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Craigslist, ebay and other Vintage Telescope Finds

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#1001 mikey cee

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 07:31 PM

I'm old and not stupid either. I'll put this Royal up against a Zeiss any day of the week! :p  :poke: Mike

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Edited by mikey cee, 26 May 2015 - 07:31 PM.

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#1002 photiost

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 07:58 PM

 

Sears, Tasco or Unitron never built anything.   Who knows, the optics might have come out of the same glass shop. 

Maybe that is why everyone makes the same claims about how good they are.  

Zeiss is one of the few that made their own glass.

 

 

 

You are probably right on that one. Could never prove it but that is my feeling as well.


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#1003 starman876

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 07:58 PM

I'm old and not stupid either. I'll put this Royal up against a Zeiss any day of the week! :p  :poke: Mike

Be very careful what you wish for :lol:



#1004 DocFinance

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 07:30 AM

Yes, that is my primary motivation in astronomy.  To make everyone else happy.   :lol:

You might have to take on ANOTHER paper route.


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#1005 Bomber Bob

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 07:48 AM

Sears, Tasco or Unitron never built anything.   Who knows, the optics might have come out of the same glass shop.

 

That was one of my points, and a topic we've discussed before, and it can be maddening for collectors of vintage Japanese telescopes:  For a particular telescope, which company actually made what??  Glass Grinders, Metal Workers, Assemblers, Importers, and/or Retailers... lots of different folks involved in providing the final product to buyers.  From my POV, "Royal" is the assembler & final inspector of the finished product -- their stamp on the focuser label doesn't mean a Royal employee made the optics.  But, like GOTO & Unitron, I do think it means that Royal had a minimum quality standard they set for their suppliers.


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#1006 starman876

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 08:15 AM

Sears, Tasco or Unitron never built anything.   Who knows, the optics might have come out of the same glass shop.

 

That was one of my points, and a topic we've discussed before, and it can be maddening for collectors of vintage Japanese telescopes:  For a particular telescope, which company actually made what??  Glass Grinders, Metal Workers, Assemblers, Importers, and/or Retailers... lots of different folks involved in providing the final product to buyers.  From my POV, "Royal" is the assembler & final inspector of the finished product -- their stamp on the focuser label doesn't mean a Royal employee made the optics.  But, like GOTO & Unitron, I do think it means that Royal had a minimum quality standard they set for their suppliers.

You are correct.  However, if you add it all up it still would not equal a Zeiss refractor.  And the Royal stamp on the focuser could have meant that was the only part they made on the scope. 


Edited by starman876, 27 May 2015 - 08:17 AM.


#1007 bremms

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 08:16 AM

From what I gathered talking with somebody stationed in Japan after the war, there were a lot of cottage businesses making optics and various parts. It's still done there. The exhaust on my 2004 Aprilia is made by one guy in a little shop. That's what he does. Exquisite TIG welds in titanium and SS. More like art in that sense.


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#1008 bremms

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 08:19 AM

The Zeiss is made like a precision scientific instrument (it is). That's the difference. Most of the Japanese imports from the 50's to 70's were good quality but not like a Zeiss.


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#1009 starman876

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 08:34 AM

The Zeiss is made like a precision scientific instrument (it is). That's the difference. Most of the Japanese imports from the 50's to 70's were good quality but not like a Zeiss.

:gotpopcorn: This should get interesting.


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#1010 Bomber Bob

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 09:11 AM

Most of the Japanese imports from the 50's to 70's were good quality but not like a Zeiss.

 

I won't argue that point as I don't own a Zeiss.  I've also read repeatedly that the Japanese copied the German designs and methods more than they originated optics -- especially from the 1920s to the 1970s.  But I will give the Japanese credit for some distinctive & beautiful complete instruments like the Tasco 20T, or most of the Unitrons, GOTOs, and even the humbler multi-branded 75mm and smaller classic refractors.  Honestly, some of the Zeiss rigs are either plain, or plain goofy-looking to me.  Do they out-perform their Japanese equivalents?  I don't know.  But considering that most of my scopes spend most of their time on display due to cloudy Swamp conditions, aesthetic appeal is an important factor to me, too.  As is affordability...


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#1011 starman876

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 09:24 AM

Most of the Japanese imports from the 50's to 70's were good quality but not like a Zeiss.

 

I won't argue that point as I don't own a Zeiss.  I've also read repeatedly that the Japanese copied the German designs and methods more than they originated optics -- especially from the 1920s to the 1970s.  But I will give the Japanese credit for some distinctive & beautiful complete instruments like the Tasco 20T, or most of the Unitrons, GOTOs, and even the humbler multi-branded 75mm and smaller classic refractors.  Honestly, some of the Zeiss rigs are either plain, or plain goofy-looking to me.  Do they out-perform their Japanese equivalents?  I don't know.  But considering that most of my scopes spend most of their time on display due to cloudy Swamp conditions, aesthetic appeal is an important factor to me, too.  As is affordability...

There is a reason that the Zeiss equipment is so expensive.  They are simply that good.  Just like the AP scopes they are fine instruments that are very expensive. Ask anyone who has a Telementor.  About the cheapest Zeiss scope on can own.  The optics are fantastic. 


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#1012 bremms

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 01:08 PM

My Traveler has a quality and design that no Japanese scope I've seen is the equal. Many of the Japanese scopes are truly superb. An equivalent Zeiss cost a good bit more than even a Unitron.. For a reason. They seem to be made as good as they can without( much) regard to price.


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#1013 photiost

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 01:25 PM

My Traveler has a quality and design that no Japanese scope I've seen is the equal. Many of the Japanese scopes are truly superb. An equivalent Zeiss cost a good bit more than even a Unitron.. For a reason. They seem to be made as good as they can without( much) regard to price.

 

This is the German mentality and their dedication to quality which we see not only in Zeiss but also in Mercedes, BMW, Sennheiser ...etc

 

A good way of doing things.


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#1014 SDStargazer

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 01:34 PM

 

I'm old and not stupid either. I'll put this Royal up against a Zeiss any day of the week! :p  :poke: Mike

Be very careful what you wish for :lol:

 

 

 

 

My Traveler has a quality and design that no Japanese scope I've seen is the equal. Many of the Japanese scopes are truly superb. An equivalent Zeiss cost a good bit more than even a Unitron.. For a reason. They seem to be made as good as they can without( much) regard to price.

 

This is the German mentality and their dedication to quality which we see not only in Zeiss but also in Mercedes, BMW, Sennheiser ...etc

 

A good way of doing things.

 

Wow! you gonna let him get away w/that??    :poke:


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#1015 Bomber Bob

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 01:38 PM

My Traveler has a quality and design that no Japanese scope I've seen is the equal.

 

IME, it's a due to cultural differences, too.

 

My 5" D&G and 4" Edmund are so American:  Big, rugged, built to withstand clumsy bangs & bumps in the dark.  Short on looks, but long on durability.

 

My Japanese refractors are the opposite:  Small, light, elegantly engineered and precisely assembled -- the rig as a whole has a Zen quality to it.

 

No opinion on the German scopes (until someone gifts me a Zeiss!); and, as we're forbidden to mention automobiles, all I can say about my VW Touareg is Fahrvergnügen!


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#1016 bremms

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 02:10 PM

My Traveler has a quality and design that no Japanese scope I've seen is the equal.

 

IME, it's a due to cultural differences, too.

 

My 5" D&G and 4" Edmund are so American:  Big, rugged, built to withstand clumsy bangs & bumps in the dark.  Short on looks, but long on durability.

 

My Japanese refractors are the opposite:  Small, light, elegantly engineered and precisely assembled -- the rig as a whole has a Zen quality to it.

 

No opinion on the German scopes (until someone gifts me a Zeiss!); and, as we're forbidden to mention automobiles, all I can say about my VW Touareg is Fahrvergnügen!

5" D&G with the modern AP focuser is very handsome. It is Zeiss quality in optics and mechanics. Machined 6061 cells, AP 2.7 " focuser. Certainly better than even a Unitron in that regard. 4" edmund well.. nice but no D&G


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#1017 starman876

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 04:38 PM

The Japanese did a good job of making telescopes.  As already has been said, no where near the optical quality of the Zeiss products.  A couple of other Japanese manufacturers did do a good job with the optics.  Nikon and Tak.  However, like the Zeiss products you are going to be paying a lot of money for them.  Brand names like Tasco, Royal, Sears, Bushnell, Swift and others were just meant to be sold to the average back yard astronomer who really would never know the difference in the optics.  Your not going to miss something you do not know anything about.  Many in this forum have had a chance to try a large variety of optics and have seen first hand the differences between these optics.  While many of the Japanese optics were very good, not until you have looked through a telescope with superb optics will you notice the difference.  When you see Saturn through the eyepiece and it looks like it was chiseled out of a piece of granite because the detail is that sharp. Then you know you have fantastic optics.  Images that will forever provide lasting memories.   There have only been a few scopes that have done that for me.   The names on those scopes were Zeiss, AP, TMB, Quantum, Questar and that darned 178ED meade I have.  I never thought that I would place Meade in that same grouping.


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#1018 herrointment

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 04:56 PM

  I never thought that I would place Meade in that same grouping.

 

You gotta be doing something right!

 

Someday, somehow I'll own one of those before I get too old to deal with it.



#1019 Bomber Bob

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 04:56 PM

I agree that you get what you pay for.  (And if you're a careful shopper on the used market, you can get more than what you paid for.)  But if I had a Telementor -- probably sitting alone in my Man Cave due to $$$$$ -- I'd be even more aggravated & agitated with our lousy weather than I am right now (it's pouring rain again). 

 

Speaking of the used market...

 

Edmund Pedestal Feet

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cfab8720c


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#1020 starman876

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 05:03 PM

I agree that you get what you pay for.  (And if you're a careful shopper on the used market, you can get more than what you paid for.)  But if I had a Telementor -- probably sitting alone in my Man Cave due to $$$$$ -- I'd be even more aggravated & agitated with our lousy weather than I am right now (it's pouring rain again). 

 

Speaking of the used market...

 

Edmund Pedestal Feet

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cfab8720c

That is so true about getting a bargain.  You do have to hit a lot of garage sales and flea markets before you strike gold.  The best deal I ever found on a Craigs list ad was a 4" Tinsley for almost the same amount someone else just bought a 4" Edmund for.  However, in all the years since I have never found another bargain like that.  I think everyone does get there chance at the gold ring once in their life.


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#1021 madeline

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 05:12 PM

 

I agree that you get what you pay for.  (And if you're a careful shopper on the used market, you can get more than what you paid for.)  But if I had a Telementor -- probably sitting alone in my Man Cave due to $$$$$ -- I'd be even more aggravated & agitated with our lousy weather than I am right now (it's pouring rain again). 

 

Speaking of the used market...

 

Edmund Pedestal Feet

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cfab8720c

That is so true about getting a bargain.  You do have to hit a lot of garage sales and flea markets before you strike gold.  The best deal I ever found on a Craigs list ad was a 4" Tinsley for almost the same amount someone else just bought a 4" Edmund for.  However, in all the years since I have never found another bargain like that.  I think everyone does get there chance at the gold ring once in their life.

 

I got mine last week with that Quantum 4 off of Craig's List.   Fantastic images.


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#1022 actionhac

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 05:17 PM

Today at the local book store I bought two volumes of 'Publications of the Lick Observatory' volumes VIII 1908 and XI 1913.

The photographic plates inside were taken with the Crossley  and Crocker telescopes and are just breathtaking to look at.

The quality of these plates is amazing, there is no way I can photograph them to show you.

Both volumes  were the personal property and signed by Lewis H. Humason and came from L.Humason's great neice who lives here locally.

Milton Humason is the famous Mt.Wilson Janitor that assisted  Hubble and later became a famous astronomer himself.

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Edited by actionhac, 27 May 2015 - 05:23 PM.

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#1023 Bomber Bob

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 05:47 PM

Thanks to CNers, I have one scarce scope - the Sears 6336; one rare scope - the Tinsley Saturn 6" Cassegrain; and, one potentially news-worthy & rare scope - the Mystery 6" Maksutov.  With the 6336, I violated my own GAB (Grab A Bargain) philosophy - paid more than I have for any other vintage scope.  It was an emotional purchase if ever there was one.  No regrets as every time I use her she proves her worth.  The Tinsley?  When Bob posted the ad, I saw a challenging restore, and a historic opportunity.  IF the Mak turns out to be a Robert Jones 1950s prototype, I'll be on Cloud 9.




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