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Any Mailincam Micro, AVS DSO VS LN-300 Comparisons

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38 replies to this topic

#26 Relativist

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:47 PM

Curtis,

 

I (David B in NM) stated that.  Charles didn't.

 

When I ordered my DSO-1 he asked me what CCD I would like installed in the camera.

 

David B in NM

Interesting, so for a dedicated finder, would it make sense to go with the most sensitive?



#27 David B in NM

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:53 PM

Curtis,

 

Both the Micro and LN300 (as well as the DSO I believe) will make very nice finders.  In the BW mode they are very sensitive. 

 

As far as sensitivity goes both perform the same.  The facts published by Sony support my visual observations.  I believe both cameras share the same circuitry.  If any tweaking was done, it isn't evident to me test-wise.  I would be the first one to tell you if one was better than another. 

 

My intent is to help new comer's make a decision to purchase the best camera.  The best bang for the buck.  Neither excelled over the other.  Both would be GREAT starter cameras. 

 

Prospective buyers must realize neither camera is full-blown color if one wishes to exploit the full horse power these cameras have in the AGC and DNR departments.  They can only be exploited to their full potential in mono.  But, mono has started to make a come back in recent months.

 

Yes, this is a very good time for electronic viewers.

 

David B in NM



#28 David B in NM

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:57 PM

Curtis,

 

Ref:  The most sensitive ccd as a finder.

 

You should be able to capture a quicker image with the ICX632.  The resolution will not be equal to the other ccds.  As a finder, resolution shouldn't matter.  You are looking to grab a quick image of a location, not a perfect image.    

 

David B in NM



#29 Blues Dr

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 07:59 PM

Ok, I'm confused.  You say that the Micro goes to b/w mode if you use AGC and DNR.  I captured the following image with my Micro, exposure normal, set to x256 (approx. 4 seconds), AGC low, color mode set to manual, gamma 0.6, DNR 3.  While the color is not great (I'm just a beginner at this), it is there.  I use AstroLive for viewing and broadcasting on NSN, along with WebCam Max.

 

http://www.astrobin.com/full/108366/0/

 

This image is a screen grab from AstroLive, no post processing

 

I'm not trying to push one camera over another, only saying I don't understand the statement ref AGC and DNR and no color.

 

Mike


Edited by Blues Dr, 06 August 2014 - 08:00 PM.


#30 David B in NM

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 08:40 PM

Mike,

 

I was viewing your show on NSN and witnessed your frustration trying to obtain color with your camera with the AGC on.

 

I will admit there is some color in your image (link) but, the lack of color has nothing to do with your beginner-level status. 

 

Another CN member (Al Viegas) has attempted to use the Micro with AGC on and DNR and cannot get a color image.  I played and played with all different settings with both the LN300 and Micro and failed to get "repeatable" quality colored images.  Those who purchased the LN300 in the beginning when Hemmi first identified it as a potential astronomy camera found the camera behavior was erratic in color when the AGC was switched on.

 

The "confidential" paper for the RJ-11 chipset (by RJ of S. Korea)  highlights the camera is programmed to suppress the color once the AGC is switched to anything but off.  Since both cameras use the RJ-11 chipset, the chip suppresses the color for both cameras.  This is the reason you see little to no color. 

 

I believe you will admit your color is far better with the AGC off.  Isn't it?

 

As I said, the lack of "quality" color has nothing to do with your experience level when the AGC is turned on.

 

Page 76 of the Micro Manual contains guidelines.  When color is used for DSOs the AGC is set to off.  When the user wishes to use AGC the user changes color to night.  With these settings, you will get repeatable "quality" results (even though the image will be mono when the AGC is on). 

 

http://www.mallincam...user_manual.pdf

 

David B in NM



#31 David B in NM

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 08:45 PM

Mike,

 

I see something you wrote above and I missed it.  You didn't use color, you used manual.  I'll test the LN300 out.  I believe it will get some color as you did in your image.

 

I didn't try manual.

 

David B in NM



#32 David B in NM

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 09:18 PM

Mike,

 

I fired up the LN300 and it does have a manual option.  However, just like the Micro, the manual adjustment is limited to two channels:  Red and Blue

 

You require three colors (RGB (Red Green and Blue)) to achieve a true color.  Since both the Micro and LN300 lack the Green channel you will never get a quality color image using the manual option.  You will only get "some" color.

 

Please see page 52 of the link below (to show there are only the red and blue channels available).

 

http://www.mallincam...user_manual.pdf

 

To get a repeatable quality image you have two options with both the Micro and LN300. 

 

1-Color with AGC off or

2-Black and white with AGC on

 

You will not get a quality color image when you turn the AGC on and want to use the DNR function.  I see no way around it.

 

David B in NM


Edited by David B in NM, 06 August 2014 - 09:18 PM.


#33 ccs_hello

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 10:19 PM

...

I'm not trying to push one camera over another, only saying I don't understand the statement ref AGC and DNR and no color.

 

Mike

Mike,

 

<quote>   color mode set to manual

 

What seemed to have happened is that you used the Color WB (white balanced) mode, set it in manual WB, and put extra emphasis on RED channel.

This has the effect of adding the tint of RED onto a normally B&W (which is various levels of grey) image to make it look Reddish.

 

Please Google M57 you'll find it has various amount of colors and quite bluish near the inner part of the ring.

If your capture does not show the other colors, it just means you have painted the entire monochrome picture red.

 

I only have LN300 to test, the factory firmware default behavior (based on setting stated in previous posts)  

is to disable CCD deBayering-on-color-channel in order to show more picture details. 

 

Clear Skies!

 

ccs_hello


Edited by ccs_hello, 08 August 2014 - 01:34 PM.


#34 A. Viegas

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 07:35 AM

Here are a couple of comparisons using Mallincam MICRO-EX.

FIrst up.   M27 -- C80ED at F5    this is a 17s image no filters on an almost full moon night.  Notice the color..

 

M27 c80ed 17s
 
Next up.   Same as above, but now using DNR and x128  so 5 stacks at 2.5s each 

M27 micro c80ED 128xDNR5

 

 

Ok, now same but DNR and x256 or 5 internal camera stacks at about 5s each

 

 

-Al
 

M27 c80ED 256xDNR5

 



#35 Dom543

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 01:14 PM

Al and Others,

 

This is not about the difference or no difference among the cameras.

Have any of you tried to turn off in-camera DNR and do the same amount of stacking in AstroLive?

 

I use a different camera, a Samsung SCB-2000, that has a more flexible noise reduction algorithm SSNR3. It doesn't automatically turn off color. But even with this, I find the processing features available in AstroLive very helpful. Especially against strong skyglow. 

 

--Dom



#36 Blues Dr

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 02:41 PM

Dom, and everyone,

 

I have tried using the stacking in AstroLive, and it does seem to help.  Plus being able to work with the histo in red, green, blue is also an advantage.  However, I was having tracking and alignment issues with my new mount, so longer stacks were looking pretty rough, but now have those sorted out (I hope).  Just waiting for a clear night to work with it some more.  Of course, I'd love to get an Xtreme, but that will have to wait until I come across an incredible deal, or until I whine enough to drive my wife crazy, and she says I can get one  :lol:



#37 A. Viegas

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 03:41 PM

Hi Dom

The in camera stacking via the DNR is very much superior than simple stacking in Astrolive or Miloslick. Notice that the 5 in camera stacks were done at x128 and x256 versus the 17s no DNR which is x1024. Unfortunately the lack of color is a drawback when using the DNR feature but hey for less than $100 who's complaining.

Al

#38 Live_Steam_Mad

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 04:25 PM

Try one more. Afocal is hard.

 

If you or anyone else has any photo's like this of the ICX 672/3 or 638/9 or others used in "affordable" any brand 1/3" cameras then I would be very interested to see them please.

 

I just bought an LN300 11811 (apparently) PAL camera, just waiting for it to arrive. I'd like to buy a microscope to see the chip marking with, maybe this one? http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2807e4d7bf

 

I tried an 8x loupe with my ICX098BQ on my Philips PCVC740K but it's too low a magnification.

 

Best Regards,

 

Alistair G.


Edited by Live_Steam_Mad, 14 September 2015 - 04:27 PM.


#39 ccs_hello

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 08:17 PM

That microscope won't work due to the illumination light is coming from below.

You need an "industry inspection" type of microscope where the illuminator light comes from above (side.)

I would guess 50-100x would work the best.

BTW, I tried on many SONY CCD image sensors, ICX810/811 were the only easy ones to see the clear marking.

Probably even stronger magnifications are needed.




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