astrodj

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 03:06 PM

DJ,

What? No OIII? That's like a sandwich without Hellamn's.


Ya, someday maybe. I love my old trusty Lumicon UHC from the early 90's, but an OIII would be a nice addition for some objects. :grin:

BTW- I also find my UHC to help from a grey zone.

#60 Kraus

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:31 PM


I just received my new 2 inch OIII and UHC filters. Lumicon seems to have improved their formula. My five year old 1.25 inch OIII and UHC filters are tired and just ain't performing. Good thing they thread into my 2" diagonal as I can use either filter with all three Naglers.

Next, a 2" hydrogen-Beta filter. Soon comes the Horse Head.

#61 Jon_Doh

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:01 AM

I don't think I'd move to North Korea just to get black skies ;)

I use an OIII filter and it really makes a difference. Some nights I can see nebulae just fine without it and others it really makes them pop. It's handy to have one in the bag for those times when it's needed.

#62 curiosidad

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:48 PM

Hello,
I can see the Veil Nebula with UHC filters pretty well, like North America nebula, but .. I look better with the OIII filters?
A greeting

#63 Kraus

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:25 AM


Oh my folks. My Georgia skies even let in the Milky Way. Not real bright but it was there.

And the Veil once again, took all my attention. An OIII in my 31mm NAgler, I started at the north end of the the finger, slew south, east then back up north to the top edge of the east loop.

And Pickering's Triangle showed itself.

I shall assign myself as Keeper of the Veil. You may direct your questions to me.

#64 TechPan6415

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:12 PM

Saw it last night easily with my little 5" F5 with a ES 24mm 68 degree and a Lumicon O-III filter, but I have insanely dark and often very transparent, high elevation skies.

So needless to say when I plugged my ES 25mm 100 degree EP in my 16" 4.5 scope with my 2" O-III filter....it looked like a freaking photograph, my wife and I both about flipped, the detail and nuance of it was breathtaking.

It's all about dark skies for me, it makes all the difference in the world.

#65 Kraus

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 05:31 PM


Picture perfect is everyone's desire. You're making many folks envious, except me. I'm seething. Good job!

I aim to be up at 3:00a.m. to spy the Horse Head nebula. Are you going to out do me...again?

#66 Philler

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 09:24 PM

Saw the Veil Neb. the other night at my club's blue site in 8 x 42 binos., just two faint streaks. But in my 10" scope at 47X plus neb. filter, Veil is impressive. :) But when I go over to the the NA and Pelican all I have ever been able to get is faint puffs. Never been able to make out the Gulf of Mexico in NA in either scope or binoculars. :bawling:

#67 Kraus

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:50 AM


Have you caught your breath yet Philler? The Veil does that to folks.

The North America nebula is quite the task. I zero in on NGC-6997, an open cluster as my starting point. I steer southwards to a little knot with three stars in a short line. According to pictures, it's the gulf.

Like many, I wish I had much, much, much better skies.

#68 Philler

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:31 PM

[quote name="Kraus"]
Have you caught your breath yet Philler? The Veil does that to folks.

The North America nebula is quite the task. I zero in on NGC-6997, an open cluster as my starting point. I steer southwards to a little knot with three stars in a short line. According to pictures, it's the gulf.

Like many, I wish I had much, much, much better skies. [/quote




The first time I saw the Veil Neb. almost 20 years ago was when my jaw almost dropped. I used my 10 in. at low power with a neb filter. I spent enough time enjoying it that it will always be fixed in my mind, but I probably should have at least drawn a picture of it.
I'll keep on working on the NA neb.

#69 jrbarnett

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:19 AM

One word.

"OIII"

LPRs and UHCs don't even come close on this target, IMO.

- Jim

#70 nicknacknock

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:32 AM

I guess I shouldn't complain. 4 spots all within a 50 minute drive with SQM readings between 21.2 - 21.5.

Made short work of the Veil, North American and Pelican, California and Heart and Soul Nebulae 10 nights ago.

OK, California and Heart and Soul were there but they were faint targets. But still, it was with a 80mm refractor...

I used O III and Hb filters, Nagler 31mm and my Stellarvue SV80ST.

Veil was easily visible without a filter. But detail just pops out once you add that O III in the mix.

#71 Sarkikos

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 08:23 AM

Hi, I live in a red zone. Last night I could just barely make out the constellation Corona which I use as a guide as to how faint I can see. The last star in the "C" is mag.5 and I could just barley see it. It is straight overhead and all of the Hercules keystone. I was looking ay M13 as well last night.

Perhaps I need for it to get a little higher in the sky to try again. I think I will try it again in my 9x63 Bino's and put the filter on the front of one of the lenses? Otherwise I'm going to use my 10" Dob tonight if it stays clear :)


Your best bet is to find a darker site. I live in a red zone. I travel 50 miles to a yellow zone to observe. It's the nearest site where I can see many, many more objects than I could ever see if I stayed home. I'd rather travel an hour to a yellow zone, than six hours to a gray zone!

The Veil is very easy with an OIII filter in a yellow zone, whether I'm using a 3", 6" or 10" telescope.

Mike

#72 Sarkikos

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 08:34 AM

I think my dark site might be between a yellow zone and green zone, because another observer with an SQM meter got readings of a little over 21.

Mike






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