Jump to content


Photo

Thinking about Fuji FMT-SX or Obie Ultra.

  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 DarkDisplay

DarkDisplay

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: 21 Dec 2010
  • Loc: Texas

Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:18 PM

I've been concentrating on binos that are smaller for day/night use. Something larger for mostly stargazing has lately been on my mind. There are two choices that especially interest me. The Fuji FMT-SX 10x50 would be really nice. HOWEVER...for just a little bit more $ I could get both the Oberwerk Ultra 10x50 & 15x70. I've read that the Ultra series is very close to Fuji quality, at least in some regard. So, it's sort of like excellent vs very good x 2. (The only problem I have in the matter is the lack of filters for the Fuji.) I'll do some more research, but I'd like the thoughts from you here in this forum.

Best wishes,
Frank

#2 choran

choran

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1876
  • Joined: 28 Dec 2012

Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:41 PM

I would without question get the Fujis. Yes, that binocular is better than having the two you mention, IMHO. Since you also list the Canon IS, I would give serious thought to later trying to get the 15x50 IS if you can swing it. That and the FUJI make a great combination, and between them make up 90% or more of my bino viewing. My small, as well as my larger, go largely unused. If you can afford the FUJI, go for it. Quality over quantity every time.

#3 JustaBoy

JustaBoy

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3922
  • Joined: 19 Jun 2012

Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:57 PM

Here is a website that may interest you. - SInce they are in Poland they have different brands there than our Obies, but they are still BA8s.

Please check them out and let us know what you think.

http://www.allbinos....iam_Optics.html

http://www.allbinos....me_7x50_ED.html

http://www.allbinos....R-SX_10x50.html

I included the one 7x50 because they are still BA8s and think that extra comments are always interesting.

Sorry - No 15x70 tested.

My choice would be the Fujis because of their Excellent performance across the field. - Later on if you decide that you would still like to have one, the 15x70s will still be there, and the Fufi 16x70 FMT-SX will be too.

I don't really think that you will be sorry that you have the best.... Hmm... Nikon 18x70mm? :-)

#4 galazie

galazie

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 44
  • Joined: 15 Jun 2007
  • Loc: Vietnam

Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:22 AM

Go get the Fuji 10x.

The Obie 15x is very close to the Fuji 16x

But the Obie 10x is nowhere near the Fuji 10x.

#5 JustaBoy

JustaBoy

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3922
  • Joined: 19 Jun 2012

Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:42 AM

The U/O BA8 series all use the same 19mm 65° eyepiece in their higher power (per aperture size) lineup.

Thus the 10x50, 15x70, 22x85 and 28x110 all use the same eyepieces. - Of course the binocular objectives get longer in focal length as the objective size increases, but so also does the Focal Ratio, so the 10x50mm size has the shortest focal ratio of the lineup, at somewhat less than F/4.

This is the model that has to deal with the lowest focal ratio, and thus could be expected to have slightly worse correction at the edge of the field compared to the 15x70mm. - Field curvature and astigmatism is the problem here.

Astigmatism is related to the focal Ratio.

Field curvature is without regard to focal ratio, but is instead determined by any field curvature that is inherent in the design of the eyepiece coupled to the 'Focal Length' of the Objective - *Not* the Focal Ratio. - Since the 15x is longer than the 10x it fares better and on up the range to the 28x110.

Of course the Fuji objective being subject to the same optical laws has the same field curvature, BUT there is an extra lens in the eyepiece group called a Field Flattener that takes care of this problem for you. - This is the "F" in the FMT-SX. - Please note that Fuji makes (or used too) a cheaper MT model, without this extra "F" lens.

This is Not ad copy - This is something that really works and is the key to the Excellent across the field performance of such Binoculars as the Nikon Prostars, and the $2500 Swarovski EL Swarovision, to name just a couple. - To be able to have this kind of performance in a $600 binocular is really something special.

You will not find these lenses in the Obie BA8s.

I'm not a binocular dealer so I have nothing to sell you; so why do I bother?

Because I know what it's like to be disappointed with a purchase and I know what it's like to be really pleased.

I want you to come back here and tell us what you really think and I don't much enjoy hearing people complain.

Best of luck with whatever you decide, but seriously I would get *One* of the Best, and then later add the 2nd as funds permitted. - After using the Fuji for awhile you will be wanting only the Best for your second pair also, so be warned.

The Fuji 10x50mm FMT-SX, though costly, is truly the Best-Buy in the 10x50mm class for Astronomy. - Performance as good as a Alpha Roof-Prism that costs $2500!

