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#1 kraterkid

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 10:25 PM

Undoubtedly you’ve heard of APOD and LPOD but have you ever heard of ASOD (Astronomy Sketch of the Day)? Well, it doesn’t quite exist yet, but I’d love to hear your comments about the idea of a calendrical website that would give a single day spotlight to a sketch and its accompanying report. There would of course, be a permanent link to the CN Sketching Forum as well as LPOD and APOD and whatever other good “pods” we can find (ALPO and Spaceweather.com would be nice). We can start a list of the websites of amateur sketchers who submit sketches. An archive will allow sketches from previous days to be reviewed. On days when there are no submissions an historical sketch or a particular technique by itself could be discussed. The idea here is to provide an appropriate stage for a single sketch for the entire day, much as other similar websites treat the best CCD and DSLR images supplied by amateurs. Obviously these other sites have specific areas of interest. One of the very cool things about Astronomical Sketching is that it includes just about every type of celestial object you can think of, and that makes it very attractive to all. I don’t know a thing about how to go about setting up a calendrical website but if any of you know anything about the nuts and bolts required to put one together please chime in. This is another chance for sketching to reach out and instruct, not only with techniques but with serious discussion of the objects through the works and words of the artists themselves.

What do you think about the concept? Would you participate if such a daily website existed? :question:

#2 Jaycin

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 10:49 PM

Rich,

I absolutely love the idea! :waytogo: Of course I would participate, but I'm afraid I couldn't be much help with the site construction. I created my site with Yahoo Page Builder and I don't have much knowledge of html code. I will be happy to do anything I can to help though.

#3 Vlad

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 04:11 AM

The idea is GREAT! :jump: :waytogo: :waytogo: :waytogo:

#4 CarlosEH

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 08:05 AM

Rich,

I also think that this is an excellent idea. It would provide another site where astronomical drawings could be posted for others to learn that this art form is not dead. We should look into what it takes to set up such a site.

Carlos

#5 kraterkid

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 11:01 AM

Thank you for your positive feedback Jason, Vlad and Carlos. :D I keep considering how wonderful it will be to see the sketchwork from folks all over the globe, many having never known that a whole community of artists exists at CN. The site can act as a portal to this vibrant community and yes indeed Carlos, this will be another opportunity to show that the rumor of the death of Astronomical Sketching is greatly exaggerated! ;) (Mark Twain)

#6 frank5817

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 11:29 AM

Rich,

I think your idea will fly and really take off. There are certainly many talented astronomy artists here and at other sites that would participate. Some brainstorming will be required as to exactly what is needed to get started(objectives), remain viable, sustain interest and participate. Surely there are webmasters here that could help with some of the challenges involving the nuts and bolts of set-up and maintenance.

Frank

#7 rodelaet

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 04:03 PM

Rich,

I believe that this project really has great potential. :jump:

#8 SGT500

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 04:06 PM

Great idea Rich...I hope the idea becomes a reality.

#9 Special Ed

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 07:35 PM

Rich,

It's a fine idea. I like the thought of spotlighting historical sketches done by all those great observers going back to the 1600's as well as showcasing the work of those sketching today.

#10 Jeremy Perez

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 07:57 PM

Rich, I think that's a great idea. I mean, even if you did an ASOW (Astronomy Sketch Of the Week) at first to get the ball rolling, it would be a very nice point of visibility for astronomical sketching. Although I run my own site, I'm not much of a web guru. I'm partial to blogging programs since they automate so much of the process. If you run the site like APOD or LPOD, you'll probably have a medium res image that links to a high-res image in some cases. Which would mean eventually needing ample server space.

If you roughly assume a 50K feature image with a 150K high res image linked behind it, that's up to 200K per day. Which amounts to up to 73 Mb of data added per year. By way of comparison, the server package I subscribe to ($60/year) alots me 750 Mb of space. So that's certainly ample if you use a similar web service that you pay for. If you're thinking of using PhotoBucket or other free service, I know there are plenty of folks much more experienced with that than I am.

I've actually been exploring ways recently of getting my hands--actually a scanner or camera--on some old sketches...pre 1920s before copyright became a larger issue. I'm thinking of digging through some online archives to find old publications that might feature those images--and then seeing if there's a way to access them in person. (Not that I'd be in a position to travel to a US Naval Observatory Library a thousand miles away on such a whim...but who knows.) What a fantastic archive of historical sketching resources that would be though. I mean, if you gradually built up a collection that contained historical sketches at an ASOD site, you could also put together a symbiotic archive that points to those works by observer, object, object type, date, and so on.

#11 kraterkid

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 02:37 AM

Thanks for your wonderful words of encouragement Frank, Rony, Sal, Michael and Jeremy! :waytogo: I'd say that the number of folks in favor of this idea means it should be acted on. I'll definitely be working to make this site a reality.

Jeremy thanks for the info on the memory requirements for a site like this. It really does seem workable at a very inexpensive rate per year. And I'd imagine that there are blog templates that are built for these kind of sites. Your idea of retrieving sketches at public observatory galleries or even in library stacks (many universities have old astronomical scientific texts that are illustrated by the scientists themselves or their assistants) is great! I think the ASOD would be a wonderful place to celebrate the history of Astronomical Sketching besides providing a very interesting review of the various techniques employed for the actual sketch.

Thank you all! :rainbow:

#12 Special Ed

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 12:57 PM

Rich,

Here's a suggestion to follow up on Jeremy's advice. Why not contact Chuck Wood and ask him about the nuts and bolts process of running LPOD?

#13 rodelaet

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 04:17 PM

:question: Is there a copyright on old sketches like the ones from Messier or Lord Ross. Is there a time limit on a copyright. If I post a sketch, is it protected by copyright?

#14 Jeremy Perez

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 04:47 PM

Hi Rony, you're work definitely is protected by copyright. Unfortunately, the statutes are complicated and some see them as more open to interpretation than others. I believe they also will vary from country to country.

That's why I always ask and assign credit when displaying the work of others either on my site, or as teaching tools. Besides the fact that it's courteous =) Everybody here is really good about that.

I'll look up some links on the subject and post them. That way I won't misquote or otherwise get any of the facts wrong.

#15 cildarith

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 05:41 PM

Cool idea Rich! :)

#16 Sol Robbins

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 09:37 PM

Copyright in the US belongs to it creator/owner for her/his lifetime plus 21 years.

Copyright is easy to establish by putting a copyright symbol or an abbreviation like copr. alongside the creator's/owner's name. Having the year of the image's creation doesn't hurt either and act as a form of provenance. Additionally, this can be buttressed by copyrighting with the Library of Congress. Images can be presented in various formats along with application and a small fee. The amount of images per application can be as many as you want. So, you can copyright entire "anthologies" which include many individual imges. For example "Anthology #1" or "Anthology 2007". Anyway, you get the idea.

Enforcing copyright is another subject altogether. Asking for use permission is always nice. What you have to consider is what's in it for those who ask permission,,, meaning will they make money off of it. This is also another subject altogether.

Best,

#17 kraterkid

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 02:35 AM

Great thoughts folks! :waytogo:

Michael, wonderful idea! Thanks!

Rony, excellent question, Sol's advice is quite correct with regard to Patent law.

Thanks for your positive feedback Eric.

Jeremy, that would be cool.

Thanks Sol, excellent points all.

Wow, thanks for the very encouraging responses. I'll be in touch soon when I get word from Chuck about the LPOD site construction.

#18 Erix

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 08:46 AM

Sol, thanks for the info on copyrights. For anyone that is interested, here's a link to get you started. I've been wanting to do this myself. http://www.copyright.gov/

Rich, this is a very worthwhile project!

#19 SallyR

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 07:03 AM

Rich, I think this is a fantastic idea - it would really help to raise the profile of astronomical sketching! :jump:

#20 Special Ed

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 06:39 PM

I've actually been exploring ways recently of getting my hands--actually a scanner or camera--on some old sketches...pre 1920s before copyright became a larger issue. I'm thinking of digging through some online archives to find old publications that might feature those images--and then seeing if there's a way to access them in person. (Not that I'd be in a position to travel to a US Naval Observatory Library a thousand miles away on such a whim...but who knows.) What a fantastic archive of historical sketching resources that would be though. I mean, if you gradually built up a collection that contained historical sketches at an ASOD site, you could also put together a symbiotic archive that points to those works by observer, object, object type, date, and so on.


Jeremy,

You don't have to go all the way to the USNO--you're closer to California. I took these pics of public info displays when I visited Mt Wilson two years ago. I think there is a wealth of drawings of all types archived and gathering dust.

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#21 Special Ed

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 06:49 PM

They made drawings of planets at Mt Wilson, too.

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#22 Sidewinder

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 03:29 AM

Hi people!
I've followed this thread at the beginning, but by now, I've somehow lost track. I've been pretty busy over the last few weeks, due to an examination, I'll write tomorrow.
I think the idea for an "Astronomy Picture of the Day" is excellent, still, there is someone gonna be necessary to set up the website - I've just scanned through the thread quickly right now, is there someone, who might take over the technical part of this project?
Server space, programming the website, maintaining it?
I'd be always glad to help, unfortunately my knowledge in html and databases is very limited...
I've followed along the discussion about copyrights, I am not quite sure, what exactly triggered it, but I think it is referring to the use of the historical sketches?
Well, I'd say, as far as I know, as long as you provide all the information about where you obtained a sketch and who it belongs to, there shouldn't be any problems, should there?

Well, I am not really up to date right now, but I think the idea is great, I hope, it's gonna get going, would surely be an interesting project!

Sebastian

#23 kraterkid

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 11:15 AM

Thanks for your excellent feedback, Erika, Sally, Michael and Sebastian! :rainbow:

Erika, thank you for the copyright link and the positive response! :D

Sally, thanks! :) Wonderful info regarding the copyright symbol. © Richard Handy 2007 hehe! :grin:

Michael, that is really cool, can you imagine what beautiful sketches may be sitting around in storage and archives throughout the world. We need to preserve and display these fine historical works. As they say, you don't really understand the present or comprehend the future until you know the past. Great examples, thanks! ;)

Sebastian, thanks! :D
And that is indeed an accurate picture of where we are at right now with respect to the project. Something that worries me is the time requirement per day to maintain a calendrical site such as ASOD. My daily business and sketching schedule places tight constraints on my time. While I might be able to devote a couple of hours to site administration a day, however, I'm not sure if that would be enough to keep the site rolling along smoothly. Many here are faced with the same contraints so we'd either have to ask for webmaster volunteers or rotate admin duties every couple of months among several artists. I kind of like that option but I don't really know how practical it would be. What do you think?

Thanks to everyone. It really helps to recieve this valuable support and analysis. :waytogo:

#24 Dee

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 12:24 PM

This is a very interesting idea, yes all round on this one

Dee

#25 Sidewinder

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 01:27 PM

Hi folks!
Well, I'd say we gotta organize all of this systematically: I think the concept of the site is more or less clear: the presentation of a sketch and additional description (historical and scientific data, interesting facts, sketching annotations) on a regular basis, daily, at the beginning maybe weekly, depending on the demand. The sketches may either be historical sketches or newly drawn ones from sketchers all over the world. There might be an archive for old sketches of the day / week.
That's at least how I understood it!
So next thing, above anything else, would be the concept for a website and someone who has the knowledge and the ability to set it up.
I think once the concept of the website clear, we can also discuss, how we'd want to maintain it.
Personally, I'd think that it would be possible to maintain the website with a few people switching or sharing moderator duties. After all, I wouldn't set it up as a forum anyways, maybe a possibility for people to comment on the presented drawings, but not a complete board - thus you wouldn't need a whole army of moderators and admins to control content and behaviour, anyways. I think it would strip down moderator duties to an acceptable level.

Well, I am curious, how it's all gonna turn out.

Sebastian






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