Jump to content


Photo

How would the sun appear if it exploded?

  • Please log in to reply
60 replies to this topic

#26 Mike B

Mike B

    Starstruck

  • *****
  • Posts: 9900
  • Joined: 06 Apr 2005
  • Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA

Posted 21 April 2014 - 05:58 PM

The arrival of the photons and the gravitational effects (gravity waves) attending the event arrive/occur in step.


Well, according to one theory of gravity. But i'm not sure we really know for certain, just yet, re: the wave nature OR "speed" of gravitational propagation.

One piece i read a while ago stated that gravity, in all meaningful calculations, is assumed to have instantaneous effects... and when they try dialing in a lightspeed factor for gravitational effects, nothing "works" as it's s'posed to, according to the reality measured. (i'm no doubt butchering the guy's presentation, here... but this was his general idea ;))

We know what gravity does, and we measure its effects (that we know of, anyhoo) down to the "n"th degree... but we still don't know what it actually IS.

#27 Midnight Dan

Midnight Dan

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11168
  • Joined: 23 Jan 2008
  • Loc: Hilton, NY, Yellow Zone (Bortle 4.5)

Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:16 PM

Wow! People are taking this one all over the place. What gets vaporized and when, relativistic speed effects, etc. The question is pretty simple. Would it appear to take less time than the actual duration, and would it appear to speed up or slow down as it nears Earth.

The answers are equally clear. Regardless of whether it's traveling at 1/2 light speed or at 10 miles an hour, it will appear to take 8 minutes less than the actual duration (although the actual duration may be affected by time dilation). And as long as the speed is constant, there is no slowing down or speeding up as it approaches Earth. The effect is linear.

The eyepiece question is, of course, open to debate, BUT ... I'm wearing sunglasses! :cool:

-Dan

#28 gdd

gdd

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1389
  • Joined: 23 Nov 2005
  • Loc: N Seattle suburb, WA

Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:35 PM

An average nova outbursts would flash vaporize and melt the Earth's crust, blow away the atmosphere and boil off the oceans. It goes without saying everything alive on the planet would die of vaporization, the planet would be heat sterilized. All of the other planets, asteroids would be similiary affected because a typical nova outburst shines at least 100,000 times brighter than the Sun. A supernova would not only boil off the surfaces and atmospheres of the planets, they would most likely hurtle off into space from the destruction of the Sun, or be ripped apart when the blast wave hits them at ten percent of the speed of light. You would see the photosphere flare up and then you're vapor. From that close, there would be little to see if the Sun exploded as a nova or supernova. The surge in x-rays and gamma rays would kill you eight minutes after the blast, long before the ejecta hits at least an hour and twenty minutes later.

Taras



What would be the closest soemwhat safe viewing location?

Gale

#29 mrchunks

mrchunks

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 57
  • Joined: 23 Mar 2014

Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:09 PM

maybe I missed the point,
at timepoint 1:08 and 1:12 would not the light from the 1/2 waypoint and the 3/4 point arrive at the same time?
if the surface were 1/2 way or 3/4 way closer to earth would the light coming from it would precede the light that came from it initially ????

my head hurts :question:

#30 palmer570

palmer570

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 146
  • Joined: 04 Sep 2012
  • Loc: Scranton, Pennsylvania

Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:19 PM

The light from 1/2 and 3/4 waypoints will not arrive at the same time. No matter how fast or slow a object is travelling light emitted from it will always be the same speed.

At 1/2, 1:08, it would take the light ~4 mins to reach us, 1:12

At 3/4, 1:12, it would take the light ~2 mins to reach us, 1:14

Not sure what you're asking in the second question. If the surface instantly moved 1/2 closer then yes that light would arrive ~4mins before the light from the original position.

#31 Mike B

Mike B

    Starstruck

  • *****
  • Posts: 9900
  • Joined: 06 Apr 2005
  • Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA

Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:20 PM

my head hurts :question:

Yeah, supernova's will do that...

:ohmy:

#32 Mentor

Mentor

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 627
  • Joined: 30 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Ontario, Canada

Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:39 PM

As astronomers we should all be familiar with the redshift of electromagentic radiation as objects receede from an observer. In the example in question, the radiation would be blueshifted as the source is advancing towards the observer at a relativistically significant rate. The speed of light remains constant, the wavelength will change.

#33 Midnight Dan

Midnight Dan

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11168
  • Joined: 23 Jan 2008
  • Loc: Hilton, NY, Yellow Zone (Bortle 4.5)

Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:40 PM

The light from 1/2 and 3/4 waypoints will not arrive at the same time. No matter how fast or slow a object is travelling light emitted from it will always be the same speed.

At 1/2, 1:08, it would take the light ~4 mins to reach us, 1:12

At 3/4, 1:12, it would take the light ~2 mins to reach us, 1:14

Not sure what you're asking in the second question. If the surface instantly moved 1/2 closer then yes that light would arrive ~4mins before the light from the original position.


:waytogo:

-Dan

#34 chrisg

chrisg

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • Posts: 250
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2009

Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:05 PM

As astronomers we should all be familiar with the redshift of electromagentic radiation as objects receede from an observer. In the example in question, the radiation would be blueshifted as the source is advancing towards the observer at a relativistically significant rate. The speed of light remains constant, the wavelength will change.


That was going to be my second question but I was hesitant to inflict further brain damage on this fine group! :tonofbricks:
Wikipedia says that a supernova expels material at approx 1/10th the speed of light, or 30,000 km/s. So I'm wondering how blue would the approaching blob of death appear, assuming that the sun would actually end in a supernova. (I don't know what the accepted theory is here, I'm more interested in the hypothetical example)

#35 penguinx64

penguinx64

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1264
  • Joined: 12 Nov 2013
  • Loc: Holland

Posted 22 April 2014 - 03:26 AM

If the Sun explodes, what kind of filter should I use?

#36 darren38

darren38

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 50
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2014
  • Loc: Burlington, Vermont

Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:12 AM

We would be dead long before any kind of explosion would take place. As the sun's core begins to fail, it slowly expands outward through the solar system, and I mean slowly. It would envlope the planets, like a hungry giant. If there was an explosion, and I think with our size star, there would not be, we would be long vaporized before. I believe, but I am not an expert.

#37 darren38

darren38

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 50
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2014
  • Loc: Burlington, Vermont

Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:16 AM

here is a pretty cool article, with some pretty cool art work. http://io9.com/58713...en-the-sun-dies

#38 Mentor

Mentor

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 627
  • Joined: 30 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Ontario, Canada

Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:27 AM

That was going to be my second question but I was hesitant to inflict further brain damage on this fine group! :tonofbricks:
Wikipedia says that a supernova expels material at approx 1/10th the speed of light, or 30,000 km/s. So I'm wondering how blue would the approaching blob of death appear, assuming that the sun would actually end in a supernova. (I don't know what the accepted theory is here, I'm more interested in the hypothetical example)


The formula is simple. Given the assumptions presented (i.e. supernova expanding at 1/10 c), f' = f (1 + V/c), so f' = 1.1f. With a yellow star we can assume f = 500 THz, so f' = 550 THz, right in the green part of the visible electromagnetic spectrum.

#39 swix

swix

    Explorer 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 97
  • Joined: 25 Mar 2012
  • Loc: Maryland

Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:32 AM

Say a quick goodbye...

#40 csrlice12

csrlice12

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10404
  • Joined: 22 May 2012
  • Loc: Denver, CO

Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:43 AM

If the Sun explodes, what kind of filter should I use?


the KYAGB filter, of course.

#41 rnc39560

rnc39560

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1650
  • Joined: 23 Jul 2013
  • Loc: MS coast

Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:14 AM

:funny:

#42 Paco_Grande

Paco_Grande

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1594
  • Joined: 14 Jul 2012
  • Loc: Banana Republic of California

Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:45 AM

I have $100 that says a bunch of cockroaches will survive.

Everything else? Buh bye.

Posted Image

#43 TCW

TCW

    Surveyor 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 1723
  • Joined: 05 Nov 2013
  • Loc: Somewhere in a galaxy far, far away.

Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:26 PM

Dan what you are missing is the radiation blast just like that of an atomic bomb arrives at the speed of light. You won't be around to see the shockwave arriving. I seriously doubt your brain could process anything in the time the temperature at your location goes from 75 degrees to 2,000,075 in a nanosecond.

To those who say the suns surface would arrive in 16 minutes that means the material would be traveling at 50% of the speed of light. I don't think that is possible.

#44 Achernar

Achernar

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9013
  • Joined: 25 Feb 2006
  • Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA

Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:21 PM

For a supernova, that is one that is not the result of a gamma ray burst, you would have to be at least 30 light years away to be out the danger zone. The most massive nova outbursts would be no immediate threat beyond the star system in which they take place, but in either case you would not want to be in deep space outside of a planet's magnetosphere. Charged particles will be coming at nearly the speed of light, and they can be lethal to both electronics and living cells. A planet's magnetic field can block them from ever reaching the planet's atmosphere and surface.

Taras

#45 Midnight Dan

Midnight Dan

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11168
  • Joined: 23 Jan 2008
  • Loc: Hilton, NY, Yellow Zone (Bortle 4.5)

Posted 26 April 2014 - 06:42 PM

Dan what you are missing is the radiation blast just like that of an atomic bomb arrives at the speed of light. You won't be around to see the shockwave arriving. I seriously doubt your brain could process anything in the time the temperature at your location goes from 75 degrees to 2,000,075 in a nanosecond.

To those who say the suns surface would arrive in 16 minutes that means the material would be traveling at 50% of the speed of light. I don't think that is possible.


No one said the sun's surface would arrive in 16 minutes or that it would travel at half the speed of light. If you read the thread you'll see that it's a fictitious example provided for ease of calculation. Its just for illustrative purposes.

-Dan

#46 DTH

DTH

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 111
  • Joined: 11 Aug 2013
  • Loc: Georgia

Posted 26 April 2014 - 07:10 PM

I'd be to busy with my head between my legs while escaping earth aboard the Millennium Falcon to take a look at the explosion. But as far as filters--use a variable polarizing filter--it won't really matter--you'll be blind.

#47 maugi88

maugi88

    Postasaurusrex

  • -----
  • Posts: 2791
  • Joined: 25 Aug 2013
  • Loc: SE MN

Posted 26 April 2014 - 09:27 PM

Clearly, the sun would have already engulfed the planet earth BEFORE it exploded. So we would not be here to see it.

The sun will expand to beyond the orbit of Mars and then implode to become a white dwarf. The Earth will be vaporized. So we will never see the sun explode. In Billions of years that is.

#48 sslcm56

sslcm56

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 189
  • Joined: 20 Jul 2012
  • Loc: Montgomery, Al.

Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:43 AM

Oh my gosh....Who the *bleep* cares? The light gets bright and you are in the presence of God. Good luck then.:)

#49 TCW

TCW

    Surveyor 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 1723
  • Joined: 05 Nov 2013
  • Loc: Somewhere in a galaxy far, far away.

Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:06 AM

:bangbangbang: :beat:

#50 17.5Dob

17.5Dob

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 602
  • Joined: 21 Mar 2013
  • Loc: Colorado,USA

Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:10 AM

If there is any hope for Homo Sapiens, and it's further evolved decedents, if they even survive, barring asteroid strikes, mutant virus, over population, nuclear/chemical/biological wars etc. to witness the Sun explode, they will have to invent the the technology to move out of our entire solar system.

Long before the sun goes nova, it will have bloated up/ swallowed up/vaporized the the entire planet formerly known as "Earth" .

People are arguing about "Human Caused Global Warming" and being able to mitigate the effects already. Is it really "Human Caused" or just the next evolutionary phase of our planet as a whole ?

In any event, the Earth will have roasted to vapor, long before the Sun explodes.

How many light years beyond our current world can we move to witness the sun explode, and report about it, remains to be seen.






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics