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30mm ES 82 or 31mm Nagler

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#1 jetstream

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 10:43 PM

I am looking at these 2 eyepiece for a possible purchase of one.The specific use will be for the North American neb using an OIII filter.My views have been great,but I want more TFOV and exit pupil for the f7,f7.5 fracs and it will work well in the f4.8 dob.

 

Has anyone compared these 2 EP's on the Veil,NA neb for contrast?My 18mm ES at least equals my 16mm Nagler on contrast,so I was wondering how the 30mmES 82 and 31mm Nagler compare in this regard.


Edited by jetstream, 06 August 2014 - 10:49 PM.


#2 Lance1234

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 11:54 PM

I think if you do a search on this topic or google it you will find enough comparisons to make your head spin...

General consensus seems to be that the Nagler is superior but the ES is very close and a better value for the money but search on it and see all the opinions, there are many, many of them.


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#3 Scanning4Comets

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 04:18 AM

I am looking at these 2 eyepiece for a possible purchase of one.The specific use will be for the North American neb using an OIII filter.My views have been great,but I want more TFOV and exit pupil for the f7,f7.5 fracs and it will work well in the f4.8 dob.

 

Has anyone compared these 2 EP's on the Veil,NA neb for contrast?My 18mm ES at least equals my 16mm Nagler on contrast,so I was wondering how the 30mmES 82 and 31mm Nagler compare in this regard.

 

I am also in Ontario and observe in a 20 SQM sky. A bunch of us used an O-III filter, and a 30mm eyepiece on this same target and were underwhelmed. The skies need to be better than that to REALLY see it in all it's glory.

 

The rest of the gang there didn't even confirm seeing it, but I saw it and all I saw was a hazy mist barely brighter than the background sky.

 

Good luck, you're really gonna need it!


Edited by Scanning4Comets, 07 August 2014 - 04:18 AM.


#4 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 05:33 AM

I have a 31mm Nagler, I don't have nor have I ever looked the ES30mm.  It is my understanding that the Nagler has better edge correction and if money were no object, it is the better eyepiece. That said... 

 

In this situation, my experience is that the quality of the eyepiece is far less important than the quality of the filter.., it's the filter that's providing the contrast and defects in the eyepiece are hidden, unseen because the contrast is so enhanced by the filter.  My dark skies are apparently darker than Mark's.. The North American is quite magnificent using either a O-III or an Orion Ultrablock.

 

Jon


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#5 tonyt

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:22 AM

I think you'll struggle to see any difference at all between those two eyepieces in an ED120. The ES30 is very, very good and I've compared them side by side in a C11.


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#6 Illinois

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:41 AM

They said 31mm Nagler is great! Of course they have to said that because they spent lot of $$$$$$$$$$$! :gotpopcorn:  ES30 is great eyepiece! :)  I love my ES24 82 and ES 5.5 100 degree eyepieces! :waytogo: I did look both TeleVue and Explore Sciienfic eyepieces on telescope and I cant tell different but the price is!


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#7 jetstream

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 07:54 AM

 

I am looking at these 2 eyepiece for a possible purchase of one.The specific use will be for the North American neb using an OIII filter.My views have been great,but I want more TFOV and exit pupil for the f7,f7.5 fracs and it will work well in the f4.8 dob.

 

Has anyone compared these 2 EP's on the Veil,NA neb for contrast?My 18mm ES at least equals my 16mm Nagler on contrast,so I was wondering how the 30mmES 82 and 31mm Nagler compare in this regard.

 

I am also in Ontario and observe in a 20 SQM sky. A bunch of us used an O-III filter, and a 30mm eyepiece on this same target and were underwhelmed. The skies need to be better than that to REALLY see it in all it's glory.

 

The rest of the gang there didn't even confirm seeing it, but I saw it and all I saw was a hazy mist barely brighter than the background sky.

 

Good luck, you're really gonna need it!

 

Markus,I agree that SQM 20 mag skies make the North American neb difficult,but up here I have easy access to 21.5 mag skies.Last trip out it cracked 21.6 and the NA neb,Veil were easily seen no filter in my 10" dob.With my Astronomik OIII the Veil was bright,with nice twisted structure and the NA neb,esp the "Gulf" was very contrasted,with a little detatched patch showing next to it ("Gulf).You did very well to see it in mag 20 skies,good observing.

 

I use my 21mm Ethos for my OIII viewing,but want to try a bit bigger TFOV on the NA neb.Long story but I have tried my widefield frac on it and the 10" dob is much better...I know about the debate about "exit pupil is all that matters,not aperture"LOL!I am still playing with that one.

 

I have an 18mmES 82 and other 16mm-18mm quality EP's,the only one that actually out contrasts the 18mm ES is my 17mm Ethos.I love this 18ES,doesn't frost up much...So I'm just wondering if the big 30mm ES would offer similar performance to the 18mmES in terms of image contrast with an OIII.ES does have a competeing set of coatings to Naglers,but Ethos,Delos are a step up IMHO.


Edited by jetstream, 08 August 2014 - 07:35 AM.


#8 Megabusa

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 09:15 AM

They said 31mm Nagler is great! Of course they have to said that because they spent lot of $$$$$$$$$$$! :gotpopcorn:  ES30 is great eyepiece! :)  I love my ES24 82 and ES 5.5 100 degree eyepieces! :waytogo: I did look both TeleVue and Explore Sciienfic eyepieces on telescope and I cant tell different but the price is!

I have to agree 100% with this Post , Been there done that and I can't find any difference between them in my Scopes  , almost every eyepiece I have is a ES , If I spent the big bucks I would have less EPs with the same view as the ES EPs , The way I did it was , I compared them myself ,And to heck with reading up on it , every right up that I read was different , What works good in that kind of Scope is not as good in this kind of Scope or works the best with this kind of Scope if you add this or that with it or ! after pulling haff my hair out I found that the Explore Scientific EPs worked the best for me . :)


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#9 havasman

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 10:53 AM

jetstream, i completely agree with your opinion of the 18ES82. it may be that it occupies a "sweet spot" @ 3.8mm exit pupil in my scope, but that's a really fine ep. the 30mm also is and, for me on a good night, works famously with an O-III on the big nebulae which respond to that filter. i see few people comment on the 30ES82's sharpness but i enjoy that characteristic. with NO experience of the 31T5, i cannot offer comparative analysis.


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#10 csrlice12

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 12:03 PM

While mine works fine, there are a goodly amount of ES82 30mm barrels that screwing a filter on is an exercise in frustration....but the views themselves are impressive.


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#11 Scanning4Comets

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 12:29 PM

 

 

I am looking at these 2 eyepiece for a possible purchase of one.The specific use will be for the North American neb using an OIII filter.My views have been great,but I want more TFOV and exit pupil for the f7,f7.5 fracs and it will work well in the f4.8 dob.

 

Has anyone compared these 2 EP's on the Veil,NA neb for contrast?My 18mm ES at least equals my 16mm Nagler on contrast,so I was wondering how the 30mmES 82 and 31mm Nagler compare in this regard.

 

I am also in Ontario and observe in a 20 SQM sky. A bunch of us used an O-III filter, and a 30mm eyepiece on this same target and were underwhelmed. The skies need to be better than that to REALLY see it in all it's glory.

 

The rest of the gang there didn't even confirm seeing it, but I saw it and all I saw was a hazy mist barely brighter than the background sky.

 

Good luck, you're really gonna need it!

 

Markus,I agree that SQM 20 mag skies make the North American dob difficult,but up here I have easy access to 21.5 mag skies.Last trip out it cracked 21.6 and the NA neb,Veil were easily seen no filter in my 10" dob.With my Astronomik OIII the Veil was bright,with nice twisted structure and the NA neb,esp the "Gulf" was very contrasted,with a little detatched patch showing next to it ("Gulf).You did very well to see it in mag 20 skies,good observing.

 

I use my 21mm Ethos for my OIII viewing,but want to try a bit bigger TFOV on the NA neb.Long story but I have tried my widefield frac on it and the 10" dob is much better...I know about the debate about "exit pupil is all that matters,not aperture"LOL!I am still playing with that one.

 

I have an 18mmES 82 and other 16mm-18mm quality EP's,the only one that actually out contrasts the 18mm ES is my 17mm Ethos.I love this 18ES,doesn't frost up much...So I'm just wondering if the big 30mm ES would offer similar performance to the 18mmES in terms of image contrast with an OIII.ES does have a competeing set of coatings to Naglers,but Ethos,Delos are a step up IMHO.

 

 

Indeed!

 

The skies WILL make a big difference!

 

You're quite lucky to have that! :D

 

Cheers,


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#12 havasman

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 12:44 PM

+1 for the filter thread issue here

I "chased" the threads in mine and it cleaned up just fine. (William Optics would never have such issues, IMO.)

I bought a 4mm x .75 standard tap for @ $4.50 and ground off the taper on the business end, effectively making a bottom tap. Then you can carefully and gently use the tap to chase the threads on the eyepiece inside diameter with the eyepiece laid on its side on a thick towel by rolling the ep so that the tap's direction of travel matches that it would take if UNthreading a filter. It only takes a couple of threads and a slight bit of chasing to provide enough grip for a filter.

A true thread chaser for that diameter and pitch is a custom tool and would cost more than i could justify and this process works just fine. Slow & steady is needed though and a light touch is safer.

Besides, i almost always install the filter in the coma corrector to make ep change easier.


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#13 youngamateur42

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 12:51 PM

Big fan of the ES82 30mm. Use it every night out with the big scope and provides spectacular views.  A great value, I got mine for a very good price too. I've never used the Nagler, so I can't comment on that.


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#14 jetstream

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 01:47 PM

I'm going to try one (ES) I think,all the info is great,thanks. :smile:



#15 Force

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 02:32 PM

I use the ES82 30 on my Orion 12" dob and it's awesome. Be advised that both are heavy beasts, with the Nagler being a little bit lighter. I use magnetic weights to counterblance the eyepiece. Never looked through a Nagler 31 (Probably shouldn't or I'll try and buy one), but the ES is a sweet set of glass.


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#16 bgi

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 05:41 AM

I think you'll struggle to see any difference at all between those two eyepieces in an ED120. The ES30 is very, very good and I've compared them side by side in a C11.

 

^^^ After a good deal of time spent with the ES 30mm in my 127ED refractor, I've yet to be able to discern anything that would in any way motivate me to "upgrade" to the TV 31mm.  There is a lot written about the TV having better edge correction.  To my eyes, the edge looks pretty darn nice - better than I expected after all the comments here.  Anywhoo, if I were to want to concentrate on something in the edge of the field, I'd move the scope.

 

Once you get used to that eyepiece, and solve any balance problem it creates, try the 100 deg 20mm and 14mm ES.  They'll replace some of your stable, spend a lot of time in your focuser, and balance similarly to the 30mm.  :)



#17 jetstream

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 09:50 AM

Well I have one coming,it should be here soon and will check it out when the moon is gone,weather co operating.I'll be able to make a better comparison between the f7,f7.5 fracs and the 10" f4.8 now using the 30mm. This EP will give a more reasonable exit pupil for filter use in the fracs with the OIII.Not sure if the large exit pupil will restrict effective aperture or not in the dob (my eyes) or if a secondary shadow will show.Were gonna find out soon though!LOL!One way or another I will maximize the view of the NA neb with my existing scope setups.

 

Agena Astro is very prompt in their shipping and with excellent communication for their customers which is appreciated.All the info from everyone is great,I like to hear the good and the bad,if any-thanks for the heads up on the potential filter thread issue,which can hit any brand.....



#18 tonyt

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 06:28 PM

All the info from everyone is great,I like to hear the good and the bad,if any-

 

While ES performance in comparison to TV varies for different eyepieces the ES30 is one of the best. The main bad thing I can say about ES is that the recessed eyelenses on many models reduce effective eye relief, a particularly annoying feature of the 14mm and 20mm 100's.   


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#19 nicknacknock

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 03:38 PM

Had both but kept the TV. Not much of a discernible difference. The Nagler gave a marginally better view (note the use of the word "marginally") but the ES was easier on eye placement . 

 

Performance in a f4.5 Dob without Paracorr was similar regarding edge of field. Differences in views could be attributed to different exit pupil and different magnification of the two eyepieces.

 

in short, one would be hard pressed to spend the extra money. I only did as the rest of my eyepiece set was TV and the money was available at the time.



#20 esd726

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 04:47 PM

  I say go with what you can comfortably afford.  I have had the 31 Nagler, I used it with my XT10 and XT12, and never had a weight problem. It was a VERY nice eyepiece.  I only sold it because I didn't use it enough to feel I should keep an eyepiece that cost more than my scope. I haven't used a 30 82° but my 24 82° is VERY nice.

  The springs they had on those older scopes were good enough to make  the 31 T6  balance perfect.  I'm not sure about the NEW Orions but I now have a Z10 and a 28 UWAN and have absolutely NO movement in the scope when I use that and that is right up there in weight with these two.  I believe the newer Orion have the same balance system (?) so don't worry about weight with these great eyepieces.

  You could buy whichever you want and always resell and buy the other if you didn't "like" the first one :shrug:



#21 GeneT

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 07:31 PM

If you want the best, and can afford it, get the 31 Nagler. If you want a good eyepiece and save some money, get the 30 ES.



#22 stevew

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:24 AM

Both the Nagler 31 and the ES30 are excellent eyepiece. Both have world class performance.

 

You can pay double the price for the Nagler but you won't get double the performance.

 

Steve



#23 Illinois

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 06:36 AM

Someone set up same telescope and look at M42. Use both eyepiece TeleVue 30 and ES 31 so which one is best? TeleVue.....I don't think so! Its in your head and look harder to look for something is better than ES! 



#24 howard929

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 09:31 AM

With current pricing on single FL 82 degree eyepieces, a set of Naglers:  5mm, 7mm, 9mm, 11mm, 17mm, 22mm, 31mm, would cost $2700. A comparable set from ES: 4.7mm, 6.7mm, 8.8mm, 11mm, 18mm, 24mm, 30mm would cost just a bit less then half, $1320. Personally, when I pay double for something, anything, and at times that does happen with large to BIG ticket items, I don't pat myself on the back but it has to be clearly better in almost every way or it just isn't worth it. When it takes 2 men and a boy, all fanboys BTW to certify that one or the other is just a tiny bit better, maybe. as justification for spending double? Ha. It's a big hat. Funny.


Edited by howard929, 10 August 2014 - 09:51 AM.


#25 jetstream

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 04:24 PM

I've found that some objects look better in certain eyepieces,and this can be independent of cost and brand,I do like TV's a lot myself. I hope the 30mm ES gives me good views of the NA neb with the OIII-I will compare its contrast levels to the 21E,which is very good. I caught some edges in IC 1318 with the Hb/18mm BCO the other night,very faint and the 30mm ES will be tried there too, along with the 18mm ES. I'm glad to hear positive things on the 30mm ES,which in no way detracts from the known quality of the TV Nagler. We are fortunate to have such choices :smile:


Edited by jetstream, 10 August 2014 - 04:24 PM.







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