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Any interest in WO Binoviewer to Baader Prism?

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#1 Xeroid

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 02:20 PM

Greetings,
I would like to ask if there are any readers that would be interested in a William Optics Binoviewer to a Baader Planetarium T2 Prism adapter.
Details:
As shown in the attached diagram, this new 11mm wide adapter features a MALE M26x0.75 thread (Binoviewer) to a female T-2 thread usable on the Baader Prism.
the adapter would be anodized and the cost is expected to be approx: $29.50 USD.

As soon as I receive the prototype, I will post photo's, should be sometime late next week.

Tom

PS: I'm not the vendor, machine shop nor employed by the vendor..just an interested customer.

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#2 bsavoie

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 05:20 PM

Sorry to ask a beginners question, but I just received a used WO Binoviewer last week. My home built (by another person 12 years ago) 17.5 inch F6 Dob will not focus with this WO Binoviewer. I have ordered a pipe cutter that will arrive Saturday, so I must just calm down and wait.

My Aluminum struts, were originally designed for a Binoviewer, but the last owner extended them about 6 inches. I could just take out the wood screws in the wood dowel, but I want both Binoviews and cyclops mode. I think I will just take off about 5/8 inch and see if it will focus.

I have another project (Binary Dob) where I am putting together two Z10 to allow me to see with 2 inch eyepieces. I have two used diagonals, a WO dielectric, and Orion. In my experiments I found that getting two 2 inch diagonals together is a bit tricky. I got a three dimensional view of a tree leaf 80 ft away, but it took a lot of adjusting. I don't think people use two inch diagonals this way, but I have done it.

Your post is about T2. I suppose T2 connectors, are mostly for camera work. If my understanding is correct, your connector would not help my 17.5 inch F6, (since I don't have a diagonal) and it would not help my Binary Dob, unless I wanted to switch to smaller diagonal?

Why T2 connector with a binoviewer? Sorry for the off question, but I want to learn.

#3 Xeroid

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 08:10 PM

bsavoie,
Good question!

The reason for using a a T-2 female thread adapter is to connect the WO Binoviewer to the male threads at the eyepiece side of the Baader Prism diagonal body.

As for not being able to focus the WO Binoviewer on your Binary Dob, have you tried inserting the WO 1.6x Barlow into the short nose piece of the binoviewer? Might help reduce the in-focus amount.
Tom

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#4 bsavoie

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 12:40 AM

Yes, I tried the 1.6x, and I tried taking apart two Zhumell 2 inch barlows, I tried everything. But I am not worried, once I cut the struts down a bit I can make it work. My concern is getting both Bino and cyclops modes to work. I may have to upgrade my focuser. I enjoy reading about Binoviewers and using two eyes in general. thanks for the reply.

#5 dbowlin

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 06:24 PM

Tom, what telescopes will you try thIs on? I might be interested.
Dale

#6 Xeroid

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 07:44 PM

PM sent...

#7 OrdinaryLight

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:32 PM

Interested; PM sent.

#8 dbowlin

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 06:40 AM

Tom any updates,pics?
Dale

#9 Eddgie

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:25 AM

Why T2 connector with a binoviewer? Sorry for the off question, but I want to learn



If you are asking why everyone is interested in getting T2 compatible adapters for their WO, Denk, and other kinds of binoviewers, it is becuase by eliminating the eyepiece holder and coupling the binoviewer directly to the top of the diagonal.

As you have surmized, this is of particular value to people using SCTs and refractors.

In the SCT, you get about a 30mm focal lenght reduction for every 10mm of light path you can reduce.

This means if you go from a 2" diagonal to a T2 diagonal, you reduce the light path by about 30mm, which reduces the focal lenght by about 90mm. If you than eliminate the eyepecie holder, you save maybe another 60mm of light path.

This means that for a C8, by moving from a 2" traditional diagonal to a Baader Prism and using an adapter to connect the binoviewer directly to the top of the diagonal, you can save as much a 200mm in focal lenght, and in a C8, this would give you a 10% increase in true field size.

In a refractor the benefit is also in true field.

