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CGEM DX with C14?

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#1 Baxstar

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:14 AM

Hi,

I'm thinking of buying a C14 on a CGEM DX mount. Does any one have experience with this setup? Pros? Cons? Setup pictures etc? I need as much information as possible!

I'm especially interested in balance problems and dewproblems and how did you solve these problems?

Thx!
Casper

#2 jrbarnett

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:22 PM

No...no...no...no...no...

- Jim

#3 rmollise

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:33 PM

You've used this configuration, Jim?

OP: Depends on what you want. I wouldn't advise it for serious imaging, but for general use it's at least a little bit better than a G11/C14 combo.

#4 jrbarnett

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:39 PM

Nope. But I have an Atlas on a concrete pier, and it struggled a bit with a C11. Undermounting is a great sin. :grin:

Regards,

Jim

#5 dragonslayer1

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:40 PM

Rod, am curious why not for serious imaging, the mount or scope? and by serious you talking tracking capability? Thank you,
Kasey

#6 rmollise

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 04:00 PM

I'm not saying you can't do any imaging with it. People have done good work with G11s, even. This is a big OTA with a lot of focal length though. It is certainly sufficient for video, or for the kind of CCD work most of us do--5 - 10 minute subs. For "6-hours of LRGB," though you probably need to kick it up a notch.

#7 dragonslayer1

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 04:07 PM

ok, thats what I was thinking you meant, very long exposures. thank you, Kasey

#8 Wouter D'hoye

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:38 AM

Hi,

Although I have no personal experience with the mount or a C14 based on the specs I doubt it would be an really good match. What are your goals with this kind of setup? Solely visual use? Lunar/planetary imaging? Deep sky astro photography? I agree with Rod that it probably can be done. But I'm quite sure that it will not be easy.

I'd personally suggest that you either go for a lighter optic or save some longer for a mount that's really up to the task of carrying such a big telescope.

Remember, if you consider any kind of imaging, the mount is the single most important part of your setup.

Kind regards,

Wouter.

#9 Baxstar

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 08:10 AM

I will only use it for visual observations. Celestron site suggests that an CGEM DX will hold 23kg of payload and a C14 is 'only' 20kg.. 3kg for finder and eyepieces?

EDIT: if you don't think the CGEM DX will do the job visually which mount would you suggest? Please don't come with an AP mount.. I'm only 17 years old so I don't have that much money to spend :(

Casper

#10 Jim Romanski

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:16 AM

I have a CGEM DX and it's quite a beast. It's significantly larger than the CGEM and Atlas. I think it would work fine with a C14 visually. I haven't done any imaging with it yet so I can't answer that.

I bought it to do observing with several telescopes including my old 8" Cave. I strapped the Cave on once to try it and no problem with the load. I need to figure out a permenant method of mounting it.

I intend to do some imaging with my NP127 which is quite a bit lighter than a C14. I can tell you that if I carefully polar align the NP127 on the CGEM DX I can up an object in the eyepiece go in the house for a couple of hours and it's still centered.

Now that I have the CGEM DX I'm considering getting a C11 or C14. But that will have to wait for my hobby budget to recover.

#11 Baxstar

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:34 AM

Hi Jim,

Your NP127 is a lot lighter if I'm correct, but good to hear that it tracks very well ;)

Nobody with CGEM DX + C14 experience?

Casper

#12 snommisbor

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:55 PM

Well I see Celestron actually sells that set up but that just seems like you are at the outer limits of that mount and after you add the essential items to the scope it is maxed to the hilt on it. But for visual only it could work but even then how solid would it be from vibrations? I never heard of a C14 on anything smaller than a CGE or 60# and up type of mount capacity. According to Celestron's website a 50# capacity and a 45# scope that is without anything on it.

#13 korborh

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:34 PM

The CGEM DX is a very sturdy mount/tripod. I think C14+CGEMDX would be ok for visual or planetary imaging where extreme tracking accuracy is not required. But I would not recommend it for long-exp high res DSO work with C14.

#14 rmollise

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:53 PM

Well I see Celestron actually sells that set up but that just seems like you are at the outer limits of that mount and after you add the essential items to the scope it is maxed to the hilt on it. But for visual only it could work but even then how solid would it be from vibrations? I never heard of a C14 on anything smaller than a CGE


I've actually used this setup. The CGEM DX is more stable with a C14 than a G11/CGE based on my experience. ;)

#15 Baxstar

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 03:37 PM

I won't take any images with this setup so it doesn't need to track super well. It just needs to hold the object in my FOV for 30minutes max!

Uncle Rod, thanks for your reply! Nice to know that it worked for you. And you used for C14 with all the items needed? Eyepieces (the more heavy eyepieces 400+ gram), finder etc? And do you have a nice picture of that setup?

Casper

#16 rmollise

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:22 PM

Yep, definitely had a great big eyepiece and a finder too. No, I didn't take a picture of the rig...but you can see it on Celestron's web page. :cool:

#17 dr.who

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:54 PM

Saw this combo in action (don't own it) for visual and it will work fine. Just like a Edge 1100/11" SCT will work fine on a AVX if one is willing to put up with some vibration. And that includes a 60mm finder as well as Delos (in this case Delos was used) EP's which are like hand grenades and a Losmandy rail.

The big question in my mind would be why a 14"? I ask because that is quite a big scope and to get it's full potential you will want very good skies. I was out this last weekend with my 11" and sky conditions were rubbish so I couldn't go much deeper EP wise than my 17mm Ethos with the 21mm being better. At that point I was wishing I had brought my APO.

For the price of the 14 on a DX you could get a Edge 1100 on a CGEM and a decent APO refractor in the 102-127mm range as well as some EP's and other kit which would give you a nice big light bucket for detail on small objects and a nice wide field fast scope for AP, wide field viewing, and those nights when seeing is not as good.

#18 T1R2

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 06:10 PM

you will soon grow weary of setting up that beast every night, you'll need reasonably steady skies, the field of view will be narrow even with a F/6.3 reducer, larger star clusters will not fit in the field of view, so you'll have a limited target range, never go by the manufactures payload capacity, cut that in half, consider the length of the OTA you choose as well, if its only for visual then why would you want to under mount it if your going to constantly be touching it, the C14 will def jiggle on the CGEM DX, so will a C11 though not as bad on the same mount, but just as bad on a VX, I'd be looking at a smaller, more fun/less work set up. The C14 has its uses, but your not going to like not being able to get the object('s) in the FOV, Had I the choices that we have today when I was starting out, I'd seriously be looking at 4-6" short focal length refractor for that CGEM, you already have a nice 9.25" Cass. a C11 would be better on that CGEM than a C14. If you do under mount, you wont be able to expand or equipment, but hey, everyone else seems to be happy under mounting, it might work for you also. good luck in your choice and be happy with whatever you get because in the end we all need to learn on our own.

#19 sewhite

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:17 AM

I like Dr. Who's advice of getting the CGEM-DX with a 11" Edge HD and use the remaining funds on accessories and a refactor. It would be a more versatile and easy to use kit.
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#20 rmollise

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:05 PM

The C14 has its uses, but your not going to like not being able to get the object('s) in the FOV


That makes common sense, but common sense is often wrong. The fact is, most of the objects we look at, the vast majority, are on the small side and fit perfectly well in the field of a C14, even at f/11.

The main reason for not choosing the C14 is being able to get it on the mount. With the correct approach, that isn't overly hard. As I said before, the mount is at least better than the G11 with the C14. I do urge anyone contemplating a C14 for portable use to try before you buy. ;)

As for the mount with a C11? I haven't noticed any "jiggle" at all with that configuraton. ;)

#21 WesC

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:40 PM

I too would suggest a C11 Edge over a C14 Edge. The size and weight difference is really noticeable and you will still be able to see PLENTY with the C11. I use a C11 Edge on a CGEM (not DX) and its wonderful, no "jiggling" at all as long as I keep the tripod low. It is still a bit to set up, but I'm not killing myself to do it at all. A DX is a LOT heavier and taller, and the C14 is a monster of a scope. I do like the suggestion of getting a C11 and also getting a small refractor to add to things. You'd have a lot of fun with that.

That said, for visual a C14 and a CGEM-DX will work just fine, balancing is really the key. get it well balance and well aligned and you can have lots of fun with it.

But if you have ANY designs on astro-imaging in the future, you WILL need an CGE-PRO, AP mount or a Paramount to pull it off with the C14. Its just too big and heavy.

#22 rmollise

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 02:35 PM

I too would suggest a C11 Edge over a C14 Edge. The size and weight difference is really noticeable and you will still be able to see PLENTY with the C11. I use a C11 Edge on a CGEM (not DX) and its wonderful, no "jiggling" at all as long as I keep the tripod low. It is still a bit to set up, but I'm not killing myself to do it at all. A DX is a LOT heavier and taller, and the C14 is a monster of a scope. I do like the suggestion of getting a C11 and also getting a small refractor to add to things. You'd have a lot of fun with that.

That said, for visual a C14 and a CGEM-DX will work just fine, balancing is really the key. get it well balance and well aligned and you can have lots of fun with it.

But if you have ANY designs on astro-imaging in the future, you WILL need an CGE-PRO, AP mount or a Paramount to pull it off with the C14. Its just too big and heavy.


There is no doubt the more expensive mounts are better for AP...BUT...quite a few superb images have been done with C14s and G11s and CGEs (not CGE pros) and CI700s over the years, and the CGEM DX is at least in that league. ;)

#23 WesC

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 04:41 PM

There is no doubt the more expensive mounts are better for AP...BUT...quite a few superb images have been done with C14s and G11s and CGEs (not CGE pros) and CI700s over the years, and the CGEM DX is at least in that league. ;)


Well, that's true, but its not so much about the quality of the results as it is the amount of effort and skill needed to get there.

Since this young man is new to the hobby (assumed of course) he may not be aware of the pitfalls and frustrations of attempting long focal length AP on an overloaded Chinese mount. I know I sure wasn't! :lol: :tonofbricks:

#24 rmollise

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 04:49 PM

And he may not be ready to spend 10,000 dollars on a mount, either. I'm still not... :lol:

#25 WesC

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:36 PM

Me neither! But it doesn't stop me from trying to save up for an AP1100! :bawling: :lol:






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