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Samsung SCB2000 (SDC 345) or SCB2004 camera?

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#1 patrizioitalian

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:18 AM

Hi to all and thanks for reading my message.

I have many doubts about which camera to buy
Now Samsung SDC 345 (most used for astrophotography) the same spec. as Samsung SCB2000 is becoming obsolete and old.

Now they changed to SCB 2004 that seems to be better cause it has 1/3" Super HAD CCD II 700TV lines instead of 1/3" 600TV lines Super HAD CCD but
as I read in the specifications from SAMSUNG the newer one the SCB 2004 (new and modern also seen from the aesthetic) has only 0,1 lux and 0,0002 lux sens-up

The Samsung SDC 345 (or SCB 2000) has better
0,05 lux and 0,0001 lux sens-up

This one also has some control buttons on the rear and somebody makes a cable to put out a controller little box to control from a distance that new model doesn't have.

So what to prefer?

buy an old camera (SDC 345) with Super HAD CCD and some other useful features and good min illumination or
a new model from Samsung (SCB 2004) with Super HAD CCD II but less min illumination and without any other control features?


For our purposes (ASTRO...) it is preferable a newer sensor or higher-performance characteristics of a minimum illumination


Who knows about this new Samsung camera SCB 2004 ? Who used this for Astro...

SAMSUNG SPEC.

SCB 2000 (SDC 345)

SCB 2004

ALL SAMSUNG BOX CAMERAS

Another thing: for SAMSUNG SDC 345 (SCB 2000) there are some knowhow and guides how to remove IR Filter in easy steps but don't know if that could be the same on the new one.

Advices are welcome

Best

Pat

#2 Dom543

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 12:06 PM

Pat,

I don't know enough about the new features of the SCB-2004 to comment. But I would argue with the statement that the SCB-2000 is obsolete. It has the best available 1/3" sensor, has very low noise amplifier and excellent noise control algorithm (SSNR3). It's true that it has been out for over three years now. But that's just because Samsung is way ahead of its competitors.

Last summer I got an LN-300 (also sold as Mallincam Micro and AVS_DSO) and compared the two for about a week. I decided to keep the SCB-2000 and returned the LN-300. The reason was lower noise and the fact that the SCB-2000 can also be used with shorter exposure settings. (To get the lowest possible noise, the LN-300 has to be used at x1024 = 17sec.) The only advantage of the LN-300 is its smaller form factor.

Until someone comes out with a Peltier cooled SuperHAD II or ExviewHAD II camera, I stick with the SCB-2000.

As both the SCB-2000 and SCB-2004 has the Coaxitron protocol, you can purchase a very handy hand controller for them that connects through the video cable. I got it from AVS for $40.

--Dom
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#3 ccs_hello

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 10:41 PM

SCB2004 is using the super-fine resolution ICX810, while SCB2000 is using the fine resolution ICX638. Both are SuperHAD II CCDs.

SCB2004 is using a Samsung DSP while LN300 is using RJE's RJ-11 DSP. SCB-2004 can do max. 512x, however, the long exp shutter (max. exposure time) and gain control may not be fully user manually controllable :(.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello

#4 patrizioitalian

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:07 PM

Thanks ccs_hello

So I need to find the SCB 2000 or SDC 345 for our pourpouse, you suggest this for me as I understood, although SCB 2004 is super-fine resolution with new ICX810 sensor. I see the rear of SCB 2004 that hasn't controls... as SCB 2000 have.

Best

Pat

#5 TropixSky

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 04:19 PM

Hi,

I disagree in that the LN300 is the same Micro or DS0, you should invest in one of those cameras instead of the SCB2000 and avoid the same mistake I made, back then I did´n know anything abouth this two companies and the price of a Micro or DSO is very similar to a SCB2000 and is optimized for video astronomy.
I know there is people that sware Mallincam Micro and astro-vdeo DSO is the same LN300 but LN300 does not have a feature called in camera stacking (not the same sens-up) that minimizes the exposure time, increase gain and as a result reduce noise. My scb2000 did not do that either.

Mario

#6 ccs_hello

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 04:59 PM

Pat,

SCB2004's MENU does not (it appears to me that way, I may be wrong though) give end user the full control on Slow Shutter (2x, ... 256x, 512x, etc.) control nor full manual gain control. Auto-something (AGC, auto exposure, ...) most of the time goes against your need to see faint astro objects.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello

#7 Relativist

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 06:37 PM

Pat, generally, unless your into doing some DIY, the best option is to get one of the lower priced purpose astro video cameras. They are compatible in price to most security camera offerings.

#8 ccs_hello

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:33 PM

... but LN300 does not have a feature called in camera stacking (not the same sens-up) that minimizes the exposure time, increase gain and as a result reduce noise. ...

LN300 uses RJE's RJ-11 DSP so do the other two cams. It's one of the basic capability. Nothing special at all.
Under "SYS" (ENHANCE) --> 3D-DNR, the value can be from 0 to 5. 0 is no in-camera stacking. 5 means 5 of the incoming images getting stacked by the RJ-11 DSP.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello

#9 TropixSky

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:21 PM

Ok, soo if I get it then is no value in buying this "same" camera from any of the two sellers (Mallincam or astro-video)?
If the scb2000 its better than the ln300 why bother in rebranding another less capable camera?
I mean the scb is easy to find and buy, the ln300 not so easy.

Mario

#10 Relativist

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 01:20 AM

OP, also I think you mean to say SDC 435, I do not think there was a 345 model used much for astro purposes.

#11 Relativist

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 01:24 AM

There is definitely value in support and having things wired up for communication without having to solder, and knowing what you are getting instead of maybe having to hope you get what you wanted, depending on vendor, are some examples. I think the point ccs_hello is making is a valid one in that one can DIY if one wishes to. That said I personally do not recommend it unless one feels comfortable with DIY. (DIY = do it yourself)

#12 patrizioitalian

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 06:38 AM

I think you are right Mario, SCB 2000 is maybe the best value although is not specific for Astrophotography


Pat

#13 TropixSky

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 08:09 AM

Thanks Relativist,

Pat, the only thing I can add is that I have a 8" sct and the scb2000 and while is a nice camera that allows me to see a lot more that what I can see whith my naked eyes in my light polluted sky, I wish (and I'm saving) to have a more sensitive and more capable camera, because as aperture fever bug bite you here you will have sensitive fever or what ever is called.
If you want to try first then buy the scb2000 or any of the entry level (you can use it as a finder later), then you can decide if you want to move or upgrade in the same way.

Mario

#14 patrizioitalian

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 10:49 AM

Yes Mario, thanks for suggestions,

For polluted sky here is not so good also.
I found a new one without lens at 80 dollars shipped. It's a good price I Suppose for first experiments. I found also an used one (maybe was used on a bank for security purpouse) with lens but maybe lens are out of use, although I will sell in the future to get a new one or maybe to use it in biggy back, If I will use as finder may I need the lens ?

Best

Pat

#15 TropixSky

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:02 PM

If you plan to use the camera as finder you will need the lens but I bet the included lens will have a short range, I bought an aditional lens on ebay (6 to 60mm cs mount lens) and that give me a magnification similar to x8
Something you don´t mention is what kind of scope do you have, if is goto is better, and you will certainly need a focal reducer because the small chip is like using a 6mm eye piece, so you need to look for a focal leght between 500mm to 600mm to have a nice field of view.

#16 patrizioitalian

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:55 PM

I have an ETX 105 Meade with GOTO

Pat

#17 Dom543

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 01:50 PM

Mario, Pat,

I own several cameras and have tried even more. Based on that I believe that at this point in time you cannot find a more sensitive video camera, than the SCB-2000. (Save perhaps the new Lodestar 2 mono. But that is not a video camera and I have not tried it.) With the SCB-2000 I can see the same objects in the same or better detail and brightness as with the Mallincam Hyper Plus Color at integrations up to 58 sec or the LN-300 at 17 sec. The shorter exposure times make the SCB-2000 the ideal camera for altaz, or quickly and imperfectly aligned equatorial mounts. As said in an earlier post, I find the image of the Samsung more pleasing and less noisy that that of the LN-300. But this is subjective and is based only on about two weeks of comparisons.

There are, of course, also compromises that one has to make. The SCB-2000 is not a small and cute as the LN-300, filter needs to be removed by the user and the nose piece and cable also have to be acquired separately. It is not an actively cooled camera and, as css_hello pointed out, it has only automatic gain settings. AGC=LOW works well for me but for full graduated gain control one needed to step up to the MK-4 from AVS. For actively cooled cameras the only options are one of the Mallincams in the $1200-18000 range or to wait for the promised APU-1 from AVS.

--Dom

#18 patrizioitalian

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 04:46 AM

Nice Dom

Now I have a better idea for this nice and cheap camera.
As I said before, we can find it at low price and I can use it after, in the future as a finder cam on piggy back mount with the proper lens.

Another ask, I'm trying to build a wireless control for my telescope, to use it from my shack or my dinning room big TV or projector, Can I do so for the cam? I mean, I see somewhere, maybe here on CN, that someone has put out 4 or 5 buttons coming from the cam (maybe soldered inside the cam) with a long cable in order to control it. Video cable coaxial with BNC connector is ok and not a problem.
I can do it after I've done the ir cut mods.
Of course the best could be also to have a motorized focuser but it just more than half of job.
Is it possible to do a control camera cable with a 5 pin cable?

Best

Pat

#19 Martin Lyons

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 12:27 PM

You can simply use one of these controllers that needs no extra cables. It works great on the Samsung SCB2000 series (not the SCB4000 series, unfortunately)
It controls the camera via the video coax cable.

They're available on the web from various vendors for a few Dollars.

Google "UTC controller cctv" and find a vendor near you.

Attached Files



#20 Dom543

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 01:14 PM

Pat,

I use the same controller that Martin is suggesting. I have it attached to the monitor end of the video cable.

If you want an absolutely wireless solution, then you will probably have a computer next to the telescope and wired to the mount, camera etc. Then put this computer on a wireless network and access from another computer inside of your house.

In this case you can use the USB controller that has been developed by Dan Lejeunesse. This controller requires soldering to five contact points on the camera. You can buy it from www.xagyl.com for about $100. I also bought the c-mount nose pieces from xagyl.com.(The nose piece does not come with the camera and you need it, if you want to attach your camera to a 1.25" eyepiece holder. They are also available from most telescope part dealers.)

You can find more info about the USB remote controller by searching the sdc435club yahoo group.
groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/sdc435club

--Dom

#21 patrizioitalian

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 05:27 AM

You can simply use one of these controllers that needs no extra cables. It works great on the Samsung SCB2000 series (not the SCB4000 series, unfortunately)
It controls the camera via the video coax cable.

They're available on the web from various vendors for a few Dollars.

Google "UTC controller cctv" and find a vendor near you.


Thanks Martin for suggestions

I've just bought one from China at 9 dollars shipped, I think it's the same exactly from the pic you put here also white colour.

I had in mind to make some soldering inside the SCB2000 to put out controls so this is a fantastic piece of tool in order to control OSD of camera from my living room, where I have a projector and a big lcd TV.

Best

Pat

#22 Raginar

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 06:36 PM

Wow, Dan really increased the prices on that. Especially since it still requires soldering. It's unfortunate that he takes advantage of the crew. The initial run cost 40 bucks if I remember correctly.

#23 Dom543

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:51 PM

He may just be trying to recover some of the money that he sunk in his inventory. Not many people are even aware of that project/product any more. So I doubt that he is getting rich on that.
--Dom

#24 Ryuno

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:36 AM

Hi Pat
I am using three Samsung cameras, the SCB 2001, the SCB 4000 and the SCB 6001. For taking the right decision I compared the various models using the following chart:
https://www.samsung-...tions/Samsun...
I am mostly using the SCB 4000 because of the larger sensor, mainly for solar. Whereas the SCB 6001 being a HD SDI camera excels at Lunar imaging.
Heinz

#25 patrizioitalian

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 08:27 AM

Thanks Dom

Arrived today my SAMSUNG SCB2000P (yes I found a Pal version fortunately at 110 dollars shipped), now I'm waiting for the C Adapter and for the "UTC controller cctv"

This my new SCB 2000P Cam:

Posted Image






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