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TLP Article in Dec. S&T

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#1 Rick Woods

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 11:21 AM

Chuck Wood has an article in S&T on the 1963 TLP sighting by Greenacre and Barr. Check it out.

#2 DavidNealMinnick

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 01:44 PM

Hmm, looks like my issue is late again! Edit: Issue arrived with Sat. afternoon's delivery. Joy!

#3 A6Q6

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 04:22 PM

Hi Rick, I hope this time S&T will print other opinions that don't go along with Chuck Woods, Years ago S&T printed an article by Dobbins and Sheehan from their book "Epic Moon",(Very good book) where they only believed in "atmospheric prismatic dispersion for TLP'S. I have never seen any TLP's but I value other peoples research. S&T didn't allow any other opinions and there were plenty of people who wrote to them, (Rodger W Gordon) among others and not one was printed. Thank goodness for the internet, You could find plenty of apposing views from all over the world. I have been getting S$T since 1977 and I almost cancelled my subscription over it. Thanks, I feel much better now.

#4 azure1961p

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 05:17 PM

I think they would have printed Gordon's opinions and others if they were at all plausible enough or compelling . I ve never seen a peculiar bias coming out of Sky that served to unseat or sidestep the better scientific views or opinions presented. I look forward to Woods article.

Pete

#5 A6Q6

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 05:37 PM

From Chris Lord: "Rodger W. Gordon has been an amateur astronomer for over 50 years. Since 1962 he has written over 300 articles that have been variously published in Review of Popular Astronomy, Star and Sky, Sky and Telescope, The Astronomical League Reflector, Zeiss Historica, the Practical Observer, the Amateur Telescope Maker's Journal, & ATM Journal, the LVAAS Observer, and the 1983 Yearbook of Astronomy. During his astronomical career Rodger "The Eyepiece King" Gordon, has owned over 70 telescopes, 350 - 400 eyepieces, 60 binocular, 50+ colour filters, 15 Barlows and numerous other optics. He has written over 80% of the catalogue descriptions for the Vernonscope auctions. Vernonscope being the world's largest scientific instrument auction house. He has worked for Edmund Scientific, Vernoscope, Optical Techniques, and as an occasional consultant to the Questar Corps. In 1962 Rodger W. Gordon was an independent co-discoverer of the 4 - 5 day rotation of Venus' upper atmosphere (see Sky & Telescope June 1999, p59). He is the author of a major article on resolution and contrast, referenced in Price's "The Planet Observer's Handbook" and Dobbins, Capen and Parker's "Introduction to Observing and Photographing the Solar System." When observing he uses mostly refractors and Maksutovs, and constantly experiments with various optical accessories. He is quite rightly regarded as an expert on astronomical eyepieces, their design and useage. He is working on a -- soon to be published -- book about telescope eyepieces. He divides his time between astronomy, birding, long walks and writing exceedingly long letters."

#6 azure1961p

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 07:52 PM

Well yes and very nice and no news to me.


If he would have had a compelling enough countering point Im sure Sky would have run it. Gordon is a good observer and I agree with a lot of his opinions and Im a fan of his writings often, but he's also wrong and fallible at times.



Pete

#7 A6Q6

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 08:24 PM

"he's also wrong and fallible at times." As are we all, but he was just one example of what was on the web at that time presenting a different view of that S&T article.

#8 photonovore

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 10:52 AM

So what's the fuss all about? I haven't read the S&T article, but Wood's recent posts about this topic on LPOD (August 25th & Oct 29th) both seem decidedly non-committal one way or the other...iow, "maybe, maybe not". Personally, i'd be pretty skeptical re; any anomalous observations of *colored* lunar phenomenon while using any achromatic telescope, but that's just me. However, i could see a real monochrome event *appearing* colored when viewed through an achromat... :shrug:

#9 Rick Woods

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:09 PM

The thrust of the article is that the 1963 event is the most credible example of TLP sightings, and was documented extremely well by O'Connell and Cook in their JBAA paper. In addition, Greenacre and Barr were experienced professionals who had been using the Lowell refractor for two years mapping the Moon. They knew all about atmospheric dispersion, chromatic aberration, etc. They were not new, and were long-time skeptics of TLPs to boot. And, several other experienced people also saw the event.

Rodger Gordon is, as noted, an expert on optical issues, and he doubts very much that these men were fooled by chromatic aberration. Wood sticks to his opinion that it was an illusion, but at least concedes that he could be wrong.

#10 A6Q6

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:51 PM

"So what's the fuss all about? I haven't read the S&T article." Its a good article, my question is, will S&T allow an apposing study to be printed in the next issue? Or at lest print one apposing view in the letters section.

#11 photonovore

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 09:20 PM

Thanks Rick, i'll have to give it a read next time i'm at the supermarket... ;)

#12 Rick Woods

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 11:02 AM

Actually, Wood's article is more or less just a commentary on the O'Connell and Cook paper; that's really the one that bears reading. It's a free download.

#13 Rick Woods

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 11:04 AM

"So what's the fuss all about? I haven't read the S&T article." Its a good article, my question is, will S&T allow an apposing study to be printed in the next issue? Or at lest print one apposing view in the letters section.


Sure they will, if someone submits a good one. Rodger Gordon has had several things published there that are contrary to astronomical dogma.

#14 Chuck Hards

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:36 PM

Wasn't Gordon the owner and publisher of TPO?

#15 Rick Woods

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:05 PM

TPO...?

#16 Chuck Hards

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:17 PM

The Practical Observer

#17 A6Q6

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:26 PM

"Wasn't Gordon the owner and publisher of TPO? "The Practical Observer". No I don't think so. That was in Ky he is in Pa.

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#18 A6Q6

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:27 PM

2

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#19 A6Q6

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:28 PM

Rodger W Gordon

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#20 azure1961p

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 02:13 PM

Ah yes - the 90mm Maksutov he resolved Enckes division with.


You do know about that right? Amazing observer indeed.

As far as Olympus Mons is concerned actually I don't see the hoopla here - a lot of amateurs have seen it.


Pete

#21 Rick Woods

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:23 PM

Pete,

You're setting yourself up for some embarrassment when you start being condescending and flippant about Rodger Gordon and his observational abilities. As for his book, I recommend reading it before commenting.

#22 photonovore

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:37 PM

Is Roger Gordon still around? last letter I got from him was back in 'o6... (geez, i have been so outta touch lately... :/ )

#23 azure1961p

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:48 PM

Rick,

There's no risk of embarrassment here as I havent stated anythimg false or untrue. Some if his claims are sensible - indeed his thoughts on eyepieces and magnification are spot on. Still others are a reach at best and at least one example utterly false and baseless. How or why Mr. Bruce decided to turn a thread about TLPs into a Roger Gordon Adoration procession is beyond me . Gordon's thoughts on Mellish fare not a whole lot better than his Questar claim. Some things he gets right, others not at all. I can't be embarrassed for something Im not wrong about .

As for his book - Ive read too much information elsewhere that's too damning of Mellish to make his book seem like anything but an exercise in self indulgent lawyering on Gordon's part.



Pete

#24 Rick Woods

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:54 AM

Is Roger Gordon still around? last letter I got from him was back in 'o6... (geez, i have been so outta touch lately... :/ )


Very much so!

#25 Rick Woods

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:56 AM

Rick,

There's no risk of embarrassment here as I havent stated anythimg false or untrue. Some if his claims are sensible - indeed his thoughts on eyepieces and magnification are spot on. Still others are a reach at best and at least one example utterly false and baseless. How or why Mr. Bruce decided to turn a thread about TLPs into a Roger Gordon Adoration procession is beyond me . Gordon's thoughts on Mellish fare not a whole lot better than his Questar claim. Some things he gets right, others not at all. I can't be embarrassed for something Im not wrong about .

As for his book - Ive read too much information elsewhere that's too damning of Mellish to make his book seem like anything but an exercise in self indulgent lawyering on Gordon's part.



Pete


Just trying to help, Pete.






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