Thanks,
  • Lou3 likes this

#6 choran

choran

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1876
  • Joined: 28 Dec 2012

Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:46 AM

Chuck, you make some excellent points. I can't tell you the number of times I have seen folks ask for advice, get about a ten to one ratio on a particular binocular, and then disregard the advice and buy something "almost as good" only to be very disappointed and put the binoculars up for sale. I also notice that the FUJI does not appear often in the used market (though of course it does on occasion). This seems to be because once people make the plunge and get a pair, they stay with them. I thankfully took the advice of EdZ and others and bought the FUJI and really, it is one of the best astro purchases I have made.

#7 DarkDisplay

DarkDisplay

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: 21 Dec 2010
  • Loc: Texas

Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:07 AM

Yes, the Fuji seems to be the chosen standard for night sky viewing. I can't remember reading a negative review about the 10x50 (and perhaps even the 16x70). Still, I can't imagine why Fujinon would make such wonderful binoculars and not provide the filters that they are equipped for. Maybe they'll offer them again sooner or later.

Best wishes,
Frank

#8 choran

choran

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1876
  • Joined: 28 Dec 2012

Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:26 AM

Yes, the filters would be very nice to try.

#9 kentw

kentw

    Lift Off

  • *****
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 28 May 2012
  • Loc: Dallas, TX

Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:28 PM

If filters are holding you back DGM optics will custom make filters.
Without filters the Fuji 10x50 is special. Fold down the eyecups and immerse yourself. Remember your first trip to the planetarium when they dimmed the lights and showed you the night sky? This is better!
Nothing bad to say about the Ultra series. I have not had the pleasure of using their 10x50s.

Kent

#10 edwincjones

edwincjones

    Close Enough

  • *****
  • Posts: 8606
  • Joined: 10 Apr 2004

Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:24 PM

in the past fujinon did make filters for the 70mm binoculars

I once had a pair for my 10x70s in the late 1990s
-they were expensive-around $140 for the pair
-may not have fit other fujis
-I did not find them useful and sold them
-you may find on the used market

edj

#11 hallelujah

hallelujah

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5018
  • Joined: 14 Jul 2006
  • Loc: North Star over Colorado

Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:29 PM

http://www.company7....tfilterneb.html

Stan

#12 tropical

tropical

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 26
  • Joined: 08 Jun 2014

Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:30 PM

I personally hate filters! They are too clumsy to use and at the end you don't really feel they are worth the extra money, seriously. That said, go with the Fuji as they are wonderful binos's.

#13 JustaBoy

JustaBoy

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3922
  • Joined: 19 Jun 2012

Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:31 PM

:waytogo:


I hate filters too.

#14 DarkDisplay

DarkDisplay

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: 21 Dec 2010
  • Loc: Texas

Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:02 PM

Lots of people never use filters. However, they might be worth it on certain objects...maybe. I was looking at it in a practical way. Why continue to produce such a fine binocular that is equipped for filters and not offer the filters? Doesn't make sense to me.

Best wishes,
Frank

#15 DarkDisplay

DarkDisplay

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: 21 Dec 2010
  • Loc: Texas

Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:35 PM

If filters are holding you back DGM optics will custom make filters.
Without filters the Fuji 10x50 is special. Fold down the eyecups and immerse yourself. Remember your first trip to the planetarium when they dimmed the lights and showed you the night sky? This is better!
Nothing bad to say about the Ultra series. I have not had the pleasure of using their 10x50s.

Kent

 

I contacted DGM Optics today and talked with them about filters for the Fuji FMT-SX 10x50. I was told that filters could probably be made, if I provided the necessary information. All I know is that the oculars take 1.7" filters. Other than that, my knowledge is zero. It could be that only the Fuji filters will actually fit. Does anyone know the specifics about this? Any help is appreciated.

 

Best wishes,

Frank


Edited by DarkDisplay, 04 August 2014 - 10:51 PM.


#16 hallelujah

hallelujah

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5018
  • Joined: 14 Jul 2006
  • Loc: North Star over Colorado

Posted 04 August 2014 - 11:08 PM

 

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Frank

 

Contact Company 7 & talk to them.

 

http://www.company7....tfilterneb.html

 

Stan

 


Edited by hallelujah, 04 August 2014 - 11:09 PM.


#17 Himself

Himself

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 8
  • Joined: 04 Aug 2014

Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:01 PM

 I will add my voice to the chorus which says "Get the Fujinons."



#18 Man in a Tub

Man in a Tub

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10911
  • Joined: 28 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Fogpatch, CA

Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:32 PM

For my first post, I asked about using filters on my Garrett Optical Signature (Kunming United Optics BA8 Series) 15x70 which was on the way. I actually didn't buy it for the threaded oculars. Since the replies in that thread I have been indifferent about filters for binoculars at the eyepiece end.

 

Owning a Fujinon 10x50 FMT-SX provides a standard for the evaluation of other, even dissimilar, binoculars.



#19 kentw

kentw

    Lift Off

  • *****
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 28 May 2012
  • Loc: Dallas, TX

Posted 06 August 2014 - 05:34 AM

I don't know the thread dimensions. If you can't find the information there is always trial and error at a hardware store. The Fujinon filters are used on the eyepiece side. Another option is to make filters for the objectives that fit over the barrels. It will be more expensive but more functional, at least they won't accumulate oil from your eyelashes. I purchased 2x DGM 2" narrow passband filters and place them on the front of the binoculars with painters tape. If I see a significant difference, I'll make mounting fixtures for the front end along the lines of that used for solar filters.

 

Kent



#20 Lou3

Lou3

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 108
  • Joined: 19 Jul 2012
  • Loc: PA, USA

Posted 06 August 2014 - 09:52 AM

I hadn't heard that the Fuji's filters fit on the eyepieces.  I haven't used these kinds of filters, but I'd think it's hard not to get eyelash smudges on them.  Optically, is there any advantage to a filter going over the eyepiece instead of the objective?



#21 Matt Mofidi

Matt Mofidi

    Explorer 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 76
  • Joined: 10 May 2012
  • Loc: San Diego

Posted 06 August 2014 - 03:24 PM

Best place for the filter is between the binoc and the eyepiece.  A few months ago I modified the 15x70 ultra and replaced the eyepieces.  Now any small 1 1/4 eyepiece that reaches focus can be threaded into the binoc with 1 1/4 thin filters threaded on the binoc side of the eyepieces.  The filter housing has to be thin though so that focus can be reached.  The filters do help but majority of the time I use them w/o. So far William Optic SWAN 20mm (14.5x) have worked very well which give 72deg AFOV with about 17mm of eye relief.   

 

Regarding the 10x50's, filters dim the view way too much.  So I wouldn't focus on using filters for lower aperture binocs.  

 

I also evaluated 10x50 BA8's side by side with the Fuji model and for the reasons mentioned by others chose the Fuji's hands down.  Where as side by side comparison between the stock 15x70 BA8 and 16x70 Fujinon did not show much difference other than a little less aberration at the other edge. However after the modification the 15x70's blows the Fuji's away in every aspect other than loss of water proofing.  The same mod can be done to the 10x50 BA8's, then will it blow away the Fujinon's....not sure because the stock 10x50's are already excellent.  


Edited by Matt Mofidi, 06 August 2014 - 03:25 PM.


#22 Mr. Bill

Mr. Bill

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6106
  • Joined: 09 Feb 2005
  • Loc: Northeastern Cal

Posted 06 August 2014 - 08:45 PM

Get Fuji 10x50...... :waytogo:

 

MrBill's choice for handheld sweeping of Milky Way starfields.


Edited by Mr. Bill, 06 August 2014 - 08:50 PM.


#23 JustaBoy

JustaBoy

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3922
  • Joined: 19 Jun 2012

Posted 06 August 2014 - 09:07 PM

The Man has spoken!

 

And, our records indicate that he can be a very picky old curmudgeon.

 

:lol:

 

:waytogo:

 

:flowerred:



#24 DarkDisplay

DarkDisplay

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: 21 Dec 2010
  • Loc: Texas

Posted 08 August 2014 - 11:49 AM

Still undecided. That's OK, I'm in no hurry. The Fuji seems the way to go. HOWEVER...I just read again the informative reviews/comments by EdZ on the Oberwerk Ultra 10.5x70 and 15x70. They were very positive and in some tests equal to the Fujinons. Not quite as much info on the Ultra 10x50. Decisions. 

 

Best wishes,

Frank



#25 genethethird

genethethird

    Messenger

  • *****
  • Posts: 435
  • Joined: 05 Jan 2010
  • Loc: NC

Posted 08 August 2014 - 12:52 PM

Maybe it will help your decision-making - I just placed an order for the Fujis with Adorama over the phone, and dude was throwing me discounts left and right! I didn't know that ordering on the phone could have that effect, but he discounted two of the three items I got, and the Fujis came to $620 when it was all said and done. They are backordered at the moment, but expected to arrive next week. I hope that turns out to be an accurate timetable.








Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics