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Roaming around Hadley.

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#1 cpsTN

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 09:52 PM

Thought I would try to find Hadley Rille tonight with the dob. Either the seeing didn't like me or this rille is shy,or the terminator was not close enough to it. Took several movings of magnifications to even see any of it. Seeing the crater around which this rille moves is was easy. I finally saw the part south of this crater but only in and out; none of the part North. Seeing wasn't great, so couldn't too high. Found the part I did find at mag 150x or so. It's the hunt and peck of observing! :grin:

#2 Rick Woods

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:02 PM

I was looking at Hadley last night at about 250x. It was very sharp and I could see the Apollo 15 landing area clearly by the elbow of the rille. It did take me a while to zero in on it, though; it looks different on the Moon than it does on charts or in photos!

#3 azure1961p

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:02 PM

Charles you too!!!!

I just got in moments ago with the 6" sct in 8/10 seeing - so the views were crisp though a little fleeting...

I agree below the crater that sits along side it the rille wavered in and out but north of it was another story. I thought I had suggestions but too inconclusive. Highest mag that worked was 266x . The trouble that pervaded the session and eventually had me shut down was the darned clouds. The moment my scope was equalized they came in like a massive uniform front. I had to wait for the holes. Other interesting things...

I tried real hard for the catena by Beer and I glimpsed one lone craterlets blemish at 1.2 miles across. No definition just an albedo blemish. Craters that were just a mile wider nearby showed the classic half filled with shadow sculptural look. In the best moments I resolved the triple craterlet grouping in this pic - between Beer and Bancroft.

Rick, you got prime time light and shadow - sun was to steep tonight - I'm a little surprised I saw as much as I did. That little Celestron 6 is a potent scope.



Pete

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#4 azure1961p

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:04 PM

Here's a pic of the Hadley Rille area for reference with the crater discussed...

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#5 Rick Woods

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 07:41 PM

Good picture! You took that with your C6???
I didn't get that good of a look at it.

#6 azure1961p

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:56 PM

No its off the app MOON HD. The top half of that rille beyond that crater beside it was invisible. There was those tickle moments where you thought something was about to emerge but - nah. The lower half didnt have the bi-tone contrast as in the pick as the lighting angle was too steep. Still the rille was seen with some sense of its 1/2 mile width. Still, do wonder if my 8" would've nailed the invisible part. The C6 was on top of its game that night though Rick - beautiful crisp cut views. All the arguments and comparisons on scopes really evaporate when a view like that comes along - and for a comparative pittance to other instruments. I love the 6" - its the perfect mid-grade between my scopes.



Hey ordering Epic Moon Rick - I need another Sheehan read and I understand this one is excellent. I want all the guys books frankly.

Pete

#7 Sarkikos

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 08:10 AM

Pete,

No its off the app MOON HD. The top half of that rille beyond that crater beside it was invisible. There was those tickle moments where you thought something was about to emerge but - nah. The lower half didnt have the bi-tone contrast as in the pick as the lighting angle was too steep. Still the rille was seen with some sense of its 1/2 mile width. Still, do wonder if my 8" would've nailed the invisible part. The C6 was on top of its game that night though Rick - beautiful crisp cut views. All the arguments and comparisons on scopes really evaporate when a view like that comes along - and for a comparative pittance to other instruments. I love the 6" - its the perfect mid-grade between my scopes.


I wish I'd taken out my C6 for Moon viewing Monday night, one of the few clear nights we've had lately. But by the time I got home, ate dinner, and thought about setting the C6 out on the porch for cool-down, I changed my mind. Nights when I have to work the next day are not good for me. I have to get up at six am. Five more years to retirement. :(

As it stands now, the next clear night is Friday, a Full Moon. I guess I'll have to make do with observing libration areas, crater rays and albedo spots.

Do you set your C6 out beforehand for cooling? If so, how much time do you give it?

Hey ordering Epic Moon Rick - I need another Sheehan read and I understand this one is excellent. I want all the guys books frankly.


I was just looking at that one at Willmann-Bell. Epic Moon has been on my short list for a long time.

Mike

#8 azure1961p

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 09:52 AM

Hi Mike,

Ill give it a full hour for full cooling but after thirty minutes I start observing - I just realize it'll sharpen up a tad more with another fifteen to 30 min. On nights where indoor and outdoor temps are comparable ill say its 30 min. Maybe more . The thing is the air inside the tube needs to reach outside air than the mirrors and such have to follow suit. I'd say about 45 min is a fair average for time. I've heard of folks clAiming 15 minutes but got the life of me I don't see how the air inside can cool that quick much less the glass even if its s 5 degree difference. My 7omm refractor by contrast is 20 to 25 minutes or so. My reflector with fans a blowing is 30 minutes to a full hour depending if its July or January.

In all cases ill pre-empt equilibrium with observing but I will keep the magnification low till it settles down.

One thing Ive cone to appreciate the high sun angle phase like you'll have Friday is this lighting is a phenomenal for detecting composition albedo. Question about crater or rille visibility can be answered with a full moon view. Sometimes a kind of pseudo res on craterlets that defies Rayleigh can be answered be seeing under high angle illumination that there is a distinct apron if high contrast deposit larger than the crater itself,

- yeah the Sheehan book should be all that!

I'm still waiting for that c6/150 Mak shoot out Mike!!!

Pete

#9 Sarkikos

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:16 AM

Ill give it a full hour for full cooling but after thirty minutes I start observing - I just realize it'll sharpen up a tad more with another fifteen to 30 min. On nights where indoor and outdoor temps are comparable ill say its 30 min. Maybe more . The thing is the air inside the tube needs to reach outside air than the mirrors and such have to follow suit. I'd say about 45 min is a fair average for time. I've heard of folks clAiming 15 minutes but got the life of me I don't see how the air inside can cool that quick much less the glass even if its s 5 degree difference.


Yep, 45 min average cool-down for the C6 pretty much agrees with my area. If you figure 15 min or so for actual setup in the field - i.e., moving everything beside my building and getting myself settled in to observe - maybe I could get by with a 30 min cool-down period on the porch for the C6.

Mike

#10 Sarkikos

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:23 AM

One thing Ive cone to appreciate the high sun angle phase like you'll have Friday is this lighting is a phenomenal for detecting composition albedo. Question about crater or rille visibility can be answered with a full moon view. Sometimes a kind of pseudo res on craterlets that defies Rayleigh can be answered be seeing under high angle illumination that there is a distinct apron if high contrast deposit larger than the crater itself


Yes, but some of the Moon mavens here on CN will say that seeing the albedo spot is not seeing the crater! Don't you know that unless you can see that black-white crater-bowl shading you don't see the crater? If the deep sky enthusiasts were that strict about seeing DSO, I'd have to hand in my H400 Badge. :grin:

When I was experimenting with colored filters for Moon viewing, I found that a blue filter can make the albedo spots more obvious. I don't know why, but that's the effect I saw.

Mike

#11 Sarkikos

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:31 AM

I'm still waiting for that c6/150 Mak shoot out Mike!!!


So am I! Many obstacles have been thrown in my way since I first offered to compare the C6 and 6" Mak. I planned on doing that sometime this past summer, but I was out of the game all summer with injuries. Summer or Fall would be the ideal time around here. Maybe some Saturday night when the Moon and a planet are up and there's good seeing at my dark site. I like to reserve New Moon's for the 10" Dob and DSO.

The C6 and 150 Mak are too much gear to set up here at home in a public area. I really feel more comfortable 50 miles away in a state park.

I suppose Winter would be OK, as long as the Mak could cool-down before I put everything back in the vehicle to go home. But then the seeing is usually terrible during Winter in my area. :shrug:

Mike

#12 photonovore

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:09 AM

Yes, but some of the Moon mavens here on CN will say that seeing the albedo spot is not seeing the crater! Don't you know that unless you can see that black-white crater-bowl shading you don't see the crater? If the deep sky enthusiasts were that strict about seeing DSO, I'd have to hand in my H400 Badge. :grin:


Now, now! There *are* a number of different resolution regimes we "mavens" recognize (including undifferentiated fuzzballs in space and miscl lunar freckles, thanks very much). ;)

#13 Sarkikos

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:12 AM

I suppose even we lunatics can get partial credit!

:grin:
Mike

#14 azure1961p

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:51 PM

Yes some hold true to the half filled with shadow craterlets or it isn't resolved enough . I agree to a point but when I do glimpse crater spots (dark) even though I can't see the sculptural effect of light and shadow its still very rewarding to me to even see the speck. I just log it not as "resolved" per se' but again, detected as a speck. Resolution Ive come to appreciate, is a transition with differing definitions depending what point a given detail is at before fading away altogether.

Pete

#15 Rick Woods

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:47 AM

Hey ordering Epic Moon Rick - I need another Sheehan read and I understand this one is excellent. I want all the guys books frankly.


It really is good, you're going to like it.

#16 coopman

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:49 AM

6 AM? That would be "sleeping in" for me. I get up at 4:15 AM on work days.

#17 Sarkikos

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:17 AM

That would leave you even less scope time than me during the work week. :ohgeeze:

Mike

#18 David Knisely

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:15 PM

Not long after I got the refigured mirrors back for my 14 inch "Black Mamba" Dob, I got a good night at a numbing -4F. Normally, seeing isn't terribly good at that low of a temperature, but that night, it was beyond outstanding. I had no trouble tracing Hadley Rille out most of its full length and could easily see the shallow 2 km craterlet "Saint George" sitting at the base of Hadley Delta (the Apollo 15 astronauts drove over to near its rim). I could even get hints of the "bump" of the north complex although none of the craterlets that make up the complex were visible. The scope was resolving craterlets well down into the 1 km diameter range, so I was more than satisfied that the mirror refiguring job by Mike Lockwood had been done properly. Clear skies to you.

#19 Sarkikos

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 06:04 AM

I want a 14" Dob with tracking and good optics! That will be my retirement scope.

:grin:
Mike

#20 starcrafter

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:46 PM

6 AM? That would be "sleeping in" for me. I get up at 4:15 AM on work days.


6am! That's my bedtime!

#21 azure1961p

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 07:55 AM

]Not long after I got the refigured mirrors back for my 14 inch "Black Mamba" Dob, I got a good night at a numbing -4F. Normally, seeing isn't terribly good at that low of a temperature, but that night, it was beyond outstanding.


Dave that kind if seeing here happens but its so exceedingly rare. the crushing part is - unlike summer where it can be great for stretches - those rare winter nights leave you with a hard landing the next night when I go out hoping for the same!

I had no trouble tracing Hadley Rille out most of its full length and could easily see the shallow 2 km craterlet "Saint George" sitting at the base of Hadley Delta (the Apollo 15 astronauts drove over to near its rim). I could even get hints of the "bump" of the north complex although none of the craterlets that make up the complex were visible. The scope was resolving craterlets well down into the 1 km diameter range, so I was more than satisfied that the mirror refiguring job by Mike Lockwood had been done properly. Clear skies to you.


- there no way you could pull all that off with soft optics - your mirror sounds like a true gem - and its nice to see it in a big aperture. I'm particularly impressed with your catching the complex as a unit of contrast.
That's over the top Dave. Very nice account.

Pete

#22 Sarkikos

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:18 AM

6am! That's my bedtime!


Now, that's more like it! :waytogo:

Mike

#23 RobDob

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 01:21 AM

This thread has put Hadley on the top of my lunar bucket list. Tonight, was able to see parts of the rille (that weren't submerged in shadows) very nicely through my Z12!

Caught the rille elbow/Apollo 15 landing site in a pic that I posted here (note that the point and shoot pic does not do justice to what the eye can see):

http://www.cloudynig...6187877/page...

Rob

#24 A6Q6

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 09:48 AM

" I need another Sheehan read and I understand this one is excellent." I fully agree, you will really like it.

#25 azure1961p

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 08:46 PM

Yes it's proving to be a great book - just trying to get time to read it.

Pete






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