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Gemini II HC & System Issues

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#1 njensen593

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:41 AM

I am still having some persistence issues with my G2 system. I have had this system about a month now and have done a firmware update to the latest version as recommended. I did do the screen alignment at boot up. This G2 has exhibited several odd actions from first power up. The system hangs up a lot when I select a menu choice. When I select an action, the center of the a button goes dark and the edges are still green but nothing happens until I select another action on the screen and them go back to the original button and reselect it again. That generally works but not always. I may need to do this several times on some occasions. This is and has been a huge problem with this system and I spend a lot of time dealing with it and not viewing.



The other problem is with the alignment procedure. When I select an alignment star the system slews to that star, then I select the menu button (which sometimes shows "GOTO" now rather than Menu) takes you back to a menu for selection of objects, not the alignment screen menu. At this point what I have to do is go back to the main menu then to menu where you can select alignment or synchronize, select them both separately in two steps then reselect the star that I am aligning on and then it will sometimes go to the proper alignment menu so that I can select the align button and then I get all of the read outs for alignment. This happens about 90% of the time throughout the alignment process.



What I can say, is on the first G2 system that I have this did not happen anytime and that was with the HC Firmware V1.10 Build Sept 2013, MB Firmware LS.10 Aug 27 2013. I did update the firmware on this one too but have not tested it on the mount to date.



I hope I was somewhat clear on these issues in my explanations. Has anyone else seen these problems or any idea as to what is causing these two issues and how to fix them or is this something that Rene' and his team need to address?

Any help would be much appreciated.

#2 Hilmi

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:57 PM

OK for the first issue, most likely you need to open the screws on the back of the hand controller and then separate the cover then put back together but not as tight. What happens is that some units have had the foam around the screen press so hard on the screen that it interfered with the touch screen operation. You will likely need to re-calibrate touch screen after this procedure.

The second one is a bug, stick to the old alignment procedure. The last user who reported this bug to Rene was snapped back at and was told that this feature is an extra and was not in the original specs and so he should not complain if it doesnt work.

The Gemini II is a good system but it is only half baked. It works well enough if you are willing to tolerate the quirks but it is definitely not a mature mount controller and still needs lots of work.

#3 blueman

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:34 PM

IT is a real shame that after 2 years it is still in the Beta stage.
Blueman

#4 David Pavlich

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:40 PM

Hey Niel....glad you found your way here. Hilmi has been on the cutting edge of the ongoing saga of GII and its development. I hope that the gang here gets your mount working well.

David

#5 njensen593

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:44 PM

Great. Thank you for your information. For the screw removal and case realignment I am good with that part.
OK, on the second issue, which is the more of a pain than the other what do you mean by "stick to the old aligment procedure"? This part worked fine before I upgraded the firmware snd was not a problem. Do you mean revert back to an earlier version of the firmware? If so how abd ware do I go to download that data?
Thanks again,
Niel

#6 njensen593

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:53 PM

Hi David,
Thanks for the pointer to get here. That information kind of makes sense now. I guess I somewhat understand why I got some short answers from folks. As I said before the second issue is the bigger one and the more of a pain. I should have not upgraded my orginal G2 as it was working just fine and the little extras I got with the upgraded firmware may not have been worth the pain I have now!
NIel

#7 Hilmi

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 05:56 PM

The latest firmware fixes other bugs that were more annoying especially if you are imaging.

Basically the old procedure involves picking a star to go to from the bright star list. After going to that star you go to menu -> alignment -> align. Then pick another star from the bright star list.

So far, that bug is the most annoying bug that still remains on the Gemini II. The other bug involves the model sometimes getting corrupt.

#8 Raginar

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 09:50 AM

Interesting, I honestly haven't experienced any problems with my G2. It works really well for me... My guess would be the foam issue or the case being too tight. Are you still under warranty? Why don't you call Scott @ Losmandy and see if he'll replace it for you. You could have a defective screen too. Maybe they'll replace it for you? Or, maybe you can send it in and have them take a look at it. Given the weather, a week without your hand controller isn't a biggie! :)

I'm running the most recent firmware and I don't have any of the problems you're having. As far as I can tell it's the screen sticking; I think you'll find the alignment tool will work when you get the screen working. All the features work as advertised... or at least the ones I use.

And, come on over to the Yahoo! Group. It's not *too* vapid over there.

Chris

#9 njensen593

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:43 AM

Hilmi,
Thank you for the explanation of the HC operation. It seems to be a bit different from the earlier version that I have so I guess I will need to get use to this operation. I’ll try it out tonight if the weather holds and see what happens. I did take the screws out of the old unit yesterday and tried to get the cover off. The screws were not really tight but screen is really stuck to the top cover. I tried a bit to get things apart but was unsuccessful so I just put the screws back in and put it back on the G2 for now. I guess I can use some type of flat tool to separate the gasket from the cover to get it to come apart but don’t want to pull too much on the cover screen assembly. I’ll have another look at shortly but want to try it out after having taken the screws out and see if the relieves some pressure or not. I'll keep you posted.
Niel

#10 njensen593

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:08 AM

Chris,
I have two G2 units. I have an older G2 that I got from Losmandy in May of 2012. I had not updated the firmware in it until last week. It worked fine, no sticking, hanging up, odd menus, etc. I updated the HC and MC to the latest firmware then the issues began. The newer one, which I just received last month, displayed these some of these issues from day one with one firmware update or so back. So I updated both units to the latest firmware at the same time. What I have not done is tried out the newer G2 to see if it still has some issues or not but the older one does now. I did try to pull the HC cover partially off of the older unit yesterday and the screen is really stuck to the top cover. So I did not want to pull on it too much and just put it back together. I may be able to try it out tonight to see if that made any difference. As for the newer one I have not touched the cover but I have not tried it out after the update yet either. So what I might try tonight is as the older unit is on the mount, try it and see if pulling the cover made a difference then put the newer unit on and try it to see what happens with it. Hope this was understandable.
Thanks for your help.
Niel

#11 davebuechler

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:29 AM

Personally, I do not think your HC gasket is the problem, however if you do want to remove it here's a tip. Apply a little heat via hairdryer to the plastic cover around the screen. Be careful not to get the screen hot and you only want to slightly warm the plastic casing. Then start at one of the corners (top is better) pressing down on the screen lift the top HC casing until the gasket separates.
Be VERY careful that the screen dos not stay stuck to the top HC casing when you separate them as it may cause damage to the connections.

In fact to test if your gasket is too tight and causing your first issue, simply remove or loosen the screws and test it. You do not need to completely disassemble it and I suggest you don't unless absolutely necessary. If you find that this did not fix the issue, it is not the gasket.

Good luck

#12 njensen593

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:38 PM

Dave,
After messing with it yesterday I kind of don't want to dig in it if possible. I may be able to see tonight if backing off the screws helps. It's just kind of odd that all this seem to happen when I did the upgrades. At least on the older unit, but it seemed to be existing on the new unit from day one.
Thanks,
Niel

#13 davebuechler

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 07:50 PM

Hi Neil,

Yeah, I really don't think that is your problem and you really don't want to open it if you don't have to. I am not sure what causes you this issue. I have experienced a "slow" response time from HC buttons on rare occasion but nothing repeatable. I chalked it up to the cold….? You could test just the HC and the G2 to see if it is repeatable without it attached to the mount. Have you tried? You could also check to see if backing off the screws would relieve the pressure on the screen.

As far as the aligment bug. I must admit that I don't usually use the "PAA" "PAC" or "Modeling Assistance" modes and build a model as Hilmi suggests. I have not experienced that issue but sounds like could be a software malfunction. If you drift align it is possible to avoid using PAA or PAC modes.

All the best

#14 dawziecat

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:26 PM

My Gemini 2 HC was always a little flaky. It never responded well to my fat fingers but I learned to simulate using a stylus by tapping with the nail on my index finger.

I got quite good at it. :)
The learning process was a little frustrating though. You might just try a sharpened pencil once to see if this is the kind of thing you are experiencing. Sharp taps . . . not steady pressure.

Worked for me.

#15 Raginar

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:47 PM

I use PAC and it works fine. I like the stylus idea :)

#16 njensen593

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 09:52 PM

Terry,
Thanks for the input. I just came in from working with the older G2. Still does not work correctly, I tried the stylus that I had and sometimes it work and sometimes it does not, just as with my finger. This unit went crazy after I did the firmware upgrade. Did not have this issue with the other version. I still want to put the new G2 in place and see how it acts. It had the same problem before I upgraded the firmware. I did try the newer one on the bench with two spare motors that I have and it seemed to work that way without those crazy actions. Looks like the weather is moving in and I may not get another chance for several days now.
I'll keep folks updated on my progress,
Thanks
Niel

#17 njensen593

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:09 PM

OK Folks....I was able to get my new G2 in place and give it a trial run. Well, it does the same crazy things that my older one does now when trying to do an alignment. You never know what menu will come up after you align with a give star. You may get the alignment menu you may get the object menu. It also does some other crazy stuff now too. Right now I think this stuff is a pile of junk! I have 2K in junk! As I said before, on the older G2 things were working well until I was told to upgraded the firmware to the HC Sept 20 2013 and MB Oct 2013. Ready to send all this stuff back to Losmandy and get my money back and get something that works and I am not doing the beta testing on!

#18 blueman

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:01 AM

OK Folks....I was able to get my new G2 in place and give it a trial run. Well, it does the same crazy things that my older one does now when trying to do an alignment. You never know what menu will come up after you align with a give star. You may get the alignment menu you may get the object menu. It also does some other crazy stuff now too. Right now I think this stuff is a pile of junk! I have 2K in junk! As I said before, on the older G2 things were working well until I was told to upgraded the firmware to the HC Sept 20 2013 and MB Oct 2013. Ready to send all this stuff back to Losmandy and get my money back and get something that works and I am not doing the beta testing on!


That is a shame, the Gemini 1 worked so well. I hate to hear the new one is a pain. But I think that if everyone that has problems was to send them back they just might be forced to find the fix and get the new Gemini 2 ready for real use.
Two years it just too long for people to have to wait for a functional unit in my book.
Blueman

#19 Hilmi

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:56 AM

OK Folks....I was able to get my new G2 in place and give it a trial run. Well, it does the same crazy things that my older one does now when trying to do an alignment. You never know what menu will come up after you align with a give star. You may get the alignment menu you may get the object menu. It also does some other crazy stuff now too. Right now I think this stuff is a pile of junk! I have 2K in junk! As I said before, on the older G2 things were working well until I was told to upgraded the firmware to the HC Sept 20 2013 and MB Oct 2013. Ready to send all this stuff back to Losmandy and get my money back and get something that works and I am not doing the beta testing on!


I have had enough pain with my Gemini II to last me a life time. I am just waiting for the time when I can afford to buy a proper premium mount. You have no idea how much it pains me to see people produce amazing astrophotos with similar focal lengths and far cheaper mounts.

Scott Losmandy needs to get Rene to sort out the Gemini fiasco soon or just offer his mounts with the option to use a different controller pre-installed from the factory.

Not to mention that the gearbox design on the G11 is ridiculously prone to damage due to sticking out and lacking enough support to prevent flex. I go through gearboxes as fast as my son goes through a packet of M&M's. The only way to transport the G11 safely is to physically remove the gearbox during transportation to a dark site

#20 njensen593

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:11 AM

Hilim,
Thank you for your support. I am getting redy right now to send Rene an email outlining the three major problems and see what he comes back with. Bottom line is that the new G2, which is not a month old, never really worked properly. The G2 that is a year and a half old worked pertty good until I upgraded the firmware a couple of days ago. That went well but both units are displaying the same issues, the newer one a little more however. I got the boxes out last night for the new G2 and the Titan mount and am read to pack it up and ship it back the Losmandy shortly if they don't address my issues quickly. I think I'll give Scott a call today and give him a heads up too and to why he will be getting this equipment back!
Thanks
Niel

#21 terry59

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 08:07 AM

OK Folks....I was able to get my new G2 in place and give it a trial run. Well, it does the same crazy things that my older one does now when trying to do an alignment. You never know what menu will come up after you align with a give star. You may get the alignment menu you may get the object menu. It also does some other crazy stuff now too. Right now I think this stuff is a pile of junk! I have 2K in junk! As I said before, on the older G2 things were working well until I was told to upgraded the firmware to the HC Sept 20 2013 and MB Oct 2013. Ready to send all this stuff back to Losmandy and get my money back and get something that works and I am not doing the beta testing on!


That is a shame, the Gemini 1 worked so well. I hate to hear the new one is a pain. But I think that if everyone that has problems was to send them back they just might be forced to find the fix and get the new Gemini 2 ready for real use.
Two years it just too long for people to have to wait for a functional unit in my book.
Blueman


My view is the opposite. I've had my GM-8/GII for two years and it has the latest firmware installed. Mine works great and I shoot 15-20 min NB subs consistently. This is out-of-the-box capability. I did have a gear box go bad and Scott sent me a new one. I dunno....maybe I got lucky

#22 njensen593

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:26 AM

Terry,
Maybe you did just luck out on yours. What I can tell you is the G2 the I got in May of 2012 worked fine until I upgrade the firmware a few days ago, now it has the same issues that the G2 I got last month and that one had the problems straight out of the box! So if I take the one you have and the two I have the % is only 33% working properly, not very good.
Thank you for your input,
Niel

#23 terry59

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 10:45 AM

Terry,
Maybe you did just luck out on yours. What I can tell you is the G2 the I got in May of 2012 worked fine until I upgrade the firmware a few days ago, now it has the same issues that the G2 I got last month and that one had the problems straight out of the box! So if I take the one you have and the two I have the % is only 33% working properly, not very good.
Thank you for your input,
Niel


I sympathize with you predicament. It seems that owners of Losmandy mounts are either very happy or very unhappy. I certainly would contact Scott and see what he's willing to do.

#24 davebuechler

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:50 PM

As I said before, on the older G2 things were working well until I was told to upgraded the firmware to the HC Sept 20 2013 and MB Oct 2013


The newest version of the HC is Sept 30 2013. There were some problems in the Sept 20th version. I should have asked you before but you said you were current

#25 Hilmi

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 01:06 AM

The only difference between the two is better support for the classic hand controller






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