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Light pollution woes in Trinidad

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#1 wargrafix

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 09:44 AM

I want to relate something that happened yesterday evening. Please be patient with me. It relates to how even the local blackout had little improvement where the surrounding area bleeds light in the sky.

In trinidad its local government election time, and the candidate are out and about. I met the candidate for the present ruling party and I expressed the light pollution problem in my area. I gave him examples where lighting was not just wasteful but terribly inconvenient to people living in the area.

The light for a sport ground which about, say a mid to smaller savannah ground has enough lighting to light something 3 times the size and throws a horrible light dome. Please note that there were SMALLER light fixtures that was also extremely bright but because they were not tall did not throw a big light dome.

His response was the support of sporting activities in the night, which I responded, "At 1 a.m. in the morning?"
He spoke about safety for walkers (For a moment my brain ran to "the walking dead") I responded that the previous lights were very bright and as a walker myself even I thought it was too bright.

The conversation went on for a little while and he mentioned they would install cutoff light fixtures to go off at 10p.m. but they must be on for 3 months for testing purposes.I said it was appreciated but the lights themselves are very bight and that was for 1 ground and all of the grounds have these ridiculous lights.

He said that noise pollution was a far greater threat than light pollution. I simply pointed to the loudspeakers blaring the party music for his campaign and said "like that?" He stood there a bit dumbfounded and I casually strolled back inside my house.

Problem is...all of the candidates think the same...sigh...

#2 George N

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:44 AM

You've offered yet another reason for the need for additional 'education' efforts on LP. I sounds to me like your "candidate" is well-meaning enough, but like much of the public, just doesn't understand the issue.

#3 wargrafix

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 02:33 PM

He said people in the area complained about the insufficient lighting but i can tell you there are people irritated about trouble sleeping with all those lights. The response in this country is one where pretty bright lights solves everything.

The laws on light pollution and standards a skinny because they don't see the value of natural beauty. I think it has to do with the laid back attitude to natural disasters and the complete and utter lack of willingness to responsibility for man made disasters further compounds the problem.

#4 amicus sidera

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:40 PM

As long as those totally enamored with and engrossed in "sports" outnumber those of us with at least half a brain, the problem with field and stadium lighting is likely to persist; the duller mentalities, whose idea of high culture is ESPN, look at astronomy the way that sheep look at cars going by on the highway.

I hope that you're able to make some headway; Trinidad is far too nice a place to suffer from all that LP.

#5 Kfrank

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:56 PM

As long as those totally enamored with and engrossed in "sports" outnumber those of us with at least half a brain, the problem with field and stadium lighting is likely to persist; the duller mentalities, whose idea of high culture is ESPN, look at astronomy the way that sheep look at cars going by on the highway.

I hope that you're able to make some headway; Trinidad is far too nice a place to suffer from all that LP.


I understand where you're coming from but must you be so relentlessly demeaning of, and superior toward, those who don't share your views and whose pastimes you disapprove of?

That approach isn't likely to solve ANY problems.

"Duller mentality" - Can you be any more insulting?

If you approach your neighbors with that attitude of arrogant superiority, no wonder you have problems.

#6 amicus sidera

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:15 PM

As long as those totally enamored with and engrossed in "sports" outnumber those of us with at least half a brain, the problem with field and stadium lighting is likely to persist; the duller mentalities, whose idea of high culture is ESPN, look at astronomy the way that sheep look at cars going by on the highway.

I hope that you're able to make some headway; Trinidad is far too nice a place to suffer from all that LP.


I understand where you're coming from but must you be so relentlessly demeaning of, and superior toward, those who don't share your views and whose pastimes you disapprove of?

That approach isn't likely to solve ANY problems.

"Duller mentality" - Can you be any more insulting?

If you approach your neighbors with that attitude of arrogant superiority, no wonder you have problems.


I call 'em as I sees 'em; if you don't care for my comments, please feel free to ignore them.

#7 FirstSight

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 07:02 PM

As long as those totally enamored with and engrossed in "sports" outnumber those of us with at least half a brain, the problem with field and stadium lighting is likely to persist; the duller mentalities, whose idea of high culture is ESPN, look at astronomy the way that sheep look at cars going by on the highway.


I am not-so-indirectly complicit in the problem of sports field lighting, since the funding for my astronomy equipment comes entirely from the income from my other serious avocation, soccer refereeing (including high school varsity games played under the lights as well as adult and competitive youth games at a well-lit soccer complex). That would be four nights this past week alone. However, the high school games are generally finished by 8:30-9pm, with lights out within a half-hour, but the adult games can run as late as just past 11pm.

The newer facility lights are better-directed and to an extent, better top-shielded than older ones, but I'll make the guilty admission that during the late fall/winter/early spring when darkness falls fairly early, occasionally when I'm trying to find my way to a school I haven't been to before, the stadium lights make a handy navigation beacon telling me I'm getting ballpark close.

The upside: the lights are too expensive to run very long beyond the conclusion of an actual sporting event for schools and most private soccer clubs or public-owned soccer complexes. A bigger problem for astronomy after around 10pm are all the houses in semi-rural areas who put up totally unshielded bright "barn lights" or small businesses which put up super-bright "security" lights on all night long.

#8 Kfrank

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 08:05 PM

Fred,

I don't follow nor watch team sports. Just don't like 'em.

I do have a number of friends who do, however. Many of whom are my intellectual equals or superiors. Denigrating people based on their choices of entertainment is simply wrong. Like it or not, we are a diverse people with many likes and dislikes. There are many things I chose not to do but for me to ridicule those who chose these things because of their choices, diminishes me as a person and marks me as small, shallow and mean spirited.

You're right, I shall, in the future, ignore (and discount) your postings as the rantings of an intolerant person. After all, David Duke just "called 'em as he saw 'em".

#9 wargrafix

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:50 AM

What the? ok, things got a bit hot here.

I play cricket and football, and I can tell you, the lights don't help when they that bright. Imagine catching a ball....while staring into the sun.

Pollutions of all sorts happen because of the belief that "iTS NOT MY PROBLEM" Or as the divali program I went to continues to preach "light over darkness".Lightglow is a problem that doesn't seem to be getting better and for a population of 1.3 million, its crazy.

The problem lies with:
1) uncontrolled development and lax standards for light pollution. Industrial areas are the worst.
2) A terrible police force whose inability to show up leads people to think that brighter lights will deter bandits.
3) Sports is given ridiculous amounts of money that really benefits a few and really, who ultimately benefits from all that money spent? 1 or two, maybe a cricket and football side but that is a small percentage that will benefit.

Its a social issue that continues to be a source of problems.

#10 StarStuff1

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:53 AM

It is a shame about those lights yet that attitude prevails in MANY parts of the Earth.

About 17 years ago my wife and I spent a week on your neighbor island Tobago. No light problems there! Stunningly beautiful island and very dark skies. I hope it hasn't been spoiled, too.

#11 wargrafix

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:46 AM

Its actually not bad in tobago. Its a different attitude there. A more love for country attitude. Of course things aren't perfect but compared to trinidad its much better. You want to hear the weird thing? On our east coast where there isn't much population, the skies are like bortle 1. But the oil rigs are going to threaten that too.






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