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WEird clutch issue?

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#1 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:06 PM

So I have a wedge I made and tried it out. I mounted the scope (a 6SE I bought in april) to see if the holes I drilled in the plate were right and if everything mounted right. as well as make sure the hardware is right sized. . .so I went to show a friend of mine the sun this morning. and first time I fired it up, off the wedge mind you the thing ran jittery and as if the clutch was grabbing and not. . . It did this while slewing to the alignment point. Is this normal? I don't understand what might be wrong if a wedge is a wedge is a wedge. :question:

#2 maugi88

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:13 PM

post pics

#3 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:23 PM

of it slewing? It was on the regular tripod mount when I was looking at the sun. It was running as if in two speeds kinda jittery.

#4 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:24 PM

and by that I mean I mounted it once, then took it off. . I wanted to make sure everything lined up right and when I went to use it not on a wedge it acted weird. . .it worked just fine every other time I used it.

#5 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:30 PM

here I'll post the wedge. . . Don't mind the house I'm working on it and moving to sell it. . .so its kinda a mess. . .

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#6 maugi88

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:52 PM

here I'll post the wedge. . . Don't mind the house I'm working on it and moving to sell it. . .so its kinda a mess. . .


OMG your house is a disaster!

I kid :grin:

#7 maugi88

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:04 PM

I wanted pics to see if there were obstructions at all. Doesn't look like it. Are you running this with batteries? If so I would say that is the problem. Use a tank or ac adapter to give the motors more juice. These mounts, are from what I've read, notorious for needing proper juice or they just don't work right.

I have an 8 but I have not run it on a wedge or batteries.

You know, after looking at your setup, you may be getting some flexure from the plate you have under the wedge. (the horizontal one) It looks to be sagging a bit. If this gets bouncing I am sure it would cause the motors to run jittery. I would run some square tubing on the bottom side the long way. You may need longer bolts to mount to the tripod but, that should stiffen things up.

So, more power, stiffer plate.

I am not an expert but that's what I see.

#8 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:08 PM

no I took it off the wedge, removed the wedge, didn't run it on the wedge. Mounted it back on tripod to solar observe and it acted like it would go slow then fast and intermittent. I ran it on the power cable from outside outlet. I haven't had it a year yet and if something is going wrong I wanted to make sure I didn't destroy anything and see if it was a warranty related thing. I don't imagine the wedge being an unusual strain?

I haven't tweaked or torqued it at all, I am very careful with the equipment and how I handle it. nothing has been doped at all it was the first time it acted odd. I wanted to make sure I wasn't straining or messing it up. On a side note it was really cold here in the high desert.

#9 Greyhaven

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:12 PM

Did you use the original mounting bolts to attach base to the wedge? The thickness of the wedge material seems much thinner than the original mount there allowing the bolts penetrate the base further this could have caused the bolts to contact the gear inside the base and caused misalignment or even damage Just something to investigate, the nexstar 5i mounting bolts have snap rings on the bolts to keep the bolts from being threaded to deeply into the base plus the thicker mount material.
Be Well
Grey

#10 maugi88

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:14 PM

The last time I used my 8se it was 8f outside. Although, as you said yours ran well before.

You say it is doing this even on the tripod? No wedge?

#11 maugi88

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:15 PM

Did you use the original mounting bolts to attach base to the wedge? The thickness of the wedge material seems much thinner than the original mount there allowing the bolts penetrate the base further this could have caused the bolts to contact the gear inside the base and caused misalignment or even damage Just something to investigate, the nexstar 5i mounting bolts have snap rings on the bolts to keep the bolts from being threaded to deeply into the base plus the thicker mount material.
Be Well
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Oh I hope not.

#12 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:19 PM

I wanted pics to see if there were obstructions at all. Doesn't look like it. Are you running this with batteries? If so I would say that is the problem. Use a tank or ac adapter to give the motors more juice. These mounts, are from what I've read, notorious for needing proper juice or they just don't work right.

I have an 8 but I have not run it on a wedge or batteries.

You know, after looking at your setup, you may be getting some flexure from the plate you have under the wedge. (the horizontal one) It looks to be sagging a bit. If this gets bouncing I am sure it would cause the motors to run jittery. I would run some square tubing on the bottom side the long way. You may need longer bolts to mount to the tripod but, that should stiffen things up.

So, more power, stiffer plate.

I am not an expert but that's what I see.


I haven't actually run it on the wedge yet.

The main bottom plate is 1/8th inch steel, and the angled is 1/16 inch the bolts are just long enough I use lock washers. It's pretty stout. (I made it at work)

The thing is I took it of and put it back on the tripod, this was the first time it acted odd. . trying to address every issue I could.

#13 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:21 PM

You say it is doing this even on the tripod? No wedge?


BINGO I never ran it on the wedge. I just made it the other day, mounted to see if it worked before I took it out tonight. Went to observe sun this morning, mount it up minus wedge, and it act as like the clutch is kinda sticking or maybe gears binging I dunno. But it happens when you slew it to align. So I stopped because I don't want to mess it up. Is this normal? I can't imagine a wedge causing clutch or gear problems I men it is pretty basic in function.

#14 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:25 PM

Did you use the original mounting bolts to attach base to the wedge? The thickness of the wedge material seems much thinner than the original mount there allowing the bolts penetrate the base further this could have caused the bolts to contact the gear inside the base and caused misalignment or even damage Just something to investigate, the nexstar 5i mounting bolts have snap rings on the bolts to keep the bolts from being threaded to deeply into the base plus the thicker mount material.
Be Well
Grey


On the length of the mounting bolts they were a little long, but I never felt any resistance until snug. Does it not stop when running them up into it? I can add more washers to make sure I don't hit anything. I jus measured them the ones mounting the scope to the angle piece is 1 inch. I assume that's too long? I used a washer and lock washer for thickness.

#15 maugi88

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:27 PM

Well I am not sure what your problem is.

Hopefully some one can help.

I would definitely beef up the wedge though. 1/8" isn't much.

#16 maugi88

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:31 PM

Did you use the original mounting bolts to attach base to the wedge? The thickness of the wedge material seems much thinner than the original mount there allowing the bolts penetrate the base further this could have caused the bolts to contact the gear inside the base and caused misalignment or even damage Just something to investigate, the nexstar 5i mounting bolts have snap rings on the bolts to keep the bolts from being threaded to deeply into the base plus the thicker mount material.
Be Well
Grey


On the length of the mounting bolts they were a little long, but I never felt any resistance until snug. Does it not stop when running them up into it? I can add more washers to make sure I don't hit anything. I jus measured them the ones mounting the scope to the angle piece is 1 inch. I assume that's too long? I used a washer and lock washer for thickness.


If he is right you ,may have pushed the gears in the base out of perfect contact. I hope not because you will have to open it to fix that.

#17 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:32 PM

I looked up in the holes where the bolts would go. I can run it around to see if I might have hit one. this might be the cause, is there a way to look at the gears to make sure I didn't mess one up? I'll add more washers to make sure I don't hit anything. seen with out the scope attached the drive is making an odd sound. . not like normal sound I don't know how to describe it.

Is it possible to see the gears of I drive it all the way around?

#18 Greyhaven

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:35 PM

Just inserting and tightening the bolts to check things out on the wedge would be enough to force the large gear out of alignment even if the mount was not turned on. The problems you describe while using the mount off of the wedge makes me think that the bolts put pressure on the large gear in the base. You'll have to disassemble the base to check this out. I hope nothing was bent but the gear is thin and is held in place by a large nut and could easily have been bent.
Hope this did not occur.
Be Well
Grey

#19 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:36 PM

that hard to check?

#20 maugi88

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:45 PM

You can probably handle it. The scope is still under warranty would be my concern.

Greyhaven can talk you thru it I am sure.

#21 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:53 PM

well I opened it up. . the gear inside is held on by three screws. the only thing that looks odd is the drive gear. . it has a set screw inside it that doesn't look deep enough. . main gear looks fine and doesn't feel bent or appear bent. I ran the base around under power it doesn't bind up and change speeds in certain spots it does it intermittently with no real patter. . I guess that's the way to describe it its normal slew speed then slows down then speeds up. . .

#22 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:57 PM

oh you know what I went to get an Allen wrench the set screw on the drive gear was gone. . .well from the time I went and looked to the time I set it down to get the Allen wrench. That's covered under warranty yeah? I don't know if it ground on the drive gear teeth. . . How is celestron when it comes to warranty work? Did I void it by opening it?

#23 Greyhaven

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:57 PM

I don't have a 6SE I'm an old dude with my beloved 5i here is a link to a page that discusses taking the older style base apart I think they may be similar http://www.nexstarsi.../N58Azimuth.htm
Be Well
Grey

#24 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:59 PM

OMG the set screw marks are all over the large gear it ate teeth!

#25 Tyranthrax

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 11:01 PM

OMG I'm gonna cry






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