Jump to content


Photo

Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!!

  • Please log in to reply
87 replies to this topic

#1 Eddgie

Eddgie

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12675
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2006

Posted 17 December 2013 - 12:28 PM

Posted this before, but if you have not acted, you are missing one of the greatest shows on earth.

Have been doing a lot of white light solar. Astrozap Baader Film, SV110ED, Maxbright Mirror, 1.25x GPC, Mark V, and Hyperion zOOms.

Freaking amazing. The sun is putting on a really grand show.

As I mentioned in earlier posts, I have done solar white light on and off over the years, but never felt like I got a good result.

The first time I turned the C5 towards the sun with a binoviewer, the improvment was easily visible. I started to see more structure in sunspots, and faclua looked far more pronounced.

And as I progressed up to the 100mm f/9 achromat (proof of concept for seeing is I like using a small refractor for binoviewing, and Oh it is fantastic by the say) I saw more detail, and going to the 110ED scope was another big move (I could reallly tell the chromatic aberration on the achromat was badly damaging contrast).

And the level of detail I am getting now is nothing short of titanic! The amount of structure even inside of a sunspot surprised me. Light islands in big sunspots are now common, and the structure in the penumbra is endless.

Granulation is easy and vast, and facula extend far in fromt he limb in the binoviewers... Much further than I think I could see in Mono-vision, and the detail of the Facula is far more complex than I used to realize.

And if you already have a binoviewer and a 4" to 5" ED or APO, Baader film filters are soooooo cheap that if you have not tried this, I am almost begging you do do so.

The binoviewers were the key, I am convinced. I simply could never resolve the detail present in the past.

And now, I feel like I am routinely seeing more detail in white light than most of the solar CCD images I look at. This is the opposite of normal planetary, were I often struggle to match the CCD. Here, I feel like I am leaving the CCD images in the dust. The shear volume of detail makes it impossible to exaust the sun in an hour session. I feel like I am only just scratching the surface.

And as you watch a an active region, you can see the changes from day to day as the regions develop, transform, and then rotate out of sight or simply start to morph back into a quiet state.

What a fantastic spectacle. The sun with the binoviewers has become one of my favorite targets. I am now doing more white light solar than DSO!!!

Tips.. Again, 4" to 5" ED or APO (achromat works, but result is much better with one of these types).

Baader Solar Film. I know there are some that say a high quality glass filter is as good. Maybe. Maybe not. On the solar forum, I was told by many that the Baader would be better, and while I often am skeptical of claims of a big improvement, here I got one. Your mileage may vary.

Keep the target region in the dead center of the field. This is my advice for any kind of high resolution observng. Most eyepecies are only diffraction limited over a small area. If you want the most detail, keep the AR you are studying at the exact center of the field.

I recommed 100X to 120x. Daytime seeing will rarely allow you to see a steady image, and even at this power, 90% of the time, seeing will be holding you back.

But you are living for those brief 10 second periods every 4 or 5 minutes where seeing improves enough that 100x works.

Much of the structure in the ubra and especially the penumbra needs 100x to be big enough to resolve angularly. The view might be sharpter at 50x, but trust me, you are missing all of the really good stuff....

If you have binoviewers and a 4" to 5" ED or APO, and you have not done solar white light, don't miss this fantastic time when the sunspot activity is coveing the solar disk with an incredible amount of fascinating detail!

Off axis for an SCT might work, but I had problems with the image becoming unstable after 20 minutes using full aperture. The tube did not feel warm or anything, but side by side with the 110ED, even though the EdgeHD 8" started out delieveing slightly more detail, after 20 minutes, it was clear to me that there was some kind of thermal issue. There were simply no moments of good seeing. The 110ED walked away.

Off apeture might (or might not) fix it if it were some kind of thermal issue, but then you are limited to the smaller aperture. If you have an ED refractor, I would suggest it as a better choice.

#2 Messyone

Messyone

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 559
  • Joined: 02 May 2012
  • Loc: Down Under

Posted 17 December 2013 - 03:11 PM

Totally agree. I even made a dedicated solar dew shield for my ATM 6" frac. Just a shield with Baader film semi/permanently mounted in it.
More Sun that stars where I am.
Matt

#3 Eddgie

Eddgie

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12675
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2006

Posted 17 December 2013 - 04:12 PM

Yes, you can buy a square Baader film for $30 and make a decent cell from cardboard!

Anyone that has a 4" to 5" ED scope and a binoviewer that doesn't do this is simply missing out on a great show!

#4 A6Q6

A6Q6

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 796
  • Joined: 31 May 2011
  • Loc: Stroudsburg,Pa,U.S.A

Posted 17 December 2013 - 05:19 PM

I have been using a 30+ old year Solar Skreen filter by Roger Tuthill on my Quantum 6 and a stopped down 6"-5" Orion glass filter for my C5. Before I made the glass filter smaller it was worthless. The views are almost as good as the Solar Skreen, but I am hoping Santa will give me a Baader for My Q6 and C5 :fingerscrossed: And yes binoviewing is the only way to go. :grin:

#5 Moey

Moey

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 189
  • Joined: 23 Jan 2008

Posted 17 December 2013 - 05:58 PM

Fascinating report I must try this.

#6 Tak North

Tak North

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 609
  • Joined: 28 Nov 2007

Posted 18 December 2013 - 01:01 AM

Yep, try the Baader Herschel Wedge too. Simply AMAZING! I know some of the hardcore Ha guys will probably cringe, but I'll take my Tak FS 102 with the Wedge and BV's over my Coronado filter any day!

#7 aa6ww

aa6ww

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 936
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2011
  • Loc: Sacramento, Calif.

Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:57 AM

The Binoviewer adds contras to the visual effect, just like during night time observing. The differences with an H-alpha filter are just as pronounced. Filaments I can just barely make out with one eye, with my SM-90, look like snakes crawling along and around the surface of the sun with two eyes. Especially when using CeMax eyepieces which give you even more contras.
I have a Kendrix Baader film on my 180mm refractor. The effect with the binoviewer definitely shows more contras on the surface. I also have the same Baader film on my C14 with a full aperture Kendrix filter. There is so much surface attention, with and with out the binoviewer, that the surface looks like a boiling pot, With the Binoviewer, you get a 3D image of the sun sports and can see how they sink into the surface of the sun more than the surrounding areas.
One side note to this, is when using a Baader IR/UV filter, or even just a MV-1 filter, also increases the contras to the heavily granular surface.
The hard glass filters show none of this. Only the baader film shows this.


...Ralph

#8 mhilscher

mhilscher

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 128
  • Joined: 13 Jul 2011
  • Loc: Cologne, Germany

Posted 18 December 2013 - 04:00 AM

Thank you Eddgie, another great write-up

#9 hfjacinto

hfjacinto

    I think he's got it!

  • *****
  • Posts: 11810
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2009
  • Loc: Land of clouds and LP

Posted 18 December 2013 - 09:56 AM

Eddgie, its time for you to go to the next level.

HA and binoviewers.

Attached Files



#10 Jeff B

Jeff B

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
  • Joined: 30 Dec 2006

Posted 18 December 2013 - 09:56 AM

Yep, try the Baader Herschel Wedge too. Simply AMAZING! I know some of the hardcore Ha guys will probably cringe, but I'll take my Tak FS 102 with the Wedge and BV's over my Coronado filter any day!


A big plus one on that. :waytogo: :waytogo:

Using a quality wedge will improve the image over any film by a solid couple of notches. The difference is not subtle.

Now for my own bit of heresy, use a yellow filter, especially a deep yellow or even orange filter, on that humble achromat and be prepared to be shocked at how sharp the solar image will now be. And I really like the warmer color. Funny though the images turns slightly greenish to me if I stare long enough so I just take a break and look around to let the old rods & cones readjust.

Binoviewing is IMO, THE way to do solar.

And yeah Ed the sun has been wonderful to look at lately. It always blows peoples heads off when I say that you could safely drive the Earth/Moon system through one of those "small spots". Good read and thanks.

Jeff

#11 hfjacinto

hfjacinto

    I think he's got it!

  • *****
  • Posts: 11810
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2009
  • Loc: Land of clouds and LP

Posted 18 December 2013 - 09:59 AM

This is what you see (with Double Stacking)

Attached Files



#12 Eddgie

Eddgie

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12675
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2006

Posted 18 December 2013 - 10:06 AM

In fact, a Baader prism is on my short list to Santa!

#13 Eddgie

Eddgie

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12675
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2006

Posted 18 December 2013 - 10:14 AM

Oh, have been tempted.

The purpose of the post though was to encourage people that already have BVs and have not tried solar to do so given the very low price of a small square of Baader film (and even the Astrozap filer is pretty darned cheap).

I have been doing solar white light now only since spring, but the amount of detail I am seeing even in white light was far more than I ever realized.

Just want to encourage people to give it a shot.

I am though interested in Ha. The equipment price is of course holding me back, and I have to say that at this moment in time, I am enjoying white light so much that I am not feeling compelled to move.

There is this though... Santa's Elf has told me that there is something "Wonderful" and "A big surprise" that will be under the tree.

The Considering that I go out almost every day that I can to do solar these days, maybe she did some searching and discovered Ha telescopes.

That would indeed be a big surprise.

But I am loving white light, and again, after years of trying solar, never really enjoyed it... Until I binoviewed the sun. Was a real Wow! moment.

Maybe Ha is in the future even if Santa doesn't deliver though.

But everyone that is sitting there with a binoviewer and a 4" to 5" scope that has not tried solar needs to jump in.

The current cycle is putting on a great show, and no one should miss it. I could never have imagined that solar white light would be so good!

#14 Tak North

Tak North

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 609
  • Joined: 28 Nov 2007

Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:11 PM

In fact, a Baader prism is on my short list to Santa!


:waytogo: :waytogo: :waytogo: :jump:

#15 Paul G

Paul G

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5057
  • Joined: 08 May 2003
  • Loc: Freedonia

Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:15 PM

Maybe Ha is in the future even if Santa doesn't deliver though.


You'll be blown away.

#16 Tak North

Tak North

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 609
  • Joined: 28 Nov 2007

Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:16 PM

The differences with an H-alpha filter are just as pronounced. Filaments I can just barely make out with one eye, with my SM-90, look like snakes crawling along and around the surface of the sun with two eyes. Especially when using CeMax eyepieces which give you even more contras....Ralph


I've long suspected that this is probably the case. However, right now I "only" have a single stacked 60mm so the image is rather dim and low contrast to start with. Coupled with the fact that it's bright outside, and for me the Ha BV experience has always been somewhat underwhelming. The nice thing about the wedge is there is no shortage of light - you can change around the ND filters to get as much as you need!

A 90 mm Ha setup is definitely in my Long Range Plan though.

#17 Jeff B

Jeff B

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
  • Joined: 30 Dec 2006

Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:33 PM

This is what you see (with Double Stacking)


Ok, I've GOT to get me one of those double stacked HA thingies!

#18 Eddgie

Eddgie

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12675
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2006

Posted 18 December 2013 - 01:42 PM

Just a follow.

Long periods of almost perfect seeing today.

GASP!

120x in the 110ED and Mark Vs with GPC.

Better than CCD. Level of detail was through the roof!

Longer post on the Solar forum, but mostly just a big GASP at the level of detail.

Truly staggering.

And for the price of a sheet of solar film and 30 minutes of time to make an inexpensive cell from cardboard, everyone can enjoy this spectacular show!

Best ever solar day.

Before binoviewing, I just could not get that interested in the sun, but the Baader filter and the binoviewers were a radical step up.

Anyone that has a binoviewer and a 4" to 5" refractor that has not tried this needs to get off their behinds and give it a stab.

Freaking fantastic.

#19 R Botero

R Botero

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1239
  • Joined: 02 Jan 2009
  • Loc: Kent, England

Posted 18 December 2013 - 04:14 PM

Solar binoviewing with quality optics is simply amazing - good seeing helps too! White light, Ha, whatever, the joy of taking in the sun through both eyes is enormous :cool:
Thanks for the reports Eddgie!

#20 PJ Anway

PJ Anway

    Double-Star Observer

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 2641
  • Joined: 04 Jun 2003
  • Loc: North Coast

Posted 18 December 2013 - 07:05 PM

Since I first tried it, I have only viewed the sun through a binoviewer. Simply stunning and I'll never go back to "monoviewing" when it comes to the sun.

#21 Eddgie

Eddgie

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12675
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2006

Posted 18 December 2013 - 07:52 PM

It really is amazing. For years I would look at the sun once in a while, but it never really seemed all that great.

But with the binoviewers and the baadder film, the level of detail is insane!

And the recent activity is just begging us all to observe it!

Wonderful day today.

I have a Baader wedge on the gift list, and I think Santa is going to come through, so can't wait!

#22 TG

TG

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 1286
  • Joined: 02 Nov 2006
  • Loc: Latitude 47

Posted 19 December 2013 - 05:56 PM

Posted this before, but if you have not acted, you are missing one of the greatest shows on earth.

Have been doing a lot of white light solar. Astrozap Baader Film, SV110ED, Maxbright Mirror, 1.25x GPC, Mark V, and Hyperion zOOms.

Freaking amazing.


You mean like this? :grin:

Posted Image

#23 Pinbout

Pinbout

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 7776
  • Joined: 22 Feb 2010
  • Loc: nj

Posted 19 December 2013 - 07:10 PM

HA and binoviewers.



oh! i so want one! :help:

#24 Space Dragon

Space Dragon

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 99
  • Joined: 19 Feb 2012
  • Loc: Scotland UK

Posted 20 December 2013 - 04:18 PM

Posted this before, but if you have not acted, you are missing one of the greatest shows on earth.

Have been doing a lot of white light solar. Astrozap Baader Film, SV110ED, Maxbright Mirror, 1.25x GPC, Mark V, and Hyperion zOOms.

Freaking amazing.


You mean like this? :grin:

Posted Image


Great set up Tanveer.....must have taken you a while to save up your pocket money for that.....:-)

Seriously....I wish I'd got into observing when I was young....when my pupils dilated to about 10mm....great shot, good to see.

#25 aa6ww

aa6ww

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 936
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2011
  • Loc: Sacramento, Calif.

Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:14 AM

That's a really cute photo! She's even on a pink stool. It could win a photo contest its so cute!!

...Ralph


Posted this before, but if you have not acted, you are missing one of the greatest shows on earth.

Have been doing a lot of white light solar. Astrozap Baader Film, SV110ED, Maxbright Mirror, 1.25x GPC, Mark V, and Hyperion zOOms.

Freaking amazing.


You mean like this? :grin:

Posted Image








Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics