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Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63

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#26 alpal

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 04:53 PM

You guys have done well.
I would need to re-process the data to get the most out of it.

I always find that each image is so different
that I must learn how to process it.

#27 Aircrftr

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 05:49 PM

Hi Allan;
While I'm familiar with the benefits of 2x2 binning, I gave it a try and it worked ok a while back. But since then I've done everything bin 1 and it's worked out too. The basic problem I have is the color balance, which is obviously screwed up. You've done great with the data! Now, I'm trying to get away from photoshop as I was never very good at it from the beginning so I've immersed myself in PixInsight and I'm wanting to continue and improve on it. I've processed my M78 in Pixinsight and everything went very well and I didn't have any problems getting the color right. I'm thinking the AO-X anti-reflective coatings on the glass plate may have affected my color balance. I tried last night to do a G2V balance before getting more data on M63 but couldn't get CCDAP to select my RG&B filters in the G2V wizard. The old V2G measurement had Green at 1.0, Red at 1.25 and Blue at .95. That is the weights I used to combine the channels in CCDStack.

#28 Aircrftr

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 05:55 PM

Hi Lee;

Your rendition looks pretty good! I'll go out tonight and try your combination ratio and see how it comes out for me.
And yeah, this was with the 17" scope. :)

#29 Aircrftr

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 05:57 PM

DP297, Now that's what I'm looking for! Excellent rendition and with PixInsight. :) Can you list the processes you used and how you got the color the way you did?

Thanks, Dan

#30 Aircrftr

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 06:02 PM

Thanks again to all you guys who gave advise. As I said before, I didn't usually have trouble like this until this particular project and it through me for a loop! The next clear night I have outside, I'll see what my G2V corrections tell me.

#31 alpal

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 06:09 PM

Hi Allan;
While I'm familiar with the benefits of 2x2 binning, I gave it a try and it worked ok a while back. But since then I've done everything bin 1 and it's worked out too. The basic problem I have is the color balance, which is obviously screwed up. You've done great with the data! Now, I'm trying to get away from photoshop as I was never very good at it from the beginning so I've immersed myself in PixInsight and I'm wanting to continue and improve on it. I've processed my M78 in Pixinsight and everything went very well and I didn't have any problems getting the color right. I'm thinking the AO-X anti-reflective coatings on the glass plate may have affected my color balance. I tried last night to do a G2V balance before getting more data on M63 but couldn't get CCDAP to select my RG&B filters in the G2V wizard. The old V2G measurement had Green at 1.0, Red at 1.25 and Blue at .95. That is the weights I used to combine the channels in CCDStack.


Hi Dan,
your mathematical figures seem to agree with what I adjusted.

I don't know Pixinsight but I found valuable information
on using Photoshop from Louie's videos here:

https://www.youtube....BGe66vsuSaXb-0A

I know all of his videos off by heart & I also use Fitswork4.

I think the best imagers seem to know both PI & PS & use both.

I would be interested to see what you could do with another re-process.
I know I could do better with another try.

I don't see why you are against binning 2x2.
The Luminance frames should still give you the same resolution end result because they are at 1x1.
The colour info you had was way down on the left hand side of the curves graph
even when I stretched in FITS Liberator at X1/5 - high compression.

There is good read here on binning:
http://www.starrywon...om/binning.html

To me - binning is a huge advantage of a dedicated CCD camera over a DSLR.
Binning capability is part of the reason you pay so much for a CCD mono camera - why not use it?

#32 Peter in Reno

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 12:02 AM

Thank you for uploading your data. Your data is excellent. It's a matter of balancing the colors. It's possible that you might have to a little more work balancing the colors with Baader filters (I assume your filters are Baader) than Astrodon filters. After RGB combine, the background was very blue. After PI's DBE, Background Neutralization and Color Calibration, M63 started to look more natural. PixInsight probably has the best color calibration software than any other software.

Here is my quick process of your excellent data.

Peter

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#33 Peter in Reno

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 12:14 AM

Here is a cropped version.

Peter

EDIT: Rotated the image 90 degrees.

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#34 alpal

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 05:05 PM

Everyone has a different perspective & it shows the data is quite good.
I'm still waiting for Dan's new version.

#35 Aircrftr

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 06:12 PM

Here you go Lee. It's in the other thread where I said I was done with it.. LOL. I'll Put it here for convenience too. :) It's been thunderstorming here today, but is clearing of this evening so I might just be crazy enough to get some more data.. some of the best atmosphere I've had to image through has been just after a system passes through..

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#36 alpal

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 06:38 PM

Nice job Dan - you see - the colour was there!

#37 Aircrftr

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 07:51 PM

LOL, Lee, it wouldn't be the first time I couldn't find something that was right under my nose. :)

#38 alpal

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 12:31 AM

I had another go & this is a cropped closeup.

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#39 dp297

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 03:24 AM

Nice going alpal....
U need to apply a green color removal algorithm to remove the greenish hue

#40 alpal

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 07:22 AM

Nice going alpal....
U need to apply a green color removal algorithm to remove the greenish hue


You're right.
I ran HLVG over it.
Is this better?

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#41 dp297

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 08:17 AM

I gave it a try with
1. SCNR (Pix) or with
2. Histogram

I think u need to push it a bit more..but it could be my screen...not sure

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#42 alpal

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 08:25 AM

Yes - That's better but notice the background has come up with horizontal streaks?
Mine has bit of that too.

I masked the background with blurred layer mask to try & stop that.

I need a calibrated monitor to be sure.
The only other way is to use curves to lower the background intensity
but I hate having a black background.

#43 alpal

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 08:28 AM

I replied too fast.
Now you have 2 pics of mine.
I'm really lost - which is best? LOL

#44 Aircrftr

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 08:49 AM

DP, the one on the left looks perfect to me! This is about the point in the process where I have so many different files in so many different places I tend to get lost as to which one is which! Also, I agree about the monitors. That is why I went ahead and ordered a Spyder4 Pro colorimeter to get some of this inconsistency under control. Also, about the vertical banding, I've been getting that in my frames lately. I think I'm going to do a fresh batch of darks and bias frames for my library. If this one session has taught me one thing, it's that I need to be more vigilant on noise control. I was also trying to get as many frames as possible and starting my sessions too low towards the horizon. I think that hurt more than it helped.

#45 alpal

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 08:58 AM

Yes Dan - I agree.
I think my last effort here again is about all I can push
this image without overcooking it.
Some fresh darks & bias frames would help the background.
I might post the full size on Astrobin if you want?

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#46 dp297

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 10:37 AM

Call me Dimitris....
I am not convinced that the problem with the vertical lines is because of flats and stuff....I think u have solid data.

Perhaps it is a processing problem...I think its mostly chrominance noise intensified by jpeg compression

#47 Peter in Reno

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 03:15 PM

I toned down the color saturation a little bit from my first process. I guess there's no right or wrong way to process this complicated little galaxy.

Peter

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#48 Aircrftr

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 04:34 PM

Go for it Allan! If you get an APOD out of it, buy me a coke. K?

#49 Aircrftr

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 04:41 PM

Dimitris, I can't really see if the vertical banding is there after I dark/flat correct in MaxIm Dl, but nothing looks good in MaxIm Dl, but I see them in the FITS in CCDStack after I've done the registration and normalization and data rejection and average combine. It's in the average combine (as well as other combine methods) that it becomes really noticeable. The thing is that I've done it this way for a really long time and hadn't got them until now. The camera is fairly new and that's why I suspected that my calibration frames might have changed as the camera breaks in electronically...

#50 Aircrftr

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 04:51 PM

Peter, there's only a right way and wrong way if someone is paying us to do it. Right? :) Your rendition looks pretty good to me but it's a little too much contrast for my taste....


To the rest of you guys, I need to concentrate on the problem of chrominance noise where the signal is weak. I'd like to be able to smooth the noise to where it tapers off smoothly to a kind of milky translucence fading to black. (where black should be) instead of getting the pixelated RGB noise where the signal is weak. Dimitris, (or anyone else using PI) is that accomplished in ACDNR easily or is there another process that accomplishes that more effectively?

And I have to say once again, I really appreciate all this help. I'd venture to guess that most of us do our hobby mostly in isolation. It makes it hard to figure out some of the complicated things without someone else to bounce ideas off of.






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