Suppose you need a 2x Barlow to reach focus when using a 2" diagonal. By going to the Baader diagonal, you might be able to use the 1.7GPC to reach focus. Then if you remove the eyepeice holder and direct connect, you might be able to move to the 1.25x GPC! That would resulte in a huge gain of true field.

So, the shorter you make the light path, the more potential for bigger, brighter fields.

Why the Baader? Because they are the only one that produces very short light path diagonals geared up this way.

There are other approaches. Denkmeier has a very short light path 2" diagonal that allows the attachement of the binoviewer using their own dovetail system (I think it is based on WO diagonals) and this is a great compromise for someone that wants to still use 2" eyepeices.

It would not have to be T2, but it just happens that the Baader stuff has been around a long time and they started with the T2 theads.

For a Dob, there is still some benefit. Using a T2 connection, it would be possible to mate a WO or Denk to the Baader 1.7x Newtonian Coma Correcting Glass Path Corrector. This would give much lower power than a Barlow.

The unit is expensive, but it does allow for a way to get lower power and wider field in a Newt.

But by the time you added the Newt GPC, you might be better off just selling a WO and buying a used Denk II.

Anyway, the Baader T2 stuff just adds a huge amount of flexibility, and shortening the light path in SCTs and Refractors usually has multiple benefits.

#10 REC

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:32 AM

Great description Ed!

#11 Xeroid

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:35 AM

Dale,
Still waiting to receive the adapter...

Tom

#12 Xeroid

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:38 AM

Eddgie,

Thanks for that explanation, Imma gonna copy and paste it!! :bow:
Tom

#13 Xeroid

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:18 AM

Greetings,
I recently received and tested the prototype WO Binoviewer to Baader Planetarium T-2 90-deg 32mm Prism Diagonal made by Rafcamera.com .
Description:
• Female side - M42x0.75 (T/T2 mount)
• Male side - M26x0.75
• Max. diameter - 50 mm
• Distance between flanges - 6 mm
• Weight - 9 gr
So far, working very well when used with the Celestron 9.25 SCT.
Some Pro’s:
- Shorter light path
- Reduced weight
- Direct connect to telescope port is possible via T-2 to SCT adapter
Con:
- You need to obtain and use the Baader T2 Locking Ring (2mm Long) # T2-35 2958120 to secure the Binoviewer to the Prism

The adapter cost is $24.95 USD and is now available from rafcamera.com at: http://rafcamera.com...-t2-female-m26.

Also available via ebay at http://www.ebay.com/...wer-adapter-... The prototype was machined in bronze but production units will be anodized aluminum.
Unfortunately, I could not come into focus with my Astro-Tech 72ED as that scope still needs the 1.6x Barlow.

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#14 Eddgie

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 12:16 PM

Remeber this. If you can use the T2 Prism diagonal, this also means that you can now use the Baader Glass Path Correctors (GPCs).

For this application, the GPC cell mounts into the top of the T2 Prism, and the adapter would then screw down on to the flange holding the GPC in place.

This means that if you have any focuser travel left now, you may be able to considerably lower your power by just dropping in the Maxbright GPC.

If you download the Baader Maxbright User's Guide, it will tell you how much in-travel the different GPCs will give you.

Of course for someone that does not already have a binoviewer, this makes the Maxbright a cheaper solution because you can just order a new binoviewer with nose and GPC, but for people that already have these other binoviewers, it may be possible to leverage the Baader GPC to get a wider true field.

Anyway, should be easy to determine by measurement if you could reach focus with the 1.25x GPC. Many scopes can. The trick is the T2 Prism and direct connection.

But best to measure. The 1.25x GPC can be used in front of the diagonal for 1.5x, but that would be an expensive redcution for only .1x relief.

But going from 1.6x to 1.25x would perhaps be well worth the investment of a Maxbright GPC.

#15 Xeroid

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:54 PM

Eddgie,

Many thanks for posting that addition and detailed information, most helpful!

Tom

#16 OrdinaryLight

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:50 AM

I'm interested in the adapter for my refractors but also wondering if it will allow the WO binoviewer to connect to the Baader 1.7x Newtonian Coma Corrector GPC. It seems like it should.

Unfortunately, I could not come into focus with my Astro-Tech 72ED as that scope still needs the 1.6x Barlow.


Are you using a 1.25" nosepiece on the Baader T2 diagonal? If you switch to a 2" nosepiece you can eliminate the AT72's 1.25" adapter, which would buy you a few more millimeters.

#17 Eddgie

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:03 AM

I'm interested in the adapter for my refractors but also wondering if it will allow the WO binoviewer to connect to the Baader 1.7x Newtonian Coma Corrector GPC. It seems like it should.



It should allow the binoviewer to to attach to any Baader device that has T2 threads.

The Newtonian GPC has an adapter ring that goes from the Quick Connector biuilt into the Newt GPC to a T2 make thread. I believe that it comes already attached (you remove it to use the GPC with the Mark V).

Anyway, it should connect.

But... That does not mean that it will always work. Make sure you have enough in-focus.

I recall, it take about 34 to 38mm of in-travel on a Newtonian focuser to be able to accompdate the 1.7x GPC when used with the maxbright. I do not know if the binoviewers you are using have the same lightpath or longer.

If your focuser does not have this muchu in-travel, you won't be able to reach focus.

So, be sure to read the specs for the Newtonian GPC and measure your focuser in-travel to be sure that you have enough.

Most Newts have at least 35mm, but this is not always the case.

And be sure to allow for the fact that some eyepeices require more in-travel to reach focus than others. For example, I think eyepeices like the Hyperions and some others take more in-travel than others.

Make sure you account for this.

But mechanically, you should be able to use any Baader T2 compatible diagonal or the Newt GPC, or anything else that works with the Maxbright.

#18 Xeroid

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:13 PM

Dave,

I must have previously been having a "senor moment" as I just did what you suggested: removed the 1.25" adapter and used a 2" nose piece into the 72ED. I have plenty of in-focus now!!

Thanks for waking me up!! :p

Tom

#19 Eddgie

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:29 PM

Ah, excellent news!

These adapters usually consume 10mm to 12mm of in-travel.

Sorry I missed that you were using one...

#20 dbowlin

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:06 PM

Tom, I just ordered the adapter. We will see when I can check it out. Thanks for your help with this adapter.
Dale

#21 REC

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 01:27 PM

This looks interesting. I already have a 10mm SCT > T2 Prisim and then I can get rid of the nosepiece on the WO BV and go directly into the Baader diagonal. That would save a lot of light path from what I have now.

Maybe I can even attain native focus in my refrators with this set up?

Thanks,

bob

#22 Xeroid

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 03:29 PM

Bob,
You may wish to do a preliminary test to determine if the adapter will work on your preferred scope:
1. Attach the 10mm SCT > T2 Prism to the refractor in question.
2. Remove the WO nose piece.
3. Aim the scope at the Moon
4. Carefully place and hold the WO Binoviewer NEXT TO THE T2 PRISM input side.
5. Can you focus on the Moon?

If so then there a good chance the WO adapter from Rafcamera will work.

FYI: I could not come into focus with my Astro-Tech 72ED as that scope still needs the 1.6x Barlow. So I use the WO Binoviewer on my SCT. Works Great there!!


Tom

#23 REC

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:37 AM

Not sure what you mean on point #1? The 10mm adpter SCT has a thread that screws into the back of my SCT and then the T2 into that.

Anyway, I get your point overall. I will remove the nosepieces and hold up the BV it up to the back of the refractor and see if it come close to focus. I had the BV held up to the T2> nose > scope and it was a hair off. I could focus on a house 100yds away, but a tree 300 yds away was not in focus. Looked like I needed another 25mm of back focus? It also changed when I tried different EP.

In the end, I might have to cut an inch off the back of the scope....which would be ok I guess?

#24 Xeroid

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 02:34 PM

Bob,
Glad you were able to extract the jist of my messed up item #1...probably due to a "senior moment".

As for modifying your scope...that's a very drastic step and I would suggest your seeking advice from the binoviewer experts prior to taking it
Tom!!

#25 REC

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 02:39 PM

Tom, yes I have asked others about modifying the scope for BV. Another BV expert has already done it successfully on the same exact scope I have. I only paid $75 for the scope it's self, so no big deal. I also have a 80ED and won't mess with that one!






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