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AP130 ... already?

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#26 niteskystargazer

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:25 AM

Rob,

 

Just get it  :) .

 

CS,KLU,

 

:thanx: ,

 

Tom



#27 Markab

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:37 AM

As has been mentioned by other posters, it probably wouldn't be advisable to take this with the idea of flipping it and securing massive profits.  A quick look at the recently sold GTs confirms that prices have been slipping.  What a seller used to be able to get $8-9K NIB a year or two ago is now down to $7K NIB...or barely more than the new price from AP.  This is probably because the GT series is being pumped out at a rate of a couple/several per week and as has been confirmed with these posts, the waiting list is becoming a bit shorter. 

 

But it isn't just AP.  Used telescope prices in general have become quite a bit softer over the past several years, despite the supposed rebound in the economy. Not sure why this is, but it is hitting just about every make/model out there, from my observations.

 

I also agree having owned the 130 and many 4" refractors from AP and Tak that there is a serious increase in commitment going from 4" to 5", in terms of mount.  The Traveler is so much more portable and easy to live with compared to the GT. The difference in light grasp is very noticeable between the two, but convenience is also worth something obviously. 



#28 NHRob

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:39 AM

Update on my listing date:

   I checked my records and I was way off.

I actually got on the AP130GT list on April28, 2007.



#29 gnowellsct

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:42 AM

Update on my listing date:

   I checked my records and I was way off.

I actually got on the AP130GT list on April28, 2007.

 

Well they really are burning through the list.  I got mine this May and I signed up in 05 or 06.  GN



#30 STEEL

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:56 AM

Which is it the year that the first AP 130 EDF f/6 have gone out?

Thanks!



#31 gnowellsct

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 11:00 AM

As has been mentioned by other posters, it probably wouldn't be advisable to take this with the idea of flipping it and securing massive profits.  A quick look at the recently sold GTs confirms that prices have been slipping.  What a seller used to be able to get $8-9K NIB a year or two ago is now down to $7K NIB...or barely more than the new price from AP.  This is probably because the GT series is being pumped out at a rate of a couple/several per week and as has been confirmed with these posts, the waiting list is becoming a bit shorter. 

 

But it isn't just AP.  Used telescope prices in general have become quite a bit softer over the past several years, despite the supposed rebound in the economy. Not sure why this is, but it is hitting just about every make/model out there, from my observations.

 

I also agree having owned the 130 and many 4" refractors from AP and Tak that there is a serious increase in commitment going from 4" to 5", in terms of mount.  The Traveler is so much more portable and easy to live with compared to the GT. The difference in light grasp is very noticeable between the two, but convenience is also worth something obviously. 

 

 

I just did a two year search on Astromart.  One sold in June of this year for $8300.  One sold two years ago for $7,000.  I did not take the time to normalize for accessories.  My sense is that prices are fairly stable and that variations are variations.  Sometimes someone lists high and gets lucky finding a motivated buyer.    Older used C14s have been going for $2,500 for quite some time now--two or three years.    All that FWIW.  In fact, I have noticed in astronomy that prices for used equipment tend to stay constant while inflation nibbles at money value--in other words, used stuff does get cheaper over time, but in real more than nominal terms.  You can buy, if you find one, a working ten inch Criterion or Optical Craftsman for about $500 to $1,000, not too far off from what they were fifty years ago, but obviously much less in real terms.

 

Certainly it is true that I would not want to use my GT130 on my Super Polaris mount, which can handle my 4" Vixen.   But that's a fairly light mount.  Even the "new" CG5s with the ball bearings are within the capacity range of an AP130.  

 

It is true however that if you put the GT130 on a Losmandy G11 you have  LOVELY set up which essentially defines what a solid set up is all about.  It's not quite right to say it has zero damping time.  It's just plain very hard to get it to do anything except show stars as if they were drilled into the eyepiece.  That said, there are a whole bunch of mid to light weight mounts (some of the Vixens for example, and the G8) which would handle this scope very well.  Or put it another way: if you are using a mount that can't handle the AP130, your entire observing program is likely under-mounted....unless, just maybe, you are sticking to 80 and 90mm apertures.

 

Acquire it now it's yours you have an AP warranty.  If you decide that it is not worth it to have money tied up in it--well, there's always an FS128 or a TEC 140.  You can sell the GT130 and buy a used TEC and have money in your pocket.  Or an FS128 and have *more* money in your pocket.  You'll want the same mount more or less for *any* of these.  And *all* of them blow away four inch apertures. 

 

And the final point is you may not be able to afford a Lamborghini. But you can have the Lamborghini of telescopes for only $6400.  If you're going to let yourself experience some real high end quality, this is the time to do it.

 

My 2c. 

 

Greg N



#32 gnowellsct

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 11:02 AM

p.s.  It didn't take me long to say "yes" to AP.  But what seals the deal is I turn 60 this year.  I'm running out of decades.  I've never owned a new car, so that's also on my bucket list.  GN



#33 SteveC

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 11:29 AM

Rob,

 

TR's offer is pretty decent.

 

If you're selling your house for financial reasons and downsizing, then you have more important issues to deal with than telescopes. It's difficult to justify scope purchases when you're juggling more important home sales/purchases. You're putting undue stress on yourself.

 

Again, tr's scope option is a great offer nonetheless.



#34 SteveC

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 11:41 AM

p.s.  It didn't take me long to say "yes" to AP.  But what seals the deal is I turn 60 this year.  I'm running out of decades.  I've never owned a new car, so that's also on my bucket list.  GN

Have you no shame!!

 

No, we're not going to pool resources and buy you a new car for your 60th. Can you believe this guy and his not so subtle "hints"?



#35 WesC

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 11:42 AM

Its a tough decision for sure and not a small amount of money.

I don't think anyone else's opinion of the quality of the scope should enter into it. You wouldn't have signed up if you had doubts about its performance.

 

I do think that its a better value to buy it new from AP than to buy it used later for more money. That just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Scopes don't get better with age and I honestly do not understand why these go for over retail used, when everything else goes down... even rare scopes. Its some weird reality distortion effect based on speculation of some impending doom to Roland or AP or something.

 

But there are a LOT of these scopes out there and a lot seem to be for sale used.... clearly people are buying them and flipping them for a profit. Whatever...

 

You have a great opportunity, I hope that you can make it work out financially. The good thing is that Taks are easy enough to acquire if you do decide you like them better, and your AP130GT will not lose value most likely.

 

Then again you may love it and keep it forever. I've looked through one and it was really a wonderful experience. I envy all of you folks with the cash and opportunity to buy one.



#36 Paul G

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 11:59 AM

Don't pass on a new AP...you will regret it for the rest of your life...I know...I have done so (AP160)!!!

 

I was given that advice a long time ago, ignored it once (180 f7 new price $8200), regretted it.   :p



#37 jrbarnett

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:25 PM

What mount do you have currently?

 

- Jim



#38 AustinAstronomer

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:29 PM

Rob,

 

Let me add a voice of reason to this discussion.

 

The AP130GT is a very nice 5" telescope, nothing more.  It is not a kidney dialysis machine.  If you really want it and can comfortably afford it, and your wife agrees, then buy it.  Don't overextend yourself financially.  Many of these guys urging you to buy are very well-heeled financially.  Be careful with your money.  Amateur astronomy is just a hobby.  It would be a serious mistake for you to think that you must have an AP scope in order to be fulfilled in life.  I passed on an AP scope once, and I have no regrets at all.  None.

 

Bill


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#39 NHRob

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:32 PM

 I have the iOptron MT Pro.  It's just fine for my 4" apos.

I am not so sure about a AP130GT.



#40 Scott in NC

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:36 PM

Rob,

 

Let me add a voice of reason to this discussion.

 

The AP130GT is a very nice 5" telescope, nothing more.  It is not a kidney dialysis machine.  If you really want it and can comfortably afford it, and your wife agrees, then buy it.  Don't overextend yourself financially.  Many of these guys urging you to buy are very well-heeled financially.  Be careful with your money.  Amateur astronomy is just a hobby.  It would be a serious mistake for you to think that you must have an AP scope in order to be fulfilled in life.  I passed on an AP scope once, and I have no regrets at all.  None.

 

Bill

 

Very well said, Bill.  I agree.



#41 Erik Bakker

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 01:02 PM

OMG,  I just got an email from AP that my name has come up for an AP130GT.  I need to respond soon.

Whatever should I do?

Rob,

 

Nice as the A-P130GT is, you may find you like your FS102 more. I had the AP EDF130 for a decade. Bought it new from A-P/Baader, was in no need to sell, but sold it with no regrets. Just enjoyed the FS102 more.

 

As others have mentioned, you won't loose much money in getting the 130GT and then selling it later, but it will likely cost you a few hundred dollars in depreciation. Keep it for decades and it will probably increase in value. Good luck with your decision!



#42 flyingcougar

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 01:23 PM

When I have to clean out the garage or attic, my motto is; if I have to think about keeping it or not...I don't need it!



#43 PeterR280

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 03:27 PM

I tried the AP130GT on a regulare MiniTower and it was marginal. It didn't feel very secure.



#44 choran

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 04:49 PM

OMG,  I just got an email from AP that my name has come up for an AP130GT.  I need to respond soon.

Whatever should I do?

Here's the test, NHRob:  When these scopes have come up for sale over the past few years, have you even been tempted to buy one?  Have you said to yourself "Wow, I can't wait to get mine when my name comes up."  If not--I'd pass unless you are swimming in loot.  Now may not be the time to get one if you are trying to sell your house, etc. I'd consider passing unless you can sell enough other gear (and want to) to make it a wash, or close to it.  As one poster said, it's not a dialysis machine.  Then again, a dialysis machine generally puts up lousy views of planets.  LOL


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#45 Ken Sturrock

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:29 PM

After having followed your various astronomy interests and purchases for a decade (Yes, I lurked many years before I joined CN) I think you should buy the telescope and keep it.

 

Having said that, a number of years ago, I did pass on a Mach 1 when my name came up. During the time on the wait list, I bought an EM-200 and the AP mount just wasn't a big enough upgrade for me to go to the hassle of buying it and then selling the Takahashi.

 

Granted, the AP130 and the Mach 1 are different animals.



#46 Markab

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:40 PM

 

OMG,  I just got an email from AP that my name has come up for an AP130GT.  I need to respond soon.

Whatever should I do?

Here's the test, NHRob:  When these scopes have come up for sale over the past few years, have you even been tempted to buy one?  Have you said to yourself "Wow, I can't wait to get mine when my name comes up."  If not--I'd pass unless you are swimming in loot.  Now may not be the time to get one if you are trying to sell your house, etc. I'd consider passing unless you can sell enough other gear (and want to) to make it a wash, or close to it.  As one poster said, it's not a dialysis machine.  Then again, a dialysis machine generally puts up lousy views of planets.  LOL

 

 

That is actually a pretty astute observation. I like your test and think it is a pretty accurate benchmark.



#47 choran

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:45 PM

BTW, I'm not expert on AP scopes, but I think there's one for sale on A-mart at the moment (sorry if someone has already mentioned that), advertised as NIB, for 7K.



#48 Matt in Virginia

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 06:00 PM

fwiw,

  I concur with 

 

 

Rob,

 

Let me add a voice of reason to this discussion.

 

The AP130GT is a very nice 5" telescope, nothing more.  It is not a kidney dialysis machine.  If you really want it and can comfortably afford it, and your wife agrees, then buy it.  Don't overextend yourself financially.  Many of these guys urging you to buy are very well-heeled financially.  Be careful with your money.  Amateur astronomy is just a hobby.  It would be a serious mistake for you to think that you must have an AP scope in order to be fulfilled in life.  I passed on an AP scope once, and I have no regrets at all.  None.

 

Bill

 

Very well said, Bill.  I agree.

 

fwiw,

  I concur as well.  Granted I'm excited about getting my AP 130 GT, that said, I don't have any quiet hobbies.  My hobby, and later my business, has been with things that go boom largely since I got out of Astronomy in 96' or 97'.  With all that said I DON"T have a pile of astronomy gear to wade through.  I have none.  Leica binoculars and spotter not being astro gear.  I've owned a total of one telescope in my lifetime and I gave it away to a kid 10 years ago.  Hence the AP130GT and Mach1GTO is more than likely a one time purchase for me.  

 

  What I've noticed about my business, which has been selling Accuracy International Rifles and Schmidt Bender Rifle Scopes, is that people RARELY buy a world class product and spend their time USING it and trying to master the system.  More often than not they tend to play musical chairs with Rifles, Scopes, Chamberings, Suppressors, etc...  I've done it myself and I SHOULD KNOW BETTER.  That said I have known a few people, and I truly mean three out of thousands, who bought an AI mounted a Schmidt Bender on it and attempted to burn the throat out of the barrel with time behind the trigger.  I don't think that it is a coincidence that one of those people is very, very wealthy and actually spends a part of his retirement teaching Long Range Rifle at Rifles Only down in Texas.  The other guy actually runs Rifles Only.  He, the last time I heard, was shooting a very early AI he bought when he opened the business and is on his tenth replacement barrel in .308 Winchester.  Which equates to well in excess of 120,000 calculated presses of the trigger.

 

  I've offered Lindy(the wealthy instructor) and Jacob(the owner) Schmidt Bender scopes years ago, that were very difficult to come by, AT COST.  Both thought it over, for all of 30 seconds, and politely declined.  I was surprised but in the end grew to respect and understand their choices.  

 

  Lindy's favorite quote is:

 

“Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but
when there is no longer anything to take away.”
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery 

 

  I've actually done my best to incorporate his philosophy of "things" into my life.  Granted I'm not as disciplined as either, however, I see the beauty of less to take care of and to NEVER to threaten your financial peace of mind for a widget.  

 

  I also see TOO MANY gun collections, some with values that run from 10K to 500K and more, run through by the family after the "collector" dies.  Some people see these collections as only dollar signs.  Most people in fact.  They don't think that they represent an entire lifetime of scrimping and saving to put together the "perfect" collection.  Which is as individual and varied a list as the folks themselves.  I typically see these liquidations as sad.  A lifetime forgotten as people scramble to make a deal.  Some collections go for a very few pennies on the dollar while others go through a bidding process and bring a larger percentage of their initial cost.  Very, very few go for a profit.

 

  The only thing I am saying is that it is only a telescope, which unlike a bottle of wine, will not get better with time.  Either buy it, use it, and enjoy it or let the damned thing go without regret.  I've been amazed by the amount of stress the AP list tends to generate as of late.  One guy is blaming the scope purchase on his inability to drive his car to work safely.  Anything that generates that sort of stress and misery is unlikely to be a good choice...

 

  As Thomas Jefferson said "If I would have had the time this would have shorter."

 

Best Regards, Matt.


Edited by Matt in Virginia, 14 August 2014 - 06:02 PM.


#49 gnowellsct

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 06:31 PM

 

 

OMG,  I just got an email from AP that my name has come up for an AP130GT.  I need to respond soon.

Whatever should I do?

Here's the test, NHRob:  When these scopes have come up for sale over the past few years, have you even been tempted to buy one?  Have you said to yourself "Wow, I can't wait to get mine when my name comes up."  If not--I'd pass unless you are swimming in loot.  Now may not be the time to get one if you are trying to sell your house, etc. I'd consider passing unless you can sell enough other gear (and want to) to make it a wash, or close to it.  As one poster said, it's not a dialysis machine.  Then again, a dialysis machine generally puts up lousy views of planets.  LOL

 

 

That is actually a pretty astute observation. I like your test and think it is a pretty accurate benchmark.

 

 

I've often seen used APs come up but never been tempted to buy.  The reason being that I'm stubborn and don't see the point of paying a *premium* over new when many equivalent performers are *discounted* relative to new.

 

BUT, I don't mind paying the new price for new goods.  

 

So when I signed up for the 5" I asked Roland "What next?" and he said:  "Now you should buy a different refractor."  I did.  I found an FS128 for $3,500 (or something close to it) and had a wonderful time with it.  And when at long last I had the chance to buy new I did.  But I wasn't thinking well I can't wait till my name comes up because it's just kinda nutty.  I would sometimes think, au contraire, that I don't think my name will *ever* come up and I'm sure glad I have the Tak.  I sometimes flirted with the idea of a TEC 140 or a Borg with Pentax optics.  

 

It is true, however, that you should never buy to the point of not being able to sleep at night because you're worried about a car etc.  Nonetheless the AP130GT is highly liquid and were you to post an ad saying: "Wish to trade for FS128 and cash" or "Wish to trade for TEC 140 and cash" you would have a deal pretty quickly.  So in this particular case it is *not* like buying a car that depreciates or buying a 9.25 that depreciates or for that matter a TEC that depreciates.  

 

But the general rule of not letting your hobby drive you to the poor house is a good one.  

 

 

regards

Greg N



#50 madcity

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 06:41 PM

Update on my listing date:

   I checked my records and I was way off.

I actually got on the AP130GT list on April28, 2007.

ohmigawd ... my signup date is May 1, 2007. Is there hope ... Probably depends on how many people signed up at/right after NEAF 2007?








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