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Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!!

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#51 Bill Cowles

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 05:55 PM

You are correct, there is no problem with the OCS in front of the diagonal.

Bill

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#52 Daniel Guzas

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:47 AM

You are correct, there is no problem with the OCS in front of the diagonal.

Bill


Ahh just what I wanted to hear! Thanks!!! Now to save those precious $$ for a LS 60 Ha scope.. ;)

#53 Bill Cowles

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 12:15 PM

As good as the LS60 is, it's a whole different world, when used with bino's and once I get a front mounted solar filter for my ES 127, hope to enjoy white light with my bino's.

Bill

#54 Chopin

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 02:21 PM

I have to say, I finally tried it today (in the middle if it now, in fact). It's pretty darned amazing. AR1944 is just bursting with details right now, so if you ever wanted to see 3-D in white light now is the time to do it. Using an AT72ED/Mylar film, Maxbright/1.7x, Pentax XF12's. The disk is superb at 60x.

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#55 Eddgie

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 09:27 AM

Yes, that was my point. I have done solar white light over the years and never "warmed up" to it. The details just never seemed to be all that fine or compelling.

But the first time I put binoviewers on my C5, even with the glass filter, I was rewarded with the best views I had ever gotten.

And since then, I moved to a Baader film fiter, then a 100mm f/9 achro, then to the SV110ED, then to the Baader zOOms, and then to the Baader wedge.

Every change brought a small improvement (except the z00ms, but now I could not imaging solar using anything else because of the ability to quickly react to seeing which can change drastically from minute to minutes) and as amazed as I was when I started, I know feel like I am getting better resolution than most CCD pictures.

Opposite of planets, where the CCDs usually show more. Here, I feel like I am beating the CCD imsages every day.

#56 Paul G

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 10:19 AM

I have an 4.1" Orion Mylar film filter. Is this the same material as the Baader visual solar film ?


No. The Baader film is not mylar.

#57 Eddgie

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 10:31 AM

I am really looking forward to your result.

The more I do solar in white lighth (though with the wedge and Solar Continuum filter, it is "Green Light), the more amazed I become.

While Ha looks very appealing, there is far more in white light than people realize.

I can go an entire session and not exaust the detail even in a single sunspot (though in an hour session, I might only have 3 to 4 minutes total of good seeing).

There is just so much to see!

I used to think that the detail was mostly in the penumbra (and to be fair, this is where most of it is), but since have learned that there are often details within the umbra.

See my current post on the big filiment arc that I was able to see in AR1944. First time I have seen this particular kind of detail, but now of course I am curious to see if it is more common.

There are light bridges of course, but ther are also sometimes little light islands, and the boundry between the filiments extending into the umbra often has little "Rivers" that creep between them.

It is just spectacular, and it can actually change in the period of an hour!!!

Nothing as dynamic as the sun. Every day it is different and you can watch the sunspots evolve.

I am in fact dying to try it with my 6" APO!

#58 Qwickdraw

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 10:46 AM

I have an 4.1" Orion Mylar film filter. Is this the same material as the Baader visual solar film ?


No. The Baader film is not mylar.


Okay, perhaps my question should have been is the Orion film solar filters the same basic material as the Baader film?

#59 Paul G

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 03:31 PM

I have an 4.1" Orion Mylar film filter. Is this the same material as the Baader visual solar film ?


No. The Baader film is not mylar.


Okay, perhaps my question should have been is the Orion film solar filters the same basic material as the Baader film?


Ha! In the description of the 6" Orion film solar filter on Amazon it says, "Made with high-quality, streak-free and blister-free Baader Astro Solar Safety Film."

#60 EuropaWill

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 01:48 PM

I have to agree with Eddgie 100%.

Monoviewing through my AT106LE shows very little granulation and faculae, but binoviewing completely transforms the surface with granulation seen accross the entire surface and faculae showing up not only towards the sun's limb, but accross the entire surface. Sun spots show striations which look like magnetic patterns.

I have tried a yellow #8 and Orange #21, and despite the orange #21 producing a :shocked: moment (close to the color seen with HA but none of that type of detail), I haven't seen more detail with the color filters regarding granulation, sunspot detail or faculae. I prefer straight Baader Astrosolar Film.

I also echo Eddgie's strong recommendation with getting a HEAVY cell to put over your scope. I got my Baader Film already mounted in an aluminum cell from Agena. I believe it provides about 70mm clear aperture. That turns my FPL-53 triplet APO from f6.5 to approximately f10. Think about the color correction i'm getting at that aperture! Its very heavy and gives me an extra measure of confidence when using it. Also, before looking through the scope, always look through the filter towards the sun to look for pin holes that may have developed. If you see any pin holes, i would get new Baader film to replace it with.

#61 contrailmaker

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 09:04 PM

I have used a full aperture Orion glass filter with my 100ED for years and also the Baader film. The Orion image is not as bright as with the Baader film, which I actually prefer. As with the PST, once the eyes get adjusted to the level of illumination and the color, a lot more detail can be seen. Ultimately, I stopped using the Baader film because it deteriorated too fast for my taste. Your mileage may vary but I use my solar filters a lot. Either way you can not loose. Either filter will give great views of the current solar activity, especially if using a binoviewer.

CM

#62 Paul G

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 01:37 PM

I've been using the Baader film since it was first introduced in 1999 and there is no deterioration at all. Can you be more specific?

#63 Eddgie

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 01:54 PM

I am actually concerned that the film may deterriorate slightly as well, but I do not have a baseline.

When I bought my filter about 6 months ago, views were superb.

Lately though I have noticed that there is a lot of glow around the sun.

If I hold the filter up to the light, I cannot see any pinholes, but if I have the filter on the scope and look down into the diagonal without an eyepecie in place, there appear to be a very large number of ultra-tiny pinholes.

Not visible when just held up to the sun, but visible at the focal plane when no eyepeice is there.

Again, maybe the fitler was always this way. I don't know, becaues I never checked it when it was new.

But just before I got my wedge, I had indeed become a bit concerned that the performance had fallen off a tiny bit.

I would be interested in knowing why CN thinks his film has degraded as well.

An important edit.

I think the filter is still 100% safe to use. The image is not any brighter than it used to be I don't think, but it seems that the contrast has fallen off very slightly.

I have rinsed the fiter several times, and the filter sits in the sun for hours at a time, and I used it several times a week. So, it has indeed been exposed to UV a lot.

#64 Philip Levine

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:31 PM

Eddgie,
Oh yeah....I was able to enjoy some white light observing with a binoviewer this morning, even though the Sun was in and out of thin clouds, and even though the wind gusts impacted tripod/scope steadiness. Quite a collection of sunspots strung along the mid-section of the Sun, and some surface detail - given the less than optimal seeing conditions.
My setup: William Optics 80mm Zenithstar II refractor, Baader Herschel Wedge, Baader Maxbright binoviewer with 1.25x glasspath compensator, and TeleVue 2.5x Powermate. I used two sets of eyepieces for viewing: a pair of University Optics 18mm volcano top orthos, and then tried a pair of TeleVue 13mm Naglers.
(Note for George - I have to use the Powermate in order to achieve focus, without it I do not have enough back-focus)
I did enjoy viewing with the UO eyepieces more than with the Naglers, slightly less magnification made for crisper detail.
Eddgie, thanks for the recommendation to try binoviewers and white light Solar viewing. The conditions today were less than optimal, but still very enjoyable, looking forward to much more time viewing solar white light.
Phil

#65 Eddgie

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 04:17 PM

I am surprised that you have not done this before! I mean you had all the stuff!

But glad you gave it a try.

#66 Paul G

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 05:07 PM

Pinholes are nothing to worry about.

Still, I've been using mine for ~15 years without any issues. I don't wash mine with water, just puff a little air on it.

#67 contrailmaker

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 07:09 PM

Basically I just kept getting more pinholes. For a while I would cover them using a black sharpie but after a few months I decided there were enough holes and some were quite larger than pinhole size. Kind of like a flaking effect. This is all more than 6 years ago but in total I have gone through 3 different sheets of film, some of which I split with friends. Maybe the durability of the film has improved since then.

Now, when the solar activity is high I observe a lot so my filters got a lot of use. I am always very careful with my equipment but I decided to stick to the glass filter which delivers a very acceptable image IMHO and no deteriration so far.

CM

#68 Philip Levine

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 11:18 PM

I am surprised that you have not done this before! I mean you had all the stuff!

But glad you gave it a try.

Eddgie, an unexpected bonus with the Herschel wedge/binoviewer combo is I am able to use higher magnification than with h-alpha bf10-diagonal/binoviewer. The only eyepiece pair that seemed to work for h-alpha setup was a set of 26mm plossls.
I didn't think 26mm would show much sunspot detail, so never tried the binoviewer with the Herschel wedge until recently.
Hence the surprise I could use 18mm and 13mm pairs.
If the Sun cooperates, and gives us more interesting ss activity, I'll be a happy camper.
Phil

#69 Eddgie

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:29 AM

See, This is interesting to me because this is what I thought was happening to my own solar filter.

I used this thing a lot, and it would sit in the sun for hours.

And now, when I look thought he scope with no eyepeices, the entire filter is covered with microscopic holes!!!

To be fair, I did not try this when the filter was new, but I noticed that the sky was starting to appear bright around the suns limb, when before it seemed much blacker.

And I noticed that granulation seemed to be getting harder to see. At first I thought it might be seeing or other factors, but one day when I had the eyepiece out, I noticed this hughe amount of microscopie holes bleeding light on to the focal plane.

Again, filter does not seem dangerous to use. Is still about the same overall level of brightnes, but I could have sworn that the contrast was starting to degrade slightly.

Perhaps not my imagination after all..

#70 lbsgville

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 11:04 PM

Try using an orange filter on the bino corrector with the white light filter in place. I have the Zhumell 25X100 binoculars that have filter threads at the eyepiece. I got another set of filters to view the sun with my homemade white light filters and the orange is the best. Then I tried an orange filter with my binos on my dob with white light filter and love it.

#71 MAURITS

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:46 AM

My setup: William Optics 80mm Zenithstar II refractor, Baader Herschel Wedge, Baader Maxbright binoviewer with 1.25x glasspath compensator, and TeleVue 2.5x Powermate. I used two sets of eyepieces for viewing: a pair of University Optics 18mm volcano top orthos, and then tried a pair of TeleVue 13mm Naglers.

Phil


Can you use a binoviewer with a Herschel Wedge for white light observing?

I can't do this with the Lunt wedge .......

#72 R Botero

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 03:39 AM

Maurits
Yes, it can be done. Eddgie has a very recent thread in this forum. You may run out of back focus but with the right adapters and perhaps using a Barlow or GWK you can do it. I enjoy it very much.
Roberto

#73 MAURITS

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 04:50 AM

Thanks Roberto.

#74 Eddgie

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 10:16 AM

I am using the Baader wedge with my Mark Vs and it works great!

You need about the same in-travel as you would need for a 2" diagonal, and of course you can shorten this by about 25mm if you attach the binoviewer directly to the top using a Blue Fireball SCT to T2 adapter. (T-07).

But the view in white light with the wedge has been fantastic.

I am using the Solar Continuum filter. At first I did not like it, but the more I use it the more amazing it is.

The granulation shows up better with the SC filter than I have ever seen it, and because the granulation is so pronounced, facula stand out superbly.

Also, I think that lighy detail in the umbra of sunspots is sharper, but not quite as much. A bridge will appear a bit wider with the ND fiters stacked, but it will appear thinner and sharper with the SC. And the ends of the filimients I think are sharper in the SC.

I honestly don't know if this is becasue the contrast is better, or because you are screening out a lot of data (the SC is a very norrow band pass filter).

But the more I use the wedge with the SC filter, the more impressed I am. In fact, I have come to rather like the green color.. LOL

Of course there are other choices for wedge at a fraction of the cost, but I have to say that the Baader is a fisrt class peiec of gear.

I depbated getting Ha, but honestly there is so much amazing detail in white light that I can observe for an hour and not exaust it all...

I do not know how seeing affects Ha, btu it is my biggest obstacle. I have to observe for an hour to get maybe 2 or 3 minutes of high res views. Worth it though.

#75 Paul G

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:23 AM

Eddgie, If you like what you're seeing in white light, Ha will blow you away.






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