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Best Diagonal for 2" Eyepieces in an EdgeHD 800?

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#26 Sarkikos

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:15 AM

Only including the links for the data they contain.  Don't really care where or even if you buy it.  Just trying to help you with info on the differences between them to help you determine if it is the right solution for you.

 

I appreciate the help. I like Agena, HPS and Adorama, but HPS usually gets it to me quicker because it's so close.

 

Mike



#27 Sarkikos

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:17 AM

Maybe the T2 system chart and parts list help? The parts list also shows thread sizes, effective optical lengths etc.

 

http://www.baader-pl...m-grafik-en.pdf

http://www.baader-pl...-tabelle-en.pdf

 

Cheers

Steffen.

 

Yes, thanks, those lists do help.

 

Mike



#28 Bill Barlow

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:18 AM

Will the Edge 8" accept a standard screw on 2" SCT diagonal that attaches to the rear cell threads?  Or does the 8" Edge have the wider 3.25" rear cell threads where a standard 2" SCT diagonal won't fit?  I am considering one of these 8" Edges, but wasn't sure how wide the rear cell threads are.  

 

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#29 Sarkikos

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:22 AM

My EdgeHD 800 (8" SCT) has the standard male SCT threads on the rear opening.

 

Mike



#30 ewave

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:13 AM

yes Mike, as Edggie explained further, you simply remove the 2" nosepiece from the Baader  clicklock diagonal as it has SCT threads that match your 8" ota back cell.

Fortunately or unfortunately, they do not offer the Clicklock diagonal without the nosepiece, it comes with it for better or for worse.

I think that 2" nosepiece is Baader part # T2-19.  I am actually looking for that part number, so please send me a PM if you wish and we can discuss.

 

Clear skies



#31 Sarkikos

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 06:01 PM

I suppose I'll bite the bullet and order the Baader 2" Clicklock Diagonal and the SCT Locking Ring. They appear to yield the shortest light path for 2" eyepieces, which is what I'm after, both to minimize vignetting and provide more clearance on the NexStar mount.  And in general I do like Baader products.

 

I'll probably be selling my other two 2" diagonals after I receive the Baader.  Sorry, Sean, but I intend to keep the 2" nosepiece (T2-19) so I can use the same Baader diagonal in my C80ED and other refractors that take 2" accessories.  I will probably sell a Baader Clicklock 2"-to-SCT eyepiece adapter, since I'll have two of them.

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 23 August 2014 - 06:01 PM.


#32 Sarkikos

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:05 AM

I ordered the Baader 2" Clicklock Diagonal and SCT Locking Ring last night from High Point Scientific.  Why delay the inevitable?

 

:grin:

Mike


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#33 Gastrol

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:28 PM

I'm curious, will this Baader locking ring screw directly onto the 3.25" cell opening?



#34 ewave

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:32 PM

No Gastrol, the Baader locking ring will not fit on a 3.25" cell,  only 2" SCT threaded cells, like the Celestron 8" OTAs



#35 Gastrol

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:50 PM

No Gastrol, the Baader locking ring will not fit on a 3.25" cell,  only 2" SCT threaded cells, like the Celestron 8" OTAs

Thank you for your reply.

Then what configuration would produce the shortest path with the Baader 2" CL diagonal on a 11" SCT?  Astro Physics has a 2" adapter which screws directly onto the 3.25" cell.



#36 ewave

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 09:14 PM

 

No Gastrol, the Baader locking ring will not fit on a 3.25" cell,  only 2" SCT threaded cells, like the Celestron 8" OTAs

Thank you for your reply.

Then what configuration would produce the shortest path with the Baader 2" CL diagonal on a 11" SCT?  Astro Physics has a 2" adapter which screws directly onto the 3.25" cell.

 

there you have it, you just answered your own question. I have the same exact AP adapter and with the shorter nosepiece of the CL, you are good to go.  There may be one other way to shave another 10mm off of that combo, but it is not worth it IMHO.


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#37 NorthWolf

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:16 AM

Good useful thread, I willbe buying the same ota as Mike sometime in the next few months. So far I have a clicklock and a t2 prism.
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#38 Dunkstar

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:53 AM

I use the locking ring and Clicklock diagonal with my Edge 8 on theSE mount. The locking ring just interfaces with the diagonal to stop it slipping. It doesn't have to be a Baader diagonal you use, it just gives the shortest path. but it does need to be an SCT threaded one. The Clicklock diagonal nose piece just unscrews and you wind the diagonal on the end of the exposed SCT male thread.

 

I found it gives me an extra 40mm or so of clearance on the SE mount.

 

Just one thing to be aware of...to wind on/off the diagonal fully it needs to clear the focus lock and focus knobs. The focus lock knobs just unscrew.


Edited by Dunkstar, 26 August 2014 - 06:54 AM.

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#39 NorthWolf

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 02:17 PM

Hey Mike, whatever happened with all this? Did you get the parts you ordered? How are the views? I don't feel like spending another 400$+ on parts to fit 2" eyepieces, (wait than I have to buy 2" eyepieces?) unless you tell me holy **** these are the best views I've ever seen!

 

Is it really worth jumping from 1.25" to 2" eyepieces on an 8" Edge? How is your binoviewing going by the way? Any recommendations/advice, for some reason I keep ending up buying what your buying lol. I just received the Edge and AT72ED refractor this morning, I need to get home and open those boxes, they must be suffocating!


Edited by NorthWolf, 21 October 2014 - 02:19 PM.


#40 Sarkikos

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 04:11 PM

Yes, I received the Baader 2" ClickLock Diagonal and the Baader SCT LockRing.  AFAIK, this is indeed the optimal setup for 2" eyepieces for the EdgeHD 8" ... especially if you want it to fit on a NexStar SE 6/8 mount!  

 

If  you want to set up these accessories on your EdgeHD, read the instructions that Manish of Agena Astro gives at his website.  Eddgie cited it above. Here it is:

 

http://agenaastro.co...nal-to-sct.html

 

Manish calls this a "semi-permanent installation."  I consider it a permanent installation. To do it, you need to take out six tiny screws that secure the ClickLock adapter and then screw them back on.  You also need to screw off temporarily the two mirror-locking bolt heads. Manish doesn't mention that because his instructions involve a standard 8" SCT.  

 

It takes a little time and care to do the entire installation right.  I don't want to do it more than once.  As far as I'm concerned, that Baader diagonal is permanently attached to the EdgeHD 8".  Well, maybe until I sell the scope, if I ever do.

 

The EdgeHD seems like it's made for 2" wide-field eyepieces.  However, I've sold all but one of my 100 degree eyepieces.  I just don't like the feel of these eyepieces. They are ergonomically uncomfortable to me and I don't like having to move my head to see the entire field.  I only have the Ethos 3.7 now.  

 

But I'm loving this scope for the views it gives me through my Nagler T5 31 and Titan-II 40.  A nice flat, coma-free field.  Stars sharp from edge to edge.  The Double Cluster is excellent. The only aberration I see is some astigmatism from my own eyes if I don't wear my glasses. 

 

As I and others said earlier in the thread, you can make the EdgeHD 8 and NexStar work with other 2" diagonals. But the Baader ClickLock 2" diagonal and the SCTLock gives the most clearance.  Now I don't have to worry about the diagonal possibly hitting the mount.  Besides, it's a great diagonal. It is the EdgeHD's diagonal now. I'm not taking it off.

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 22 October 2014 - 06:10 AM.

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#41 Dunkstar

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 03:19 AM

Interesting post Mike. I found the diagonal would screw on if the focuser was racked "up" and he rubber knob removed. Less work than the fiddly screws  :grin:

 

With it in this configuration I'd go with semi-permanent. Although I do swap it out periodically for imaging/use on a GEM.



#42 NorthWolf

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 04:54 AM

Interesting post Mike. I found the diagonal would screw on if the focuser was racked "up" and he rubber knob removed. Less work than the fiddly screws :grin:

With it in this configuration I'd go with semi-permanent. Although I do swap it out periodically for imaging/use on a GEM.


Can you please elaborate a little more this seems interesting, why would the rubber need to come off the focuser?

#43 NorthWolf

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 05:03 AM

Yes, I received the Baader 2" ClickLock Diagonal and the Baader SCT LockRing. AFAIK, this is indeed the optimal setup for 2" eyepieces for the EdgeHD 8" ... especially if you want it to fit on a NexStar SE 6/8 mount!

If you want to set up these accessories on your EdgeHD, read the instructions that Manish of Agena Astro gives at his website. Eddgie cited it above. Here it is:

http://agenaastro.co...nal-to-sct.html

Manish calls this a "semi-permanent installation." I consider it a permanent installation. To do it, you need to take out six tiny screws that secure the ClickLock adapter and then screw them back on. You also need to screw off temporarily the two mirror-locking bolt heads. Manish doesn't mention that because his instructions involve a standard 8" SCT. It takes a little time and care to do the entire installation right. I don't want to do it more than once. As far as I'm concerned, that Baader diagonal is permanently attached to the EdgeHD 8". Well, maybe until I sell the scope, if I ever do.

The EdgeHD seems like it's made for 2" wide-field eyepieces. However, I've sold all but one of my 100 degree eyepieces. I just don't like the feel of these eyepieces. They are ergonomically uncomfortable to me and I don't like having to move my head to see the entire field. I only have the Ethos 3.7 now.

But I'm loving this scope for the views it gives me through my Nagler T5 31 and Titan-II 40. A nice flat, coma-free field. Stars sharp from edge to edge. The Double Cluster is excellent. The only aberration I see is some astigmatism from my own eyes if I don't wear my glasses.

As I and others said earlier in the thread, you can make the EdgeHD 8 and NexStar work with other 2" diagonals. But the Baader ClickLock 2" diagonal and the SCTLock gives the most clearance. Now I don't have to worry about the diagonal possibly hitting the mount. Besides, it's a great diagonal. It is the EdgeHD's diagonal now. I'm not taking it off.

Mike


Ok good info thx Mike, so just as the 10mm sct vb, t2 prism were best for binoviewing the baader lock ring and 2" clicklock diagonal are best for 2" eyepieces. This is why Eddgie kept mentioning the fastest way to switch from bv to 2" ep's....

Well, my well has dried up and will venture down the 2" path at a later time...

As for the binoviewers, you will be switching back and forth? Your T2 will be strictly for binoviewing?

#44 Dunkstar

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 06:35 AM

 

Can you please elaborate a little more this seems interesting, why would the rubber need to come off the focuser?

 

 

The rubber knob is wider than the brass focus shaft beneath, so removing the rubber knob gives just enough clearance to screw the diagonal on without removing the Clicklock eyepiece clamp.


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#45 NorthWolf

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 02:49 PM

Guys, what would happen if I were to use this 2" diagonal in the edge hd or a refractor I have?

 

http://www.ontariote...-SCT_p_377.html

 

I'm confused now, I have an edgehd 8, an at72ed refractor, a 10mm sct vb adapter to T2, a T2 prism 1.25", a 1.25" clicklock, a T2 1.25" nosepiece, what to sell and what to buy?

 

Someone told me to get this http://agenaastro.co...ce-adapter.html so I can stick it in the refractor so I that I may attach the 1.25" diagonal?

 

I'd like to use 1.25" eyepieces and eventually 2" eyepieces too if possible as well as to binoview maybe with both telescopes.

 

Help? Advice? Eddgie alert!


Edited by NorthWolf, 22 October 2014 - 02:56 PM.


#46 Eddgie

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 02:58 PM

Guys, what would happen if I were to use this 2" diagonal in the edge hd or a refractor I have?

 

http://www.ontariote...-SCT_p_377.html

 

I don't know about the refractor, but here is the one caution I would give.  If the scope is GEM mounted, you may find that changing the angle of the focuser can be difficult because getting to the ring with very little clearance to loosen it and tighten it could be tight, especially with gloves on.  That would be my only concern for this.

 

If it were mounted alt-as (fork, true alt-az, or single arm fork) where the diagonal does not have to ever be moved, I think it would be a great, inexpensive alternative to the Baader.

 

On other concern I might have is that often these plastic ring type compression rings can mis-behave when eyepieces have safety undercuts.  I have to say though, that this unit seems to have positioned a wide compression band far enough below the common inset for safety undercuts that in this case, it might not be a problem.

 

If the scope is GEM mounted though, this unit looks like it would be fussy to turn the diagonal as you moved to different positions.  For light eyepieces where you did not have to tighten it very much, might be fine.  But to keep a heavy eyepiece from rotating (oh, I have had that problem many times with SCT type diagonals), you need to get the ring pretty tight, and when you need to loosen it on a cold night while wearing gloves, you might find it less desirable.

 

Light path looks very short like the Baader though, and it does indeed seem to be a really excellent value!


Edited by Eddgie, 22 October 2014 - 02:58 PM.


#47 NorthWolf

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 03:08 PM

Wow, that's good news Eddgie, thank you. No I will not be using a GEM mount for now, instead a Nexstar 6/8 SE mount.

 

As for the binoviewing, which setup do you suggest I use on the refractor, hmm maybe I should go search in the binoviewer forum or start a new thread there?


Edited by NorthWolf, 22 October 2014 - 03:09 PM.


#48 Eddgie

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 05:35 PM

For the refractor, here would be my concern.  If this unit is the kind where the nose unscrews, my concern would be that at some point, the nose will break free and let the binoviewer rotate down, and you may drop your eyepieces.   I have had a variety of adapters and backs do this over the years.

If you tilt the binoviewer to the right side of the focuser, the moment of leverage an get pretty high, and if the nose piece is not tight, it could break free.

On the other hand, if you tighten the nose up so tight that it is not going to come free, then you will have trouble getting it off when you want to change the connector (I assume the diagonal we are talking about has interchangeable nose).

 

Now, this is not unique to this diagonal.  It can happen to any diagonal. I had a regular Istar break free, and I had the nose on a T2 Prism break free.  There can be a lot of weight out there with BVs.

 

This is why I have kind of dedicated diagonals to my binoviewers and have tightened the noses enough (used strap wrenches and the lock ring) to make darned sure that I never have this problem.   Anyway, not saying that this is a show stopper, but getting the SCT nose on tight to the diagonal is going to be harder because there is no grip surface.  If it were me and I were using it for binoviewing, I would put it on with LockTite so that it would never move, and get a 2" diagonal for the refractor and do the same thing.

 

Having a component slip while your $1400 binoviewer is in the diagonal in the middle of the night while you are observing from a concrete patio is heart stopping.  I don't think I have that many re-starts left in mine... LOL.

 

Not saying that it won't work for you, but be aware of the potential for a dump event. 


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#49 NorthWolf

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 06:49 PM

For the refractor, here would be my concern.  If this unit is the kind where the nose unscrews, my concern would be that at some point, the nose will break free and let the binoviewer rotate down, and you may drop your eyepieces.   I have had a variety of adapters and backs do this over the years.

If you tilt the binoviewer to the right side of the focuser, the moment of leverage an get pretty high, and if the nose piece is not tight, it could break free.

On the other hand, if you tighten the nose up so tight that it is not going to come free, then you will have trouble getting it off when you want to change the connector (I assume the diagonal we are talking about has interchangeable nose).

 

Now, this is not unique to this diagonal.  It can happen to any diagonal. I had a regular Istar break free, and I had the nose on a T2 Prism break free.  There can be a lot of weight out there with BVs.

 

This is why I have kind of dedicated diagonals to my binoviewers and have tightened the noses enough (used strap wrenches and the lock ring) to make darned sure that I never have this problem.   Anyway, not saying that this is a show stopper, but getting the SCT nose on tight to the diagonal is going to be harder because there is no grip surface.  If it were me and I were using it for binoviewing, I would put it on with LockTite so that it would never move, and get a 2" diagonal for the refractor and do the same thing.

 

Having a component slip while your $1400 binoviewer is in the diagonal in the middle of the night while you are observing from a concrete patio is heart stopping.  I don't think I have that many re-starts left in mine... LOL.

 

Not saying that it won't work for you, but be aware of the potential for a dump event. 

When my Binoviewers and 2x 17.3mm Delos slipped the first 2-3 times on the 6SE first test and I had to jump more than once to save them it really made me pause and think too lol. I make sure the VB and all adapters, and holders and diagonals are always tight and secure, but you can never have enough security. By the way, I was looking for a Loctite adapter until I realized it's an adhesive crazy glue type lol. Now I know by what you mean dedicated scope.

 

Would this be the correct path to the following:

 

1. Refractor = Antares 2" to 1.25" Twist-Lock Eyepiece Adapter than Baader 1.25" Nosepiece / T-2 Adapter # T2-14 2458105 followed by Zeiss Jena 90° diagonal prism - 2x T2 connection (2456095 #1B) and 1,25" eyepiece holder "ClickLock" - T2 female to 1,25" female (2458100 #8) and than the Binoviewers?

 

Now if I want to switch to a 2" ep setup, is this the correct setup > (2" Mirror Diagonal with Twist Lock for SCT) and would I need anything from the T-2 Quick Change System for a more convenient switch?

 

Please look at this picture, the refractor has a screw on the right side that clamps down only from the right side, is what I just listed going to even fit in there you think? I have it fully stretched outwards here, that is the maximum will go and this is a 72mm refractor to get an idea of the size.

 

22_10_2014_12_23_55_PM.jpg

 

2. EdgeHD 8 = Baader Ultra-Short (10mm) SCT Female to T2 Male T-Adapter # SCT-T 2958500B followed by Zeiss Jena 90° diagonal prism - 2x T2 connection (2456095 #1B) and 1,25" eyepiece holder "ClickLock" - T2 female to 1,25" female (2458100 #8) and than the Binoviewers?

 

When switching to a 2" ep setup> Same as refractor (2" Mirror Diagonal with Twist Lock for SCT) and would I need anything from the T-2 Quick Change System for a more convenient switch?

 

Am I getting this right or am I missing something? :scratchhead:  :thinking:


Edited by NorthWolf, 22 October 2014 - 06:52 PM.


#50 Sarkikos

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 06:45 AM

Interesting post Mike. I found the diagonal would screw on if the focuser was racked "up" and he rubber knob removed. Less work than the fiddly screws  :grin:

 

With it in this configuration I'd go with semi-permanent. Although I do swap it out periodically for imaging/use on a GEM.

 

Do you have a standard C8 or an EdgeHD 8"?  That might make a difference.

 

In any case, I'll just leave the Baader 2" ClickLock Diagonal on the EdgeHD 8".  I have other 2" diagonals I can use on my other Cats or refractors.  I don't do imaging, and I don't do GEMs, so those factors don't enter into the equation for me.

 

The EdgeHD telescopes excel at wide-field views, which usually mean a 2" eyepiece.  I think it's important to have the ability to use 2" eyepieces with the EdgeHD 8".  It's also important for the diagonal to not hit the mount if you're going to use the EdgeHD 8" on the NexStar. Therefore the Baader 2" ClickLock Diagonal and SCTLock - or a similar setup - is required.

 

:grin:

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 23 October 2014 - 07:25 AM.







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