Jump to content


Photo

AT-111EDT alternative?

  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

#1 NHRob

NHRob

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4896
  • Joined: 27 Aug 2004
  • Loc: New Hampshire

Posted 14 November 2013 - 07:34 AM

Since the AT111EDT is unavailable at this time, is there something comparable that is available … 105-111mm cost effective triplet or quality doublet?

Rob

#2 PowellAstro

PowellAstro

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Joined: 14 Oct 2009
  • Loc: Tennessee

Posted 14 November 2013 - 08:30 AM

This could be an option.

WO 110mm

#3 rockethead26

rockethead26

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3187
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2009
  • Loc: Arizona, USA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 09:06 AM

Rob,

You seem to be in analysis paralysis. :crazy:

Never been there myself, of course. :grin:

Your last thread

You've had a lot of good recommendations. Pick one that's within your budget and buy it. I'm sure it will be a fine scope. :jump:

Good luck!

#4 Mark Costello

Mark Costello

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3088
  • Joined: 08 Mar 2005
  • Loc: Matthews, NC, USA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 09:32 AM

Orion's rolled out a 110mmF6 Eon. Also, SV may still be selling their 110mmF7 doublet.

#5 NHRob

NHRob

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4896
  • Joined: 27 Aug 2004
  • Loc: New Hampshire

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:08 AM

Jim,
You got that right! :question:


Rob,

You seem to be in analysis paralysis. :crazy:

Never been there myself, of course. :grin:

Your last thread

You've had a lot of good recommendations. Pick one that's within your budget and buy it. I'm sure it will be a fine scope. :jump:

Good luck!



#6 NHRob

NHRob

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4896
  • Joined: 27 Aug 2004
  • Loc: New Hampshire

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:14 AM

Hi Mark,
Thanks. They both are FPL-51 doublets which, I've read, don't do that well for higher powers (CA). I'll consider either FPL-53 doublets or maybe triplts.


Orion's rolled out a 110mmF6 Eon. Also, SV may still be selling their 110mmF7 doublet.



#7 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 43422
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:46 AM

Hi Mark,
Thanks. They both are FPL-51 doublets which, I've read, don't do that well for higher powers (CA). I'll consider either FPL-53 doublets or maybe triplts.


Orion's rolled out a 110mmF6 Eon. Also, SV may still be selling their 110mmF7 doublet.


Rob:

I had an early AT-111 on loan for a while, very nice scope with excellent color correction. If you want a scope comparable to the Astro-Tech AT-111EDT, I think you definitely need a triplet, I don't think anyone makes an 111mm F/7 FPL-53 doublet, probably with good reason, and as you say, the FPL-51 doublets are, by comparison, not well corrected for false color.

Jon

#8 jrbarnett

jrbarnett

    Eyepiece Hooligan

  • *****
  • Posts: 19818
  • Joined: 28 Feb 2006
  • Loc: Petaluma, CA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:09 AM

That WO scope linked earlier in the thread is close.

But personally for visual as an "only" scope, I'd rather have a 120mm FPL-53 doublet I think. The one I like is this one from Telescope Service in Germany:

http://www.teleskop-...S-120-900mm-...

Synta optics in a Long Perng tube assembly (much like the old EON and Equinox lines). TS also rebrands triplets of various apertures from various Chinese and Taiwanese manufacturers. As an American you don't pay VAT (deduct 19% of the price). Shipping, though, might be costly. But if you want to image with it, then look at some of their triplets. On average they are equivalent in price to or cheaper than other rebranders peddling the same scopes.

I'm also still very partial to the Explore Scientific 127ED. It's a really good deal all around. The AT111EDT is a nice scope, but has many equally desirable alternatives.

Regards,

Jim

#9 BWAZ

BWAZ

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2005
  • Loc: CA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:09 PM

I agree the TS120ED (same as the long gone WO 120ED) is a good candidate, but IIRC, the deliver price to this continent is around $2100+ which IMHO is not a good deal compared to the Skywather 120ED currently on sale. What you gain from the TS version is the nice build quality for sure and a sliding dew shield. But The SW 120ED is lighter and can be upgraded with a FT or moonlite focuser. If it were my money, I'll just go with the SW 120ED with a FT focuser.

#10 BWAZ

BWAZ

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2005
  • Loc: CA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:14 PM

Another candidate is the Meade 6000 115ED triplet made by Kunming United Optics. If you could find it less than $1500 on the used market, it would be a good buy. Stellarvue used to sell those at a bit higher price actually and cleaned them out at $1695. The build quality is decent. I owned its cousin that SV is cleaning out again, the SV115T. The long gone SV115ED (or Meade 115ED) has essentially the same tube as the SV115T which is nice.

#11 jrbarnett

jrbarnett

    Eyepiece Hooligan

  • *****
  • Posts: 19818
  • Joined: 28 Feb 2006
  • Loc: Petaluma, CA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:20 PM

$1852 in dollars at current exchange rates with VAT removed, and then shipping would have to be added. APM marks them up when they sell them to Americans so go direct with TS. I suspect shipping and insurance via DHL from Germany to the US will be considerably less than $250. I've had scopes shipped from Japan many times for much less than that.

And while you can fix the focuser on the Sky Watcher version, you can't cost effectively fix the penguin paint job nor the fixed dew shade. For a main, or only, scope mechanical build quality and features count. If the stock 3" focuser didn't suit (it's pretty good) you could just as easily add a Moonlite or FT to the TS scope.

As for used scopes, he might as well get a used AT111EDT if that's what he really wants. The Meade branded Kunmings are overpriced IMO. You can get the same scopes for less under other brands, new, for what is asked for used Meades.

Also as a more general proposition, why would anyone pay $2k for a Meade/Kunming 115mm CDGM HFK-61 triplet when you can get a larger Explore/JOC 127mm Hoya FCD1 triplet for $400 less? If the price of the TS scope is too high (likely around $2k with shipping), and I wanted a new scope, then I'd probably go for the ES 127ED.

Regards,

Jim

#12 Kunama

Kunama

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 744
  • Joined: 22 Oct 2012

Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:38 PM

Which scope do you really want Rob? I suggest you wait for the one you really want to become available rather than wasting money on the upgrading merry-go-round.
You'll kick yourself if you buy a new scope and the next day someone advertises that mint condition Lomo you really lust after. This nearly happened to me, I was just about to buy a WO132 when a mint Tak TSA120 was advertised .......

#13 BWAZ

BWAZ

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2005
  • Loc: CA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:49 PM

When Meade first announced the Meade 127 triplet in 2006, I was indeed intrigued however it never made to the market in the US. I had high hope for the Meade/ES 127ED but I was somewhat disappointed when I was finally able to handle the scope in person. The paint job is IMHO subpar, the coating is too bright and the focuser is too coarse. The simple SW/Orion single speed CF focuser is actually better in this regard. Yes, the Meade 115ED is definitely overpriced and the 127ED essential version is IMHO a good deal by comparison. But I guess OP may find the 127ED a bit too long and big to handle even if it's not that heavy. In fact, I guess the 115ED may be too big for his need too.

As for the SW 120ED, I don't find the fixed dew shield a problem for my need but it's YMMV. If transportation to the dark site is often needed, the EON/TS 120ED is a better buy.

As a side node, I'm quite disappointed to find out Orion chose the LongPerng 110ED as its new EON scope. I'm not saying the 110ED is bad but it's for sure not in the same league as the 120ED.

#14 jrbarnett

jrbarnett

    Eyepiece Hooligan

  • *****
  • Posts: 19818
  • Joined: 28 Feb 2006
  • Loc: Petaluma, CA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:01 PM

Yep, I like that new 110ED from Orion too. But I suspect that only the OTA is Long Perng. The optics at f/5.95 appear to be the same as in the old WO 110ED. WO uses optics from Taiwanese producer Baso rather than Synta/Long Perng, though they do often use tube assembly bits from Long Perng.

Regards,

Jim

#15 rockethead26

rockethead26

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3187
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2009
  • Loc: Arizona, USA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:01 PM

If I were in the market again for a scope like the EON 120 ED that I own, I would, if no EONs were available used, opt for the TS 120ED that Jim Barnett recommended. It's about $500 higher than the EON when I bought it, but I have never been a fan of the SkyWatcher 120 ED with the black and white paint job, and the lack of a sliding dew shade makes it harder to transport.

I opted for a doublet because it was strictly for visual and has faster cool-down than a triplet, about 2-3 times faster. Since you live in the NE, evening temps can plummet on clear, cool nights and it is definitely worth a consideration.

From my own personal experience and that of many others, the FPL-53/BK-7 glass combo doublet is an outstanding performer.

Good luck!

#16 KevH

KevH

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 334
  • Joined: 08 Mar 2010
  • Loc: Maine

Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:56 PM


As for used scopes, he might as well get a used AT111EDT if that's what he really wants. The Meade branded Kunmings are overpriced IMO. You can get the same scopes for less under other brands, new, for what is asked for used Meades.

Regards,

Jim


Where are the Kunming triplets available new cheaper than used Meade branded scopes?

#17 BWAZ

BWAZ

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2005
  • Loc: CA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:04 PM



As for used scopes, he might as well get a used AT111EDT if that's what he really wants. The Meade branded Kunmings are overpriced IMO. You can get the same scopes for less under other brands, new, for what is asked for used Meades.

Regards,

Jim


Where are the Kunming triplets available new cheaper than used Meade branded scopes?


For example:

Levenhuk ED triplet

Note: the 120ED linked above apparently should be the 102ED triplet cause all the four models are produced by Kunming United Optics. As for the 120ED, my next post shows what it looks like.

#18 BWAZ

BWAZ

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2005
  • Loc: CA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:07 PM

BTW, it seems Levenhuk also carries the LongPerng 120ED as well:

Levenhuk 120ED

If one is looking for a new EON 120ED which is no longer available from Orion, the above version is the closest alternative.

#19 jrbarnett

jrbarnett

    Eyepiece Hooligan

  • *****
  • Posts: 19818
  • Joined: 28 Feb 2006
  • Loc: Petaluma, CA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:44 PM

http://www.teleskop-...S-PHOTOLINE-...

http://www.teleskop-...S-PHOTOLINE-...

There are others, too, if you look around a bit.

Regards,

Jim

#20 jrbarnett

jrbarnett

    Eyepiece Hooligan

  • *****
  • Posts: 19818
  • Joined: 28 Feb 2006
  • Loc: Petaluma, CA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:47 PM

That's a great find. It pays to look around to see which rebranders carry the optics you want. That Levenhuk is basically the EON/Equinox without the chrome trim rings (all black instead). It is a steal at that price.

Regards,

Jim

#21 hfjacinto

hfjacinto

    I think he's got it!

  • *****
  • Posts: 11803
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2009
  • Loc: Land of clouds and LP

Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:51 PM

The Levenhuk doesn't say FLP53 and Schott glass, not saying it doesn't have them, but a little concern.

#22 rockethead26

rockethead26

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3187
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2009
  • Loc: Arizona, USA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:22 PM

The Levenhuk doesn't say FLP53 and Schott glass, not saying it doesn't have them, but a little concern.


Interesting, I haven't seen S-NBM51 glass mated to FLP53 before.

#23 jrbarnett

jrbarnett

    Eyepiece Hooligan

  • *****
  • Posts: 19818
  • Joined: 28 Feb 2006
  • Loc: Petaluma, CA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:31 PM

Sure it does:

http://www.levenhuk....ouplet-ed/#more

"Optics material S-FPL53 ED + S-NBM51 glass"

Both Ohara glasses (no Schott) but much more information about glass types than Orion or Sky Watcher provides. Schott is a brand. Schott makes hundreds of different optical glasses. The Levenhuk, on the other hand, tells you both brand and catalog number for each element. That's a very good mate for FPL-53, and a very expensive glass costing as much as FPL-51. The Schott equivalent would be N-KZFS4. Maybe that's what Synta was using for the Sky Watcher and Orion scopes, but maybe it wasn't. It might have been a cheaper, less optimal Schott branded glass type. We don't know because unlike Levenhuk, Orion and Sky Watcher elected not to share full glass type information and instead to simply "marketeer" meaninglessly with a brand name alone. :shrug:

It's moot anyway as the Levenhuk model does not appear to be available for ordering. Too bad, too, because it would be a much better deal than the on-sale price for the 120ED Pro. That pretty much leaves TS if you want an EON-like Long Perng tube assembly. Bummer.

Regards,

Jim

#24 rockethead26

rockethead26

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3187
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2009
  • Loc: Arizona, USA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:51 PM

Jim,

I thought I had read somewhere that the mating element on these Synta ED scopes was Schott BK-7. Someone's incorrect guess?

#25 PowellAstro

PowellAstro

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Joined: 14 Oct 2009
  • Loc: Tennessee

Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:33 PM


The Skywatcher rep said:


The ProED 100 is 36" long and weighs about 10 pounds. The optics consist of two elements. The front element is Schott BK-7 and the rear element is FPL-53 ED glass. The dew shield removable by unthreading it from the lens cell.








Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics