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is there a none goto EQ mount for $1k or less

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#1 Joe Aguiar

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:51 PM

ok its my turn

I am looking for a semi large, bigger then a CG5 mount up to a EQ6 mount max without having goto, do anyone make these or are every mount now goto?
just in case there are a few that i didnt relise
joe

#2 rmollise

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:05 PM

New? No. AFAIK, the only non-go-to in this payload range is the GM-8 which is 1500 with a tripod.

#3 Eddgie

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:19 PM

If you are willing to consider used, then you have several good options.

The GM8 can often be found used for about $1000 to $1200.

The "Atlas" mount came in a non Go-to version and often sells used for less than $1000.

The Celestron Ci700 is a very nice heavy duty mount that often sells for as low as $900. If you want Digitial Setting Circles, get one with the encoder package (I have seen them listed for $1000... $1100 complete with DSC computer).

These are three of the best deals out there.

But remember this. You don't need to actually use the Go-To on a Go-to mount.

Go_to mounts often only weigh a bit more than Non Go-To mounts.

In most cases, you can do a fake alignment. These mounts don't really care. Once you have a fake alignment, the mount will track and you can still move the mount manually whenever you want.

And if the only thing you are doing is tracking, a pack of 10 high quality rechargeable batteries will run the mount for hours.

And this way, you have motor drive in each axis with much higher panning speed than with traditional GMS.

I encourage you to re-think your requirement. I don't know why anyone would want an non Go-To mount these days when Go-To is just an "Option" where you can choose to use it or choose not to use it.

Anyway, if you will consider used, the three mounts I mentioned would all be excellent choices. I have owned all three and liked them all.

#4 Joe Aguiar

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:10 PM

hi eddie well to answer your question y i wouldnt want an eq goto mount, simple why you i want to pay double for a mount with goto features when i dont wanna pay for them or i dont wanna use them?
An exaple is i can get a brand new CG5 mount for about $300 where if i got the ASGT mount or the LXD-75 mount they still go for 799 plus taxes, so theres no point to pay more than double to get those features if i dont want it, thats why i asked if they are any non goto semi large EQ mounts.

you are correct they did make HeQ5 and EQ6 sevral yrs ago without goto but they are really hard to find now since after that it seems all eq mounts are goto.

So sure used is ok too so is there any? or iam stuck to buying a EQ goto mount and paying double for it?

You would think manufactures would make both kinds maybe one with slow motion controls built in but not goto
joe

#5 BoldAxis1967

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:25 PM

You would think manufactures would make both kinds maybe one with slow motion controls built in but not goto

joe



I also wish manufactures made such mounts. The only mount in the 30 pound weight class that might meet your requirements is the Vixen GPD2. But they are fairly expensive relative to the competition. It is about $1100 for the mount and tripod and this is without motors.

LB

#6 SkipW

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:35 PM

you are correct they did make HeQ5 and EQ6 sevral yrs ago without goto but they are really hard to find now since after that it seems all eq mounts are goto.
...
You would think manufactures would make both kinds maybe one with slow motion controls built in but not goto
joe

Perhaps the answer is right here. Are those non-GT mounts scarce now because few were ever sold? It's just not worth it for manufacturers to provide a distinct line of product (with the initial engineering and manufacturing of small quantities of manual-control parts, stocking spares, writing documentation and instructions, providing support [and upgrade kits - and their support], etc.) if it doesn't sell well.

If, say, Celestron offered an all-manual CGEM today, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it cost about as much to build as the current GoTo model. They'd maybe sell a few tens of those vs. a few thousand of the electronic one. Due to economies of scale, just think of it as getting the GoTo options for free. Use it on not as you prefer.

#7 wargrafix

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:02 AM

honestly, due to some polar slignment issues i had i used the advanced gt manually and found it moved nicely. goto is icing versus the whole cake sometimes

#8 Joe Aguiar

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:05 AM

SkipW i dont think thats true before 76 years ago and before that the CG5 & EQ5 sold by the thousands, every 4.7" refrector and every reflector over 6" sold with these EQ5 or CG5 mounts. Its not that they didnt sell, it they slowly starting changing to goto only after that, i think because theres more profit in it only.

Like i stated you can get a CG5 or EQ5 ( same mount without goto ) for like $250 but one with goto goes for $799 plus taxes, so its like paying for the mount and getting the goto free though, if they had a goto CG5 mount for $250 then your statment would be true and sure then everyone may as well get one cause the goto is free anyone but thats not the case, the goto doubles the price and if they break your screwed but the manual version can last forever (almost in comparision)
joe

#9 orlyandico

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:45 AM

Most of the cost of the mount is the mechanicals. The electronics and motors are probably a hundred bucks tops. Total. So there's much more margin in the electronics than in the mechanicals.

#10 wargrafix

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:18 AM

if goto breaks you can still use it manually, just no tracking or slow motion controls.

#11 Eddgie

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 02:13 PM

You would think manufactures would make both kinds maybe one with slow motion controls built in but not goto
joe



No, I would not think that at all. If I were a manufacturer, I would make what I get orders for and if I was not getting orders for manual mounts, I would not make any.

As mentioned, you can buy Non Go-To mounts, but they are often more expensive than Go-To mounts in the same weight class.

The Vixen GP2s are quite pricy, and the Losmandy GM8 looks inexpensive by comparison because it has far nicer build quality and more carry capacity.

How many Vixen GP2s do you think they are selling? Vixen is almost gone from the marketplace, having lost most of their import deals in recent years because their product was not moving.

The mass market manufacturers build to the demands of the market, and there are smaller players that come in with cheap clones (CG5 type scopes, but often not to the same quality of the Celestron mounts, which were never of the same quality of the Vixen mounts, which were not selling because they cost more than a Go-To mount).

Its business.

If you think there is demand, there are people in China that will build you a thousand CG5 mounts to whatever quality level you desire.

Can you sell a thousand of them though? That is the question.

If they can't build you a thousand, they would prefer to find a customer order for a thousand Go-To mounts to fill.

That is why it is called "Mass Production." It only works when you build a lot of them, and that only works if you can sell a lot of them.

#12 Ranger Tim

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 02:28 PM

The Losmandy GM-8 is an excellent non go-to mount and tracks well. You can even do astrophotography with it. If you need more capacity the G11 is also made in a non-go-to version.

Yes, they are expensive, but they are good quality mounts. Also check out the Vixen Great Polaris mounts. You may find a new Vixen that even has slow motion hand controls.

#13 schluterdude

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:29 PM

If Your looking for a semi-pier eq, I have the "pier-o-pod" eq mount w/ RA clock drive (110v) from an old starfinder. The OTA is about 20lbs sans camera, and it was a rock solid set up. The OTA now lives on a goto eq, so I have the pier sitting there....

#14 BoldAxis1967

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 05:12 PM

You may find a new Vixen that even has slow motion hand controls



The GPD2 does have slow motion control handles.

LB

#15 Falcon-

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 05:52 PM

As an owner of a CI-700 with 492 digital drive I can confirm it does have rather nice slow-motion controls, including clutches on the slow-mo/drive interface such that you can use the slow-motion controls while the drives are operating. Certainly is on the heavier side though, perhaps even slightly more then the EQ6, but as already said if you can find one used it would be a good option.

#16 gmartin02

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 06:11 PM

If the companies that used to make the the non-GOTO versions of the mounts were making good money on them, I'm sure they would still be selling them. I suspect the margins for them were almost non-existent. Sorry, but these large retailers/rebranders aren't going to design/order mounts for products that they only sell a few units per year and break even or lose money on.

#17 orlyandico

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:38 PM

G11 or CI-700 used would be the best choice. The non-GoTo EQ6 doesn't have slo-mo. You can find non-GoTo Vixen GPDX for $600 range, but buying motors (or GoTo) for it down the road would be quite expensive.

#18 jrcrilly

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:41 PM

G11 or CI-700 used would be the best choice. The non-GoTo EQ6 doesn't have slo-mo.


Nor does the G11 - but the CI-700 does.

#19 Messyone

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 08:48 AM

Do you mean a mount with flexi manual controls?
Or do you mean a mount with electric motors?
I use an NEQ6 with version 3.35 software. It doesn't have the flexi hand controls but it's easy to skip all the alignment bits and go straight to manual control using the handset and motors to move about...easy.
Of course it can be a Goto as well....a great mount and I have had a manual EQ5 a motor driven HEQ5 (non goto) and the NEQ6 beats them all....and along the way I learnt how to polar align and use goto when I want! The best of both worlds :jump:
Now the price was the best part....used for $1 K delivered.
Matt

#20 Joe Aguiar

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:30 AM

i dont mind a mount with manual flex controls and i can add a single or dual axis motors but i also dont mind electric motors built in too which this is my first pic, something like the first gen HEQ5 with motors but without the goto
joe

#21 jwheel

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 11:05 AM

You might try this company:

http://www.opticcraft.com/

Joe Wheelock

#22 Cerberus

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:20 PM

I hear what this guy's saying...

I would like a sub-$1K mount with NO GO-TO OR DECODERS, just an EQ mount with nice big manual controls and a RA drive on a clutch capable of carrying 40-50lbs.

It sucks that only premium mounts fall into this category, because I know there are others who have no use for a Go-To system. There's no reason a simple mount with the most basic features like this should run more than 800 dollars. Well, other than limited sales...

#23 jrcrilly

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:42 PM

It sucks that only premium mounts fall into this category, because I know there are others who have no use for a Go-To system. There's no reason a simple mount with the most basic features like this should run more than 800 dollars. Well, other than limited sales...


When introduced, the Chinese EQ-6 was the first low-cost mount in that weight/feature class. I think it sold for more than that even back then. I dunno how you are going to beat the Chinese on price.

#24 Cerberus

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 07:21 PM

I understand, however... IIRC the Synta EQ6 came with a controller (dual axis) and dual axis motors, along with all the bits and engineering already in place for the planned Go-To system. Cut those off and the price goes down a bit. In addition NOW that it has been available for years, the design and manufacturing costs have long been recouped why would a stripped down version with manual controls and a RA drive be more than $800?

I think that a big beefy mount, something like the old DS-16 updated with better tolerances and no fancy gizmos would be greatly appreciated, but unfortunately probably not sell as well as the fancy pants computerized mounts.

I just see a trend by manufacturers of compromising optics and actual USEABLE features to include flashy tech, and its very disappointing.

#25 SkipW

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:20 AM

I hear what this guy's saying...

I would like a sub-$1K mount with NO GO-TO OR DECODERS, just an EQ mount with nice big manual controls and a RA drive on a clutch capable of carrying 40-50lbs.

It sucks that only premium mounts fall into this category, because I know there are others who have no use for a Go-To system. There's no reason a simple mount with the most basic features like this should run more than 800 dollars. Well, other than limited sales...

Bold added. That, very succinctly, is the entire problem. Small production runs are expensive per piece compared to large production runs. Then you have to get dealers to stock a slow-moving item in parallel with the more popular model, and someone (presumably) has to stock the odd parts to replace the ones that invariably get lost, damaged, or fail.

I feel the pain. I prefer cars with manual transmissions (much better fuel economy and peppier all else the same, and you actually drive them instead of just supervising), but these are very rare other than very basic economy cars, some trucks, specialty vehicles, and exotics, none of which appeal to me as a daily driver. They can be found in some mainstream models, but the choices are limited and no cheaper than an automatic in the same model. I'm not going to waste my time demanding that manufacturers make more of their popular models with 5 or 6-speed manual transmissions and sell them for less because a manual obviously should be cheaper to build than an automatic. I already tilt at enough windmills (plus, my 2000 V6 Toyota Camry with 5-speed manual transmission still has less than 200,000 miles, so I'm looking for at least a couple more years from it - original clutch, too).